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Posted: 10/6/2004 7:29:02 PM EST
So...went to the range with several boxes of M855. Shot several hundred rounds just fine. I was loving it since it was my first time using the rifle. My friend comes to meet me, brings 'ammo' for himself. He went to the sports store and got a ton of Wolf .223. About 100 rounds in, and the gun pretty much stopped doing everything its supposed to. Wouldnt extract from mag, wouldn't properly cycle, wouldnt hold bolt open...everything you can imagine.

Went home, cleaned the hell out of it, went back to the range; 200more rounds of surplus and Im still smiling.

NOTE TO SELF: WOLF IS FOR THE AK.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:22:35 PM EST
Note to self: A well maintained firearm equals a reliable firearm.

I think to properly evaluate Wolf ammunition, you'd need to start with a clean & properly lubricated gun. But I don't mind if my opinion does not change your opinion. I think you'll use what works for you and that's fine.

Congratulations on your purchase.

Sincerely,
Craig
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:34:46 PM EST


Don't step in it!

MT
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:37:07 PM EST
I have been using Wolf for a short time now, and have used about 2,000 rounds through my Colts and ArmaLites and I haven't had any problems.

Is your rifle oiled up?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:39:09 PM EST
He used the old stuff. He doesn't know it because he hasn't done the research on it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:51:06 PM EST
Sounds like your gun has problems. I have fired wolf through all types of uppers and have had 0 problems. I still have 3-4k of the old stuff and it works fine for plinking.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:38:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:42:44 AM EST
Simple answer. Stay away from Wolf ammo for your AR.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:45:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:58:37 AM EST
I wouldnt keep a rifle that couldn't shoot wolf. It is about all I practice w/ now. -Justin
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:02:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:34:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 3:38:28 AM EST by CKxx]

Originally Posted By ALPHA9000:
He used the old stuff. He doesn't know it because he hasn't done the research on it.



Please recall that my friend showed up with it. Also, my rifle had been used once at the time. It has been cleaned/lubed well since this happened, so ill give the crap one more try. Do you wolf proponants at least agree that it dies burn fairly ditry?

Also, craig, nice name.

-Craig.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:38:19 AM EST
I can,t get any of my ARs to work with Wolf, My Daewoo eats it just fine though.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:45:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By CKxx:
Please recall that my friend showed up with it. Also, my rifle had been used once at the time. It has been cleaned/lubed well since this happened, so ill give the crap one more try. Do you wolf proponants at least agree that it dies burn fairly ditry?



Relatively speaking, it is a little dirtier than others. There certainly are people who have problems with Wolf; I also feel sorry for those people, as they have to buy ammo quite a bit more expensive for a rifle that SHOULD be able to shoot it.

I've shot over a thousand rounds of the lacquered stuff in one weekend with no cleaning in between with 0 malfunctions FWIW. The only failure EVER in my rifles was a single stuck case of Silver Bear, easily tapped out with a cleaning rod.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:37:01 AM EST
Hi guys,
I have 3 semi & 2 FA Bushmasters & Colts along with 10 different uppers. Wolf burns dirty and it smells bad, but it has always worked as blasting ammo. I will usually fire about 500 rounds between cleanings and I can not remember a stoppage. And my Bushmaster Varminter will shoot the FMJ Wolf into 1.25 inches @100yds, perfect for turkeys in Texas.
But I can not say the same about Wolf .45 ACP in Glocks & Thompsons. I tried a case of .45 and will not buy it again. It had DANGEROUSLY inconsistent headspacing! Use what works in your weapon, but a high quality AR should work with Wolf .223.
Carey
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:03:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 5:06:26 AM EST by SHIPSNIPE1]

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Note to self:

(1) Vietnam era XM16E1 stoppages were a leadership problem -- they only happened in poorly led units where the officers and NCOs didn't inspect their troops rifles and so the troops didn't clean them. Lack of cleaning equipment is a leadership, not supply issue! Yeah, the ammo was dirty blah, blah, blah. When the Army investigation was in progress it was common to find rifles in Army and Marine units where it was barely possible to see down the bore, etc. Anyone telling you different based on personal experience was, frankly, in a route step unit. If they were officers or NCOs they were personally responsible.

-- Chuck



Wasn't part of the problem the fact that the military was using the wrong powder?

P.S.: Lack of equipment is always a supply issue. I'm somewhat new here but I'm not new to the military.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:59:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Agcsy:
Sounds like your gun has problems. I have fired wolf through all types of uppers and have had 0 problems. I still have 3-4k of the old stuff and it works fine for plinking.



Gotta agree with you on this one. I've gone through about 3-4000 rds (guessing) of wolf through 2 different AR's with 0 ammo related failures (both J&T "kit" guns). I would personally be very wary of a rifle that dosent shoot whatever ammo I give it.

Simple reason: If and when TSHTF, are you gonna be able to "pick and choose" your ammo? Unless you've got the mother of all stock piles, the answer is NO.

Be sure to properly clean/lube your rifle and if that doesnt help, find out whats wrong with your AR.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:30:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 7:31:35 AM EST by StealthyBlagga]

Originally Posted By davidp14:
I would personally be very wary of a rifle that dosent shoot whatever ammo I give it.



Guys, Wolf may work in some rifles and not others, but I don't think its fair to assert that somehow this makes the "no Wolf" rifles less desirable. The fact is, a parallel walled case like 5.56x45 is not a good match with steel cases (whether coated or not) because the different expansion characteristics cause excessive drag during extraction. This is not a problem with 7.62x39 because the case is tapered.

Some of you MAY be lucky, but my guess is that there is a fine line between succes and failure. I suspect that, even if your rifle eats Wolf OK, you are putting a lot more stress on some critical components (notably the extractor). For this reason, even though my SHTF rifle can handle Wolf, I do not use it in this rifle because I don't want to take the risk of something breaking. Of course, its a different matter for a rifle that is reserved only for plinking.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:35:37 AM EST
I agree with Chuck. We kept ours clean they kept on working.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:57:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 7:59:29 AM EST by davidp14]
Ive heard about the undue stress stuff, and you may be right. But then again, with the $100's I saved, I can buy a dozen extractors if thats the problem.

ETA:

I should add that I dont shoot wolf exclusivly but, it sure is nice to save a few bucks now and then by using it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:26:06 PM EST
Posting a thread that says "Wolf made my gun Jam" is like posting a thread that says "I hit my hand with a Hammer and Pain resulted".
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:41:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By SHIPSNIPE1:

Wasn't part of the problem the fact that the military was using the wrong powder?




..Thats what i was loosly refering to. The dirty burning powder.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:01:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:29:06 PM EST
just finished putting 500rds through my M1S car w/ 0 problems, and have put 9k rds or so through my A2 bushy only one failure and that was a blown primer, if your rifle is having problems- clean it and lube the shit outta the carrier,bolt and take a bottle of clp to the range with you and give it a squirt every 300rds or so and you probably wont have any more failures.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:40:23 PM EST
Chrome barrel ?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:33:52 PM EST
Or match barrel?

I put Wolf through my Bushmaster Shorty and my Colt SP1 but I am not willing to put it in my DPMS DCM AR.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:35:22 PM EST
Works well in my rifles!

By the way, hello, I'm new here.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:09:49 PM EST
Jammaster-15?
For a minute there I thought this thread was about 60's vintage Fender Jazzmaster guitars.....ECS
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:56:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By ECS:
Jammaster-15?
For a minute there I thought this thread was about 60's vintage Fender Jazzmaster guitars.....ECS



HAHAH
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:28:39 PM EST
The only problem I’ve EVER had with Wolf Ammo is their horrific odor.

Shoots nice, groups nice, you can’t reload it but that isn’t too much of a biggie. The price is Very nice, but the smell is enough to confuse a near sighted skunk.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:11:54 AM EST
7.5 cases through my M4forgery. only one fail to eject. yup, it was the extractor. I think I can afford a new extractor every 7.5 cases.

I keep it clean and inspect it after cleaning for wear and tear.

shoot it up! keep it clean!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:39:30 PM EST
only problem i am having with wolf is i one of my rifles has new BC and its short stroking on wolf. i swap around BCs and problem follows the carrier. i've run 400 rounds of wolf between the last 2 weekends. if your rifle doesn't run on wolf its the rifle not the ammo
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:36:03 PM EST
i've shot 780rds of wolf both old and new in the last couple months with only 2 failures.
1. bolt did not lock back. it was a magazine issue since it locked back with all of my other mags. also would not lock back manually when the rifle/mag was empty.
2. failure to feed. my mag double fed.

those are the only failures i've ever had in close to 4k rds total through my AR. i will keep buying wolf, i really can't afford to spend the extra $40-50 per 500rds of xm193.

surprisingly both mags had green followers.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 2:49:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chuck:
Lack of equipment is a leadership/command problem, not a supply problem. Especially something as simple as cleaning equipment.

The same "wrong powder" ammo and the same beat up XM16E1 rifles soldiered on long after the "crisis" was over. Funny how these same rifles and same ammunition suddenly worked when the troops cleaned their rifles.

-- Chuck



So Calcium Carbonate was not the issue all along.

That's what I've always heard it blamed on.

Proper cleaning and maintenance is required.

Danny



Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:38:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:03:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By CKxx:
So...went to the range with several boxes of M855. Shot several hundred rounds just fine. I was loving it since it was my first time using the rifle. My friend comes to meet me, brings 'ammo' for himself. He went to the sports store and got a ton of Wolf .223. About 100 rounds in, and the gun pretty much stopped doing everything its supposed to. Wouldnt extract from mag, wouldn't properly cycle, wouldnt hold bolt open...everything you can imagine.

Went home, cleaned the hell out of it, went back to the range; 200more rounds of surplus and Im still smiling.

NOTE TO SELF: WOLF IS FOR THE AK.



I believe Oly Arms has a note on their site specifically warning against use of laquered ammo due harder extraction and premature extractor wear/breakage. I understand the Wolf .45 auto is particularly hard on extractors.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:09:23 PM EST
another newbie with a sub 100 post count educating us. if Wolf doesnt run in your rifle....then your rifle is fucked up. all my ARs eat it like candy because i build with quality parts and i keep my weapons clean. even if i believed the bullshit about extractor wear youre still money ahead considering you can get Wolf for $95 a case at a gunshow. whenever someone posts about how all they shoot is XM193 or Q3131a it makes me laugh, they're either rich, stupid or they dont shoot much. i kill 3 cases a month and if i was only shooting XM193 that would be like another car payment...F that!!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:43:23 PM EST
I have fired over 15000 rounds of Wolf through my M16 with only one round refusing to fire. It turned out to be a bad primer.

Rats
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:58:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 8:01:35 PM EST by El_Roto]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
another newbie with a sub 100 post count educating us.



Since when does post count equate knowledge? He's exactly right on both counts.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:20:29 AM EST
I went through another 500rds of the 55gr FMJ powder coated Wolf yesterday..........Zero problems.......as usual. I even got a 2" group at 125yds! (for me, thats great)

I remember reading in one of my gun rags a few months ago there was a write up about either a Les Baer AR, or a Wilson Combat, and they got sub one inch groups with wolf, they reported no failures. The Wolf even did better than a few of the other "low-end" ammos.

If I can find the issue I'll post a copy of the comparison table.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:50:19 PM EST
CKxx

My initial experience with Wolf was similar to yours, only I started with a clean, well-lubed rifle.
And just to make sure the first time wasn't a fluke, I repeated the process two more times.

But the results were the same every time. My rifle was far dirtier after 100 rds of Wolf Poly than after 300 rds of almost anything else, my shots with a 3-9 x 40 scope were all over the target at 100 yds, the powder smelled as though it had been made from a couple of pairs of Joe Stalin's old socks, and at least one round jammed in the chamber each time. Therefore I have the same opinion of Wolf as you do.

When I asked my gunsmith for his opinion on the subject, he said that in general he has found the most consistent results are obtained when one uses the kind of ammo made in the country of the firearm's origin, because that's the kind of ammo that was expected to be used. This man has more years of experience with firearms than many members here have existed on the face of the earth, so you can imagine whose opinion I am likely to respect.

If others find that Wolf works in their rifles, that's fine.
If it doesn't work with yours, that's fine also.

Every rifle is different, and it takes experimentation to find what works.
That's part of the fun.

Find what ammo works for you and your rifle, and stick with it.
And don't be surprised if your next rifle has a different appetite.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:21:43 PM EST
My Oly loves it!

$101./1K to my door. Nuff said.
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