Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 4/3/2008 10:26:12 AM EST
Just built an AR15 with a 16" Bushy upper RRA carrier, and DPMS lpk. I put eighty rounds through it of UMC and, the cheap federal stuff. This weekend I picked up some Wolf ammo which i've shot before in my mini-14. For some reason rounds would fire and then the next round would not strip off the top. One empty cartridge also got stuck in the barrel. Is this a problem with the batch of ammo I got or with my gun. It seems that it is the ammo since I didn't have problems before. I am using the Brownells mags with Magpul II generation followers.
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 10:42:45 AM EST
The bolt closed on an empty chamber?

That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.

Also, get an O ring, or some kind of extractor spring upgrade when you shoot wolf ammo. It will help avoid any extraction problems.


Link Posted: 4/3/2008 10:50:17 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By rippersde50:
The bolt closed on an empty chamber?

That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.

Also, get an O ring, or some kind of extractor spring upgrade when you shoot wolf ammo. It will help avoid any extraction problems.




Correct bolt closed on empty chamber. Where can I find an O-ring or extractor upgrade. Will an H buffer help as well?
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 10:59:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/3/2008 11:00:00 AM EST by rippersde50]

Originally Posted By skiking8515:

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
The bolt closed on an empty chamber?

That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.

Also, get an O ring, or some kind of extractor spring upgrade when you shoot wolf ammo. It will help avoid any extraction problems.




Correct bolt closed on empty chamber. Where can I find an O-ring or extractor upgrade. Will an H buffer help as well?


No an H buffer won't help. It's used to lighten recoil. It basically slows the bolt unlocking procces and slows the bolt carrier down. You just need to shoot more good ammo, like XM193 for a while to break everything in.

lube it well also.

Top of the page.
www.pkfirearms.com/store/get_items.aspx?type=0&term=52
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 11:14:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/3/2008 11:15:18 AM EST by C-4]

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.


+1

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's usually more common with a carbine gas system because of the shorter dwell time.

You need to buy Fed XM193, Win Q3131A or Prvi Partisan M193. That will solve the problem.
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 11:32:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 3:13:35 PM EST
Its the wolf ammo. the steel casing tend to be junk. They crack and swell easily and can tear upon extraction. Spend the money and get proper ammunition. When 1 out of 10 fails you no money was really saved.
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 5:19:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Btodd737:
Its the wolf ammo. the steel casing tend to be junk. They crack and swell easily and can tear upon extraction. Spend the money and get proper ammunition. When 1 out of 10 fails you no money was really saved.


My Sabre and my Dad's Colt gobble up wolf like no tomorrow. If the rifle is built to spec, after being broken in (100-200 rounds for my Sabre to stop short-stroking 1/3 rounds of 55gr MC Wolf) then you should be able to shoot it without any more ills than more cleaning being required. Both of our weapons that I have tried wolf in a 20" rifles. If anything, THOSE should be the ones not feeding it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 9:06:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 9:20:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dano523:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.


+1

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's usually more common with a carbine gas system because of the shorter dwell time.

You need to buy Fed XM193, Win Q3131A or Prvi Partisan M193. That will solve the problem.




No, Bushmaster chambers on the tighter side to promote accuracy, and the chambers don't due well with coated ammo until they have been self-polished through live fire with brass case rounds (at least 500, but sometime is can take up to iK).



Same with Armalite's.. I had to shoot at least 500 round's befor I could shoot wolf.. and I have not had one prob with wolf.. but I have only shot about 400 rounds of it.. But my fav ammo is 69gr. Match ammo.. Put's me right out at 800m on target.. it is optimized for 1/9 twist.. if you go any higher then that depending on the gun after about 300M you will be way off target.. but it does kinda depend on the gun to.. I mean I shoot 55gr Black hill's and hit pretty dead on about an open hand at 500m but with the 62gr I can tell it is better and with the 69gr.. it really is the best ammo you can get for a 1/9 twist... I pretty much just shoot the 62gr wolf at no more then 300 yards.. and it is still right on target.. wolf is really good cheap range ammo.. but like I said shoot at least 500 rounds of brass out of your rifle first and keep it VERY clean when shooting wolf ammo... well any ammo...
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 9:28:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/8/2008 6:34:19 AM EST
thanks for the help guys. I guess i'll get some good ammo and then shoot the wolf stuff later.

-seth
Link Posted: 4/8/2008 8:05:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/8/2008 12:42:50 PM EST by Dano523]

Originally Posted By skiking8515:
thanks for the help guys. I guess i'll get some good ammo and then shoot the wolf stuff later.

-seth


Don't shoot wolf or the other russian ammo in your ar15. They use different triple based powder that burns much dirty than other types.
The Steel doesn't mold to the chamber allowing for gas to leak, lower pressure ammo.
On the longer barrel ar15 the gas tube will gum up[s/].


Edited by Dano523 to correct it a bit.
The coating on the ammo is what is scrapped off at loading,unloading, and this powderized fouling is what causes the problems in tighter chamber rigs. As for pressure, the ammo is loaded to 223 standards, not 5.56 Nato standards. The soft steel case will seal off just as well as brass case ammo. Regarding the gas tube, you could use it to transfer pine tar if you like; at 35K + PSI of hot pressure going down the tube at cycle, the inside of the SS tube is self cleaning.
Link Posted: 4/8/2008 2:35:14 PM EST
I used an RCBS Precision Mic to check the difference between brass cased ammo and Wolf MC that I fired in my Bushmaster M4. The cases both mic'ed the same as far as expansion, so the Wolf expaned and sealed just as good as the brass cased ammo.
Link Posted: 4/9/2008 8:16:15 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By COLT:
height=8
Originally Posted By skiking8515:
thanks for the help guys. I guess i'll get some good ammo and then shoot the wolf stuff later.

-seth


Don't shoot wolf or the other russian ammo in your ar15. They use different triple based powder that burns much dirty than other types.
The Steel doesn't mold to the chamber allowing for gas to leak, lower pressure ammo.
On the longer barrel ar15 the gas tube will gum up[s/]. he


alright so now i'm confused. i got the feeling that other than being a bit dirty, the russian stuff was ok to shoot. i've shot it in my mini before and had a bit of trouble with cases sticking in the chamber i assume because of either the soft steel case or the laquer. i can see that the ammo is quite a bit dirtier than other stuff that i've shot. so is there a final word, or no?
Link Posted: 4/9/2008 10:34:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By skiking8515:

Originally Posted By COLT:

Originally Posted By skiking8515:
thanks for the help guys. I guess i'll get some good ammo and then shoot the wolf stuff later.

-seth


Don't shoot wolf or the other russian ammo in your ar15. They use different triple based powder that burns much dirty than other types.
The Steel doesn't mold to the chamber allowing for gas to leak, lower pressure ammo.
On the longer barrel ar15 the gas tube will gum up[s/].


Edited by Dano523 to correct it a bit.
The coating on the ammo is what is scrapped off at loading,unloading, and this powderized fouling is what causes the problems in tighter chamber rigs. As for pressure, the ammo is loaded to 223 standards, not 5.56 Nato standards. The soft steel case will seal off just as well as brass case ammo. Regarding the gas tube, you could use it to transfer pine tar if you like; at 35K + PSI of hot pressure going down the tube at cycle, the inside of the SS tube is self cleaning.


alright so now i'm confused. i got the feeling that other than being a bit dirty, the russian stuff was ok to shoot. i've shot it in my mini before and had a bit of trouble with cases sticking in the chamber i assume because of either the soft steel case or the laquer. i can see that the ammo is quite a bit dirtier than other stuff that i've shot. so is there a final word, or no?


Don't be. It was just bad advice. There are a lot of people here who shoot it. I'd be more worried about remington UMC at the moment
Link Posted: 4/9/2008 12:54:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 1:59:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2008 2:01:29 AM EST by bryan0928]

Originally Posted By rippersde50:

Originally Posted By skiking8515:

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
The bolt closed on an empty chamber?

That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.

Also, get an O ring, or some kind of extractor spring upgrade when you shoot wolf ammo. It will help avoid any extraction problems.




Correct bolt closed on empty chamber. Where can I find an O-ring or extractor upgrade. Will an H buffer help as well?


No an H buffer won't help. It's used to lighten recoil. It basically slows the bolt unlocking procces and slows the bolt carrier down. You just need to shoot more good ammo, like XM193 for a while to break everything in.

lube it well also.

Top of the page.
www.pkfirearms.com/store/get_items.aspx?type=0&term=52


Well, I'm still learning, but won't an H buffer help with his extraction problems? It lengthens the unlocking time which would allow the chamber pressure to fall off a little more before the extraction process begins. Is that right?

May not be neccesary, but I think it should help.

As everyone else has said, break her in
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 8:31:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 8:31:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 1:57:40 PM EST
not to resurrect an old thread, but I just did some additional shooting this weekend. I purchased some prvi partisan ammo from my dealer marked (m193). I am pretty sure it is prvi because it is in a small white box. anyway i had short-stroking issues with that ammo as well. some of my friends were shooting my gun so i let them shoot my 20rds of TAP which cycled with no problems. so far i have shot federal AE, winchester white box, and remington UMC with zero malfunctions. today i ordered some fed xm193 and and winchester m855. hopefully this works. my gun was fairly clean and lubed. what else should i try. are my issues purely with ammo?

seth
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 7:33:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/28/2008 7:43:23 AM EST by Dano523]
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:11:52 PM EST
I put another (5) 30rd mags of Wolf MC 55gr polymer and (2) 30rd mags of brass reloaded ammo through my Bushmaster M4 this afternoon. No problems, issues, malfunctions, broken parts, etc.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 6:18:59 PM EST
I had a similar problem with my new Stag 16 inch upper. The guys on here advised me to install the o-ring. I lubed it up really well also, and next time out not a single problem. The second time out I was using M193, so I went back out and shot the Wolf that I was neglecting since I thought it might be at fault and I shot 250 rounds with no failures.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 6:37:09 PM EST
I've had the same issue with a recently purchased M4. I also tried Wolf, with horrible results. I changed out three different bolt and bolt carriers, basically the same result with each. Not sure the manf. of the ammo, but I switched to a green tipped ammo and it ran through it like a freight train.

At this point, I have about three hundred rounds through it. Today I tried Wolf again, with the same issues. Guess I'll keep using green tips for a while.

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:49:48 PM EST
Wolf ammo sound great !!

It forces you to train for:
Failure to extract
Clearing jams
Case head seperation
Not to mention it brings you closer to your weapon due to the extra cleaning required

You don't get these extra benifits from good brass stuff.

How come people don't ask "Is Winchester ammo ok to use in my AR"?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:07:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By 4A15:
Wolf ammo sound great !!

It forces you to train for:
Failure to extract
Clearing jams
Case head seperation
Not to mention it brings you closer to your weapon due to the extra cleaning required

You don't get these extra benifits from good brass stuff.

How come people don't ask "Is Winchester ammo ok to use in my AR"?


Never had any of those issues.

Extra cleaning? What extra cleaning?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:34:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 12:01:56 PM EST by Dano523]
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:50:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
That'd be short stroking. Not uncommon with Wolf ammo. You might want to break in your rifle some more before you try wolf.


+1

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's usually more common with a carbine gas system because of the shorter dwell time.

You need to buy Fed XM193, Win Q3131A or Prvi Partisan M193. That will solve the problem.


Actually it should be less common on carbines.
Shorter distance from chamber to gas tube=higher pressure
Longer distance from gas port to muzzle on carbine than rifle=longer dwell time.

Dwell time = time gas system is under pressure until bullet exits barrel.
Top Top