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Posted: 10/16/2004 10:04:12 PM EDT
I bought 500 rounds of winchester 223. They are loose packed in the white box. It came 20 rounds per box. The brass on this ammo is discolored around the neck, I asked the guy why that was and he told me that it was becuase it is heat treated for strength. Is this true, and is this good ammo? Thanks.

Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:08:59 PM EDT
The discoloration is normal.

Ammo Oracle
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:10:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MST2:
I bought 500 rounds of winchester 223. They are loose packed in the white box. It came 20 rounds per box. The brass on this ammo is discolored around the neck, I asked the guy why that was and he told me that it was becuase it is heat treated for strength. Is this true, and is this good ammo? Thanks.

it's called annealing, it makes the brass less brittle in the neck area. Annealing is a Good Thing.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:13:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
The discoloration is normal.

Ammo Oracle

I disagree with this part from ammo oracle:

"Just about all necked rounds use a heat process called "annealing" to shape the neck of the casing. "

Annealing is used to make the brass less brittle so shaping will be easier, it doesn't cause shaping
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:16:01 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies guys, I just wanted to make sure it was good stuff. I am still learning when it comes to AR's.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 10:53:23 AM EDT
The reason you may never have noticed the annealing before is that in most commercial ammo, the discoloration is polished off before the case is loaded. US military specs, and I suspect on most other militaries as well, the specs call for the discoloration to show; to extablish that the cases were, in fact, annealed.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 11:19:57 AM EDT
^ Or the fact that to get to the lowest possible bidder they don't pay for the polishing.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:57:14 PM EDT
Hmm, can you tell the difference between an annealed round/case that has been tumbled and a non-annealed round case that has been tumbled?

I'll take the discolouration any time.

The annealing process makes the brass less brittle, and eases extraction. Once you have a case separate just behind the shoulder and then jam another round into it, you appreciate discolouration.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:50:40 PM EDT
So I take it that I got some good ammo? Winchester white box must be good stuff?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:54:47 PM EDT
worked for me with no problems but it seemed like 1 out of 15 was a flyer
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:55:33 PM EDT
How does it shoot out of a bushmaster 16" carbine?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:00:36 PM EDT
the ammo will shoot fine from a 16 inch bushmonster
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:17:04 PM EDT
I actually get pretty good groups with white box w/ a 14.5" bushmonster.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:20:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:21:12 PM EDT
Good ammo.

Gander Mountain just had it on sale. 79.95 for 500 rounds.

Shoots very well for me.

Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:58:54 AM EDT
Only stuff I shot when I first got my Bushmaster was Winchester. I probally put 500 rounds of winchester through my gun. Winchester made my gun super dirty though, nothing terrible but it was dirty and gritty after 30 rounds. So I started looking for another ammo.

I got some XM193, 500 rounds for $80 at a local gun show. www.dealerease.net/catalog/product.asp?pid=1010956&ret_id=373508. I can go to the range and shoot 200+ rounds of it and my gun will look almost as clean as when I went down there. It also seems to shoot a more acurate grouping in my gun that the winchester but that could also be because im getting more used to shooting my AR.

Other than the mess it made of my gun I never had any problem with the winchester.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:46:52 AM EDT
PMP Ammo also has the same discoloration.

No Bigie. It shoots about as well as most any other ammo.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 12:41:38 PM EDT
I have been using Winchester white box , with a couple hundred through a Colt 20" with no problems. This article is dated 9-28-01. My case is Q3131A-Lot SC12................. "Winchester Ammo

I'll make this brief. For the reloader, Winchester brass is usually not the first pick. It's not mine. But until recently we have had no problems with Winchester ammunition. As of late however, we have been seeing a great many problems related to oversized brass and blowing primers. Please take this warning seriously. We have nothing against the Winchester company, as a matter of fact had used Winchester ammo for years as our official testing ammo, but there seems to be a large batch out there that simply does not work well.

Recommendation: Stay away from Winchester ammo, unless you are getting the really good match grade stuff, at least for now.

What ammo should I use?

We recommend that you use brass cased domestically produced new production ammo only. There are many manufactures and types of ammo that meet these specifications, so your options are large. But remember this, any autoloading rifle is only as good as the ammo and magazines you use in it. I will never understand why a person would spend $800- $1,000 on a new firearms, and then go out and buy a whole case of the cheapest garbage ammo he can find, and then complain because his rifle does not work properly when firing it. To me this is a bigger mystery than Bigfoot or the Bermuda Triangle. Use junk ammo, get junk results. Use quality ammo, get quality results.

Fine Print Warning!

We have all heard this before, but it applies here as well; always read the fine print. There are several well known manufacturers of ammunition that also sell ammo that is manufactured over-seas and then imported to the US. Additionally, most major manufacturers offer "less expensive" lines of ammunition bearing their factory names. I will not single out specific brands other than the Winchester which has caused many a problem, there's no getting around that.

The thing that these major brands have going for them is the name recognition. People see names they recognize, and they by the ammo with confidence thinking it is a good quality ammo. But the fact remains, that this is not always the case. CHECK THE FINE PRINT!

I have some ammo in my hand, sold under a major brand name label. I have 6 boxes of ammo, all from the same manufacturer, and they manufactured in 5 different foreign countries and imported back into the US. Italy, R.P. (Haven't figured this one out yet), RSA (Republic of South Africa), R.O. Korea, are all represented on this list.


So what is quality ammo?

Here is a short (incomplete) list of quality ammunitions in no particular order:

Ammunition that has been used by Oly Arms as test fire ammo Ammo that may cause reliability problems *
Black Hills (new production)
PMC (US Manufactured only)
Remington (new, non-UMC brand)
American Eagle Wolf
PMC (imported ammo only: READ the fine print)
Reloaded ammo if not properly re-sized
Winchester (imported only: read the fine print)

(*Based on customer reported reliability problems)" WWW.OLYARMS.COM/AMMOWARNING.HTML

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