I was at Bass Pro yesterday and noticed some 50rd boxes of Winchester white box USA223R1F. They said "Made in Israel" on them. The only Israeli stuff I was aware of was the Q3131A. Is this the same stuff or different?

Speculation in some prior posts was that IMI was contracted by Winchester to help keep their US civilian market supply chain flowing. Recollection of posts from users was that it was good ammo, but not of the Q3131A flavor.

I think they are both made by IMI, if you take a look at a box of Q3131A 5.56 and a box of the 223 stuff they both say made in Israel have
I hope this helps

It is not as fast  as Q3131a, but it is good ammo. Shoot it up!

Olympic ams has a warning on their website.  They are saying as of late they are exceeding presures.  Ive had one blown primer.  Thats it.  It is hot.  Ive got alot to shot when I get better.

Huh??

Quoted: Huh??

I'm with him.  WTH are you talking about Olympic ammo in a Winchester thread?

FWIW - My experience with the Made in Israel bulk packs is it looks, feels, and shoots to the same POI as Q3131A.  Others have chronographed it at 100-150fps slower.

Good stuff.

Quoted: Quoted: Huh?? hr I'm with him.  WTH are you talking about Olympic ammo in a Winchester thread? FWIW - My experience with the Made in Israel bulk packs is it looks, feels, and shoots to the same POI as Q3131A.  Others have chronographed it at 100-150fps slower. Good stuff.

He is talking about the Olympic Arms web site www.olyarms.com. They have a link for ammo warnings. It doesn't talk about what kinds of Winchester ammo, it just generalizes it by saying that the brass is not the best and to only buy match grade ammo from them. They also have a list later on that same page that states to buy only USA made ammo from Winchester as well as some other of their favorite brands heir. Of course Olympic Arms guns I believe have only match grade barrels, so that could be why they are having some probelms with certain ammo.

Check out the page at www.olyarms.com/ammowarning.htm or just go to their main page listed above and click on the link ammo warnings.

I personally like Winchester ammo, I have purchased multiple boxes and have no problems. But as we all know the type of ammo you shoot depends on what you gun likes, so pick what works for you and go with it. hair.gif

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Huh?? I'm with him.  WTH are you talking about Olympic ammo in a Winchester thread? FWIW - My experience with the Made in Israel bulk packs is it looks, feels, and shoots to the same POI as Q3131A.  Others have chronographed it at 100-150fps slower. Good stuff. He is talking about the Olympic Arms web site www.olyarms.com. They have a link for ammo warnings. It doesn't talk about what kinds of Winchester ammo, it just generalizes it by saying that the brass is not the best and to only buy match grade ammo from them. They also have a list later on that same page that states to buy only USA made ammo from Winchester as well as some other of their favorite brands and of their non-favorite brands . Of course Olympic Arms guns I believe have only match grade barrels, so that could be why they are having some probelms with certain ammo. Check out the page at www.olyarms.com/ammowarning.htm or just go to their main page listed above and click on the link ammo warnings. I personally like Winchester ammo, I have purchased multiple boxes and have no problems. But as we all know the type of ammo you shoot depends on what you gun likes, so pick what works for you and go with it.

What He said!

This is from the Oly Arms website, it's very vague:

Winchester Ammo I'll make this brief. For the reloader, Winchester brass is usually not the first pick. It's not mine. But until recently we have had no problems with Winchester ammunition. As of late however, we have been seeing a great many problems related to oversized brass and blowing primers. Please take this warning seriously. We have nothing against the Winchester company, as a matter of fact had used Winchester ammo for years as our official testing ammo, but there seems to be a large batch out there that simply does not work well. Recommendation: Stay away from Winchester ammo, unless you are getting the really good match grade stuff, at least for now.

Quoted:

LMAO!

No problem here.  Come over and Ill give you a steak foe that eye.

BTW.  I picked up a box at wally world and they are still made in Israel, but they look noticably different than when they first changed from USA brand.  They closely resembled the old USA as they were not anealed, they had the old style crimp the USA had, they were noticably less powerfull.  Personally I like the other one better, as I stated I only had one blown primer and I seemed to be identical to Q3131A with exception of the headstamp.  If there is anyone out there who has chronyed the three:  Old USA White Box, New Israelie's mentioned above, and the Q3131A, I would like to know what
you came up with.

The Israelie brass (Winchester headstamp) seemed to by more accucate with my pet handload than the old USA brass.

Just thought you would like to know.

They are overpressured.  They are not NATO hot but still hot.  I had several pireced primers with some I shot.  Then I made the mistake of reloading the brass.  It appears the brass is either NATO spec or just has a drastically reduced internal volume.  I was loading 60gr V-Max and the manuel says the max load should be 25.8 gr of H335.  Well I'm down to 24.8 and still showing pressure signs on the brass and getting pireced primers every so often.  I'm going to try 24.5grs next.  I know I should start low and work up insted of high and work down.  But I started at 25grs which gave me a .8 grain margin and thought is would be ok.