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Posted: 12/27/2002 10:53:53 AM EST
Looking over the forums i dont see wilson combat listed as a somewhat popular or nice ar-15. I am stuck between them and building one myseld using mostly RRA parts. I have not been able to find anything good or bad about this brands ar-15's. I have one of their 45's and i have to say its the nicest feeling and shooting guns i own or have shot. Is it just a price issue? Thanks, Major
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 3:55:34 PM EST
Buying a Wilson is like buying a Rolls Royce: you're just wasting money. IMO, a Wilson won't shoot any better than Colt/Armalite/BM. Their trigger is probably better out-of-the-box but any AR can have a trigger job for $100 or so. While I love their 1911s, IMO the Wilson & Baer AR-15s are a huge waste of money. My .o2
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 4:17:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By BobCole: Buying a Wilson is like buying a Rolls Royce: you're just wasting money.
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I dont agree. You are getting a primo weapon out of the box. You can get a Bushy or a RRA and have a few.....hundred $$ worth of work dont to it and have something along the lines of a Wilson, but it's still not a Wilson. You're paying for a perfect fit and finish, a beautuful trigger and a lifetime guarantee. If you don't have $1200 to drop on a weapon get a Bushy or an RRA and you wont regret it. If you got bank get the Wilson and be sure to let me shoot it! [:D] I shot a Wilson .45 at the range last weekend. The guy said he paid almost $2K for it. That thing was flawless, and shot WAY better than I do. Balance, fit, finish all perfect. That was the easiest shooting pistol I've ever shot. If the quality of the pistols is indicitive of the quality in the rifles, I'd LOVE to have one of each.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 4:28:09 PM EST
A while back there was a lot of wilson AR bashing and it predominantly was the cost.Everyone was saying it wasnt worth the price.I purchased a ut-15 as i replied because it certainly was worth it to me to have everthing i wanted in a AR set up for run and gun matches from one place one time with out the hassle of serching and buying and mixing and matching.For example fluted barrel,gas block instead of sight tower to get in my way,comp solid on the bottom to not kick up dust as much also looking like a A2 flash,flat top,JP trigger,FF forearm,and fit top to bottom like you would expect from a high end wilson.If you want to piece it togerther yourself everyone is correct when they said it would be cheaper.The gun by the way has performed as expected.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 4:39:34 PM EST
The Wilson Combat TPR is a great rifle. Though on the pricey side, it shoots great and has a perfect finish. The manufacturer that is over priced is Fulton-Armory. Although I have the Liberator model, I paid way too much without having any sort of guarantee on how it would shoot.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 5:06:29 PM EST
I have one and am extremely pleased with it. It is top notch. Everyone who has shot it doesn't want to give it back. It is tighter than any stock AR I've seen or owned. When you consider all its custom component parts which include a fluted match bbl, match trigger, tactical brake and forend and all the other top quality parts and a top quality tactical case to boot. Then you add the fact that it is all assembled by first rate smiths and then uniformally packerised or finished to your taste, and then furnished with their guarentee, it's really not overpriced at all. Look you don't NEED a custom Wilson, but if you like the finer things and do not have the time, expertise or inclination to make one yourself, you wont be sorry.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 1:11:16 PM EST
From what i have gathered the wilson gun is a great rifle and like most things you pay for what you get. I do have to say the fit of my 1911 is very nice and it shoots great. Thanks for the info. Major
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 1:31:09 PM EST
I handled a Wilson Combat AR-15 at my local shop. It was nice, trigger was great and had the smoothest charging handle pull. I'll buy one if I ever get the spare cash.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 2:25:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By bvmjethead: You're paying for a perfect fit and finish, a beautuful trigger and a lifetime guarantee. If you don't have $1200 to drop on a weapon get a Bushy or an RRA and you wont regret it. /quote] A) A Wilson costs a whole lot more than $1200. B) Perfect finish? Every gun I own has a scratch or two from use. Why pay a gazillion $$$ & then cry when it's scratched? C) Almost all major mfgrs offer lifetime warranty. Wilson is far from alone on this. D) A good trigger job can be had for $100-150 that is just as good as a Wilson trigger.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 4:10:59 PM EST
Bob: I think the point was that if you put together an AR yourself or had someone put together a custom AR for you, you don't get the security of a factory warranty. Yes Wilsons are pricey but your point doesn't consider that yes, a trigger and hammer group will cost $200 but then it must also be properly installed and Wilsons, as I indicated above, provide a tad more than just a warrantee and trigger/hammer group (match fluted bbl, brake, forged upper/lowers, free floated alum handguard, houge grip, premium parts all profesionally fitted and guarenteed). As for finishes, yes any finish may very well get scratched, but I don't think future wear or scuffing is necessarily the major consideration when choosing a finish. At $1,600.00 they sound pricy but my point being that when you consider the entire package, its not exsessive. You may be able to purchase two stock ars for the same price, but once you begin the "tricking" process you might even end up short and without a warrenty or service dept to turn to. They may not make sense to you or others who are capable smiths, but they sure fit a niche for those want a custom tactical a factory warrantee and service.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 4:15:46 PM EST
Doesn't Wilson only use .223 chambers and not 5.56mm NATO?
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 4:23:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
Originally Posted By BobCole: Buying a Wilson is like buying a Rolls Royce: you're just wasting money.
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I dont agree. You are getting a primo weapon out of the box. You can get a Bushy or a RRA and have a few.....hundred $$ worth of work dont to it and have something along the lines of a Wilson, but it's still not a Wilson. You're paying for a perfect fit and finish, a beautuful trigger and a lifetime guarantee. If you don't have $1200 to drop on a weapon get a Bushy or an RRA and you wont regret it. If you got bank get the Wilson and be sure to let me shoot it! [:D] I shot a Wilson .45 at the range last weekend. The guy said he paid almost $2K for it. That thing was flawless, and shot WAY better than I do. Balance, fit, finish all perfect. That was the easiest shooting pistol I've ever shot. If the quality of the pistols is indicitive of the quality in the rifles, I'd LOVE to have one of each.
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bvmjethead, Wanna shoot my Les Baer and compare...It's up for trade or sale ...a Preban AR or 1200...
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 4:29:00 PM EST
My reciever is marked "Cal. 5.56 MM" Catalog lists them as 5,56/223 I shoot only Mil surplus and only had a problem with some PMP which was apparantly attributable to a bad batch of the ammo. I had varying accuracy, but when I began experimenting with difft loads came to understand that the accuracy fluctuations were attributable to ammo not the Wilson. NB they also have an accuracy Guarentee on most models.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 4:43:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Robertesq1: My reciever is marked "Cal. 5.56 MM" Catalog lists them as 5,56/223 I shoot only Mil surplus and only had a problem with some PMP which was apparantly attributable to a bad batch of the ammo. I had varying accuracy, but when I began experimenting with difft loads came to understand that the accuracy fluctuations were attributable to ammo not the Wilson. NB they also have an accuracy Guarentee on most models.
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Is the barrel marked? Generally the markings on the receiver are not any real indication of what the rifle is chambered for. The barrel markings are what need to be looked at. When you say mil surplus, what do you mean? South African? Have you tried newly manufactured LC XM193 or Winchester Q3131A? A lot of milsurp ammo has been sitting around for a long time and won't create the chamber pressures that newly manufactured M193 or M855 will give. The .223 chambers will handle the older stuff just fine, but is risky when you use the new military grade stuff. It will, however handle the civilian and law enforcement stuff on the market because they are not loaded as hot. I am not saying you are wrong. Maybe i am. I am just curious if the barrel is marked 5.56 or .223. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 8:21:04 PM EST
Just something I want to say about the so called superior "finish" on the Wilsons. Wilson Combat's Armor Tuff finish is about the worst of the teflon finishes I have ever seen. I had them do a slide for me and one of my firends. The green Armor Tuff started wearing off noticably after a one day combat handgun class. the black on the other gun isnt much better. I have seen two other Wilson pistols and two Wilson ARs, all with the Armor Tuff finish, all showing SERIOUS wear. The trigger is nice, but all it is, is a JP Adjustable trigger. And the 2 Wilsons I have checked out werent any nicer than the JP trigger in my Bushmaster. Please dont ask me what I think about their "Tactical Sighting System" or whatever the heck that monstrosity is called. What a disaster. That thing puts optics up higher than needed and why on earth would you move the rear peep sight away from your eye? Wilson informed me that when they first started building their AR's they used .223 SAAMI chambers. Soon after they switched to the 5.56 milspec chambers. IMHO, the guns are built nicely, but not so nice that I would EVER consider spending that much money on a postban.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:29:53 AM EST
New-arguy: I know you are not a fan of the armor-tuff finish but in all honesty, mine has held up at least as well as any of my packerized weapons. I agree with your comment on their tactical sighting system, but its an extra which they give away (you choose the mount or case - I chose the case). My point only that I do not have the expertise to change the trigger/hammer or build an AR (I just learned how to fully strip my glock -- thanks to DVD tracker). So the Wilson fits the bill in furnishing a "custom tactical." Do you know when Wilson first started building ARs or when they switched from 223 SAMMI to 5.56? Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:59:43 AM EST
knightone: have used South African, Israeli and newly manufactured Winchester Q3131A and alot of other surplus. And for the life of me, I can't find any visable bbl markings (maybe they're under the hand guard??
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:31:29 AM EST
Anyone use the Wilson Scope mount with the built in rear sight?
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 8:49:25 AM EST
I don't know if you guys are aware but Wilson, RRA and Baer uppers and lowers are ALL manufactured by the same company. The same holds true for Baer, Wilson, Nowlin and Chip McCormick model 1911 receivers! Since the AR is more of an "Erector set" then a Model 1911 your mostly paying for the name and a nice finish.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:36:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By AKM: I don't know if you guys are aware but Wilson, RRA and Baer uppers and lowers are ALL manufactured by the same company. The same holds true for Baer, Wilson, Nowlin and Chip McCormick model 1911 receivers! Since the AR is more of an "Erector set" then a Model 1911 your mostly paying for the name and a nice finish.
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Not quite true. Baer bought alot of very expensive equipment and now makes all of his own parts including 1911 and AR-type receivers. Wilson was using RRA rifle parts for a while. Most custom 'smiths use Caspian 1911 frames as there are only a couple places in the country with the equipment to make slides and frames. The damascus steel slide on my .45 was machined by Caspian. Les Baer could do it on his machines, but I doubt that he would.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:33:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Robertesq1: New-arguy: My point only that I do not have the expertise to change the trigger/hammer or build an AR (I just learned how to fully strip my glock -- thanks to DVD tracker). So the Wilson fits the bill in furnishing a "custom tactical."
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Please dont tell anyone that. [:P] Honestly I have zero mechanical aptitude and I swapped my trigger and hammer out in less than 5 min with no tools my first try. If you have an IQ over 80 and at least 4 fingers anyone can swap a trigger out. It is really that easy.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:39:02 PM EST
Well, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night....and ordered the AGI video, so maybe I will be doing my own swapping the trigger/hammer groups out myself.
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