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Posted: 10/14/2008 7:37:03 PM EDT
I’m in the market for a new AR15 and have narrowed it down to a few.  I’m looking for the best one I can get for the money and would like to keep it under $2k if I can.   I sold my Colt LEO 3 years ago and have noticed that the AR has changed a lot since I was using one every day.   I was issued a colt in the military as a forward air controller (GAU5) and purchased a LEO Colt for a patrol riffle.  My department now will let me purchase my own rather use an issued weapon.  

Here are the things that are important to me:

• Overall lightweight and balanced.  So many of the newer heavy barrels are so front end heavy that they are hard to hold onto target with one hand.  
• Well made and good brand.  This will be a real world entry and patrol weapon used for LEO duties.  Must be reliable and able to take a beating in a patrol car and being banged around while at work.  
• 16” barrel unless someone can convince me that a shorter one is as accurate up to 100 yards.  A shot over 200 yards is rare for me and most will be 50 or less.
• I’ll be adding an Aimpoint M4s, side mounting tac sling, and undecided on tac light.  

I’m looking at the Bushmaster Modular Carbine since it has most of what I want from the factory.  It seems to be a bit pricy compared to a basic bushmaster for what you get at $1279…but much cheaper than the higher end brands.  Here are the specs on the modular carbine.

Bushmaster’s 16” Modular Carbine combines many of the most requested AR accessories; an A3 type Flattop Upper, a 16” chrome lined chromemoly fluted barrel and milled gas block. Includes a 6 position stock. A quick detach sling swivel mount can be positioned to the left or right side of the carbine. A four rail free-floater tubular forend combined with the A3 type flattop upper receiver provides rails to mount a wide variety of accessories. Molded rubber rail grips snap over the handguard rail sections for comfort. The rear flip-up sight is a dual aperture B.M.A.S. detachable unit with a windage knob calibrated to 1/2 MoA. The B.M.A.S. front sight folds down for scope use and flips up with a button. It incorporates an elevation adjustable M16A2 front sight post. The forged, lightweight, 7075T6 aircraft quality aluminum receiver includes cartridge case deflector, last round bolt hold open and raised ribs for magazine release button protection. Features: 10 round magazine (accepts all M16 types). Black web sling. Lockable, foam lined case. 5.56mm (.223 Rem.). Length-34.5”, 16”, 1 in 9” R.H. twist barrel. Weight-7.3lb

My second option is the Wilson Combat UT-15.  It is also pricy at $1800 for what you see below, but nice features and respected name brand in high end guns.  

UT-15 Urban Tactical with Quad Rail Features:

• Forged upper (flat top) and lower receivers
• Premium Wilson Combat® Match-Grade Fluted Barrel, 16.25" OAL
• Wilson Combat® Tactical Muzzle Brake
• Free-Float Ventilated Quad Rail Aluminum Handguard
• ERGO Ergonomically Correct Pistol Grip
• Crisp 3-3.5# Trigger Pull with JP Trigger/ Hammer Group
• Premium Mil-Spec Bolt and Bolt Carrier, NP-3 Coated
• Hard Anodize Finish on Receivers
• Mil-Spec Black Manganese Phosphate (Parkerized) on Barrel and
Steel Components.
• Armor-Tuff® Finish optional
• Magazine Capacity ¬ Accepts all M-16/AR-15 Style Magazines, includes (1) 20rd Magazine.
• Nylon Tactical Rifle Case included.


Next would be the Noveske Rifleworks N4 Light Recce Low-Profile 16" since it seems to be highly recommended here on this forum…but I’ve never heard of it.  It is the most expensive of the ones I’m looking at $1975.  

The specs on this riffle are:

16.1" Cold Hammer Forged Barrel, 1 in 7" twist, 5.56mm
--Made of Mil Spec M249 Machine Gun barrel steel, with heavy M249 Chrome Lining,
(appx. 2 times as thick as an M4 or M16)
--Extended Feed Ramps
--Mil Spec Phosphate finish
--MP HP tested with certification
--Mid-Length gas system, no M203 notch
--Shot peened and MP tested bolt
--Properly staked carrier key
--Auto carrier
--Mil-Spec receiver extension, staked
--H Buffer
--Vltor Carbine buttstock
--Tango Down pistol grip
--Forged Vltor MUR upper receiver featuring an anti-rotation interface with the handguard
--11" free floated handguard w/ 1913 rails
--Low-profile gas block pinned to barrel
--Flip-up front and rear sights
--Flash suppressor options, (see drop box)
--One 30 rd mag included


And of course I’m also looking at a Bushmaster Texas M4 Carbine for $879 and upgrade from there.   Of course I believe that a custom made riffle designed as one piece would be hard to beat for overall reliability.

Is the Wilson and Noveske really worth that much more than a bushmaster?  Do they really shoot and feel better than a $1000 AR?  I just don’t want to spend less and wish I’d upgraded later.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:43:17 PM EDT
it all depends on what you want on your rifle.  Personally, I'd build up a M4 style LMT with a Daniel Defense light rail, some Troy Buis, and an Aimpoint and call it a done, but what works for me may not be right for you.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:45:54 PM EDT
Wilson Combat AR's are good rifles but not worth the extra cost. Get the N4 Light Recce upper and build your own lower. You won't pay the excise tax on a complete rifle, and it will be cheaper to buy a stripped lower and assemble it yourself.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:47:56 PM EDT
Why not just get a Colt 6920?
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 7:50:59 PM EDT
wilson not worth that much more, the Noveske is.

If you can spare the coin, you'll be happy for a lifetime with that rifle.
Link Posted: 10/14/2008 8:35:19 PM EDT
I'd get the Noveske (in fact, I did). FWIW, they have an LEO discount.

I got the N4 Recce Basic and added a Larue 9.0 rail:

Link Posted: 10/15/2008 5:57:12 AM EDT

Quoted:
wilson not worth that much more, the Noveske is.

If you can spare the coin, you'll be happy for a lifetime with that rifle.


My thought as well, but you may want to also look at the JP Rifles VTAC that is designed for law enforcement.  I have the CTR-02 and the quality is top notch.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 6:00:23 AM EDT
If you've got the spare cash get the Noveske...other wise I think you'll be quite happy with a trusty ol' Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 11:48:32 PM EDT
So why are these $2k+ rifles so much better than a $900-1000 one?  Do they shoot that much better?  What is it that makes it so much better?

I have the $ and I'm not afraid to spend it...but I don't want to waste it either.  
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:08:36 AM EDT
I would get a Noveske all day, everyday over a Wilson.  Noveske, LMT & Colt and top of the line rifles and are worth the extra coin.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:06:18 AM EDT
height=8
Quoted:
I would get a Noveske all day, everyday over a Wilson.  Noveske, LMT & Colt and top of the line rifles and are worth the extra coin.


I can get a LEO Colt for around $800 and a Noveske for $1500-2000...so why a Noveske over a Colt?  Why the $1000 difference.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:11:15 AM EDT
One word quality...they use the highest grade metals and parts in their guns.  It's like the diffecence between an Suburban and an Escalade.  Yeah they look the same, but ones a Chevy and one's a Cadillac.  Also I've heard customer sevices is amazing.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 6:45:49 AM EDT
You could build a top quality AR for a little over $1000 using the best components for example.

Sabre defence 1195E 4150 CMV barrel thats been individualy MP/HP tested,M4 profile 16" $320

CMT M4 ramped flat top upper$105

Bravo Compant MP tested carrier/bolt group $130

forged T handle $25

shave off the FSB and get sat a matching set of troy BUIS front and rear$250

Esential arms forged lower $100

LPK $55

mil-spec telestock assembly $70

Total $1040...with a railed forend say surefire M73 $170....$1210..$1110 if you leave the FSB alone and just get a rear BUIS.

You get better and cheaper than wilson and Bushmaster...the Noveske barrel is tops but the Sabre defence barrel is also spec and overall way cheaper even using a BCM professional grade upper brings a build to about the same for top of the line quality.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:46:09 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would get a Noveske all day, everyday over a Wilson.  Noveske, LMT & Colt and top of the line rifles and are worth the extra coin.


I can get a LEO Colt for around $800 and a Noveske for $1500-2000...so why a Noveske over a Colt?  Why the $1000 difference.


The Noveske N4 barrels are more accurate, have double thickness chrome lining, and a better barrel profile than a standard M4 barrel. It's also available with a midlength gas system. If you don't need those, then there isn't much of a reason to get the Noveske over the Colt.

Also, the Noveske comes with a VLTOR stock, Troy folding rear sight, Tango Down grip, and aftermarket flash hider (your choice). The more expensive versions (closer to $2000) come with free floating rails or a complete monolithic upper and folding sights. That's why those cost so much more.

Where are you finding LE Colts for $800? When it was time to by mine, a 6920 was $1400 (same as the Noveske N4), so I spent my money on the one with the better barrel and came with $300+ worth of extras (stock, sight, grip, flash hider).

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:56:26 PM EDT
If the rifle shoots and function like it is supposed to do, like all of them do except for bad apples and EVERY company has had them. The shooter is going to be the thing that makes the difference. I can do the same shooting with a Noveske, Wilson or a Bushmaster.
So it is your money....is the point to shoot and hit or to be cool on a internet forum say "I have this!" with people you may never even see in your life? It is up to you.

I would like to know the errors per 100 rifles from all the companies.

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:03:55 PM EDT
Ummm.... if you have the money... get the Noveske... that is all.
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