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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/27/2004 9:21:07 PM EST
From looking at pics from Afghanistan and Iraq it seems that almost all US solders are wearing flak/ballistic vest these days along with some type of tactical vest. With so much padding on the shoulders of soldiers how can they get a proper cheek weld using A2 stock? I am of average size guy but I can’t do it when wearing thick jacket in winter.

In last few years I have changed all my fixed stock AR rifles from the A2 to the shorter A1 stocks and have replaced all my AR carbine stocks to 6-position type just for this reason.

In future do you think US military will change/replace fixed stocks on A2 rifles to collapsible type? Perhapse they will replace all A2 models with M4?


Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:23:43 PM EST
M4 will probably replace almost all full size rifles.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:25:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:27:07 PM EST by Darkest2000]
Yeup. Retractable stock is probably the answer to your question. Although I'm personally a rifle length type of guy, whatever that's best for our boys.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:10:09 PM EST
most of the "grunt" units here (afghanistan) i have seen have m4s. most of the support units still carry m16a2s. it seems the trend is going to the m4 but i think it will be a while till the m16 is gone. i personal carry a m9 most of the time and have no problem shouldering it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:11:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By blackhawk_crew:
most of the "grunt" units here (afghanistan) i have seen have m4s. most of the support units still carry m16a2s. it seems the trend is going to the m4 but i think it will be a while till the m16 is gone. i personal carry a m9 most of the time and have no problem shouldering it.



Whats interesting is that the military first bought the M4 for rear units and the M16A2 for line units.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:21:55 PM EST
that seems to make more sence. its a know fact the longer the barrel the more accuate. only makes sence that main battle rifle would be the longer. doesnt help that the Spec ops community adopted them.

if i had got an AR for accurcey i would have gotten a 20" barrel. but i wanted a Carbine that was fun to shot.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:23:24 PM EST
Barrel length hurts accuracy, the myth came from the heavier weight and longer sight radius of longer rifles that are more accurate.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 11:17:22 PM EST
Of course it won't!

There'll always be some around, even if at some point in time they're all in civillian hands :)
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 11:33:17 PM EST
longer barrel only increases velocity, not accuracy. Although I guess a higher velocity can indirectly improve accuracy in some cases...
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 11:39:56 PM EST
Longer sight radius is more user freindly. or more forgiving for us coffee users.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:25:20 AM EST
The A2 stock is here to stay, IMO. Telestocks are not the best thing to bash the brains out of some third-world terrorist..
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:26:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:
The A2 stock is here to stay, IMO. Telestocks are not the best thing to bash the brains out of some third-world terrorist..

Yeah, but neither is a lightweight plastic fixed stock.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:11:11 AM EST
I don't know so much about "lightweight" which could be inferred as being easily broken. I've seen many a Marine use their M16A2 to break their falls (even though we were taught not to) with the stock of their M16's. Hell... a few times at Camp Pendleton, while on rifle range, we had to drop to the ground many times during rifle qual, and I was getting sick of hitting the gravel and having my knees and ribs bruised. I started breaking my fall with the M16, and it not only never broke, but I qual'd expert. For the record, I only shot below expert once in twelve times to the range... my first time (in boot camp) with the Drill Instructor yelling at me the whole time. I missed it by one point.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:41:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:42:46 AM EST by Hoplophile]

Originally Posted By Edge767:
I don't know so much about "lightweight" which could be inferred as being easily broken.

It's not a matter of durability, it's a matter of having enough mass to make a good club. As I much as I love my AR it isn't nearly as good a club as a wood stocked steel rifle like a Garand.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:23:01 PM EST
Personally the M93A has made the fixed stock obsolete in my opinion. I see no advantage to the fixed stock at all now.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:40:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By blackhawk_crew:
its a know fact the longer the barrel the more accuate.



Not!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:46:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
It's not a matter of durability, it's a matter of having enough mass to make a good club. As I much as I love my AR it isn't nearly as good a club as a wood stocked steel rifle like a Garand.



Well that is one vote for issue implements to hit with vice shooting with.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:46:49 PM EST
Are the collapsable stocks really durable enough to survive heavy combat (like hand to hand and bayonet tactics)? I am familar with the slam method of removing a stuck case. Will a collapsable stock survive this procedure? I know that the A2 is still made of palstic but it still must be the better stock for field use espeically on a 20" rifle.

Karl
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:21:46 PM EST


if i had got an AR for accurcey i would have gotten a 20" barrel. but i wanted a Carbine that was fun to shot.



I have a simple solution. Get both...I did, plus I have an OA-93 on order.

Jay
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:27:12 PM EST
How many of you guys have ever tried using your buttstock in a rude manner?

I broke down (and through) interior doors in a house a friend was renovating with a CAR stock. It's more than sturdy enough, and if you need any more, fix bayonets.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:40:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By krazy_karl:
Are the collapsable stocks really durable enough to survive heavy combat (like hand to hand and bayonet tactics)? I am familar with the slam method of removing a stuck case. Will a collapsable stock survive this procedure? I know that the A2 is still made of palstic but it still must be the better stock for field use espeically on a 20" rifle.

Karl



This one will: ACE M4 SOCOM "Approximately 6 times stronger than an AR15 A2 stock & receiver extension tube. Ideal for CQB or breaching doors, and without the fear of bending the receiver extension tube." It also weighs about the same as the Magpul M93A stock.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:53:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:21:52 PM EST
I think the A2 stock config is gonna be around for a long time. Remember he is referring to military usage here. If for some reason there is to be a full all out deployment you may actually get to see just how many of these A2 stocks there are. You might want to remember that all troops are not special combat forces. They might all end up as infantry when it is all said and done but remember everyone isn't some kind of special forces. I was an aircraft mechanic. You think I got to carry one of those smooth little lightweight carbines? NOT!!! You might want to think about the weopon a guy would carry if he was a draftee if it ever came to that...probably an A2. But who knows, I am only guessing right. Seems to me that everytime I got deployed they always made me carry more and more heavy shit. The first thing I was issued was a toolbox, then brand new chemgear, freakin A-bag, auto-injectors, and a weopon. Since I was a bigger guy they always wanted to try and pawn off a 60 or a 249 on me but I always got out of it..."ain't qualified" I would say...they hated that shit but it always worked. LOL, now look at me, I have one of those heavy-ass Bushmaster Dissipators. Go figure.

Wes
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:33:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By blackhawk_crew:
most of the "grunt" units here (afghanistan) i have seen have m4s. most of the support units still carry m16a2s. it seems the trend is going to the m4 but i think it will be a while till the m16 is gone. i personal carry a m9 most of the time and have no problem shouldering it.



Considering that the Army has been fielding M16A4 to line units since as early as 2002 - and now the Marine corps has adopted the M16A4 service-wide - that obnoxiously long stock will be around for a while, unless a Modification Work Order is directed.

Canada'a new C7A2 has a 20" barrel and a 4-position buttstock.

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