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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/12/2004 3:37:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 3:43:08 AM EST by Resolved]
Once the ban expires will the LEO marked mags be legal to for the civilian to possess? Can anybody back up their answer with a legal opinion or copy of the law?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:42:58 AM EST
well if ar lowers marked for le only will be legal, shouldn't the mags be legal
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:46:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 3:46:41 AM EST by Resolved]
I would think so but I'm concerned that there is a clause that I might have missed when reading the Crime Bill. I became frustrated after the first paragraph and I might not have had an objective attitude!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:31:14 AM EST
There is nothing in the CB that says that, but you know how they can intrepret things. On the 13th, there is supposed to be an announcement on the ATFE's web page concerning what will be and what will not be legal. We'll have to wait and see.
The way I see it, the markings were due to the AWB. The AWB is gone, the markings are meaningless. But just because I slept in a Holliday Inn last night doesn't mean that my interpretation and theirs will be anything near alike.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 2:28:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By nchapa:
well if ar lowers marked for le only will be legal, shouldn't the mags be legal



The ATF ruling on the LEO lowers, stated that the lower in itself, a lower didn't have enough "evil" features to be considered a banned item...if I remember correctly that is. So one could build an AR in post ban configuration and be ok. The comparison would be: If you had an LEO mag that had been neutered to 10 rounds, it would be ok I guess.

I will say that I personally feel that LEO mags will be OK after Monday, but you never know w/ the ATF.

They could say NO, fight it out in the courts, hoping that another ban will come our way before we get an answer.

Hopefully they will have a ruling posted on their FAQ's, as I am sure they have received 1000's of requests on this subject.

FB
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:58:22 PM EST
The only problem I'd have buying LEO marked mags is what happens if another ban is passed in the next couple of years? How can you prove its a pre-ban LEO mag vs a current LEO mag? Unless they change the markings on LEO mags, there'd be no way. Unfortunately, in circumstances like this, the burden of proof rests on YOU to prove they're pre-ban, not the government. I'm going to wait until the 13th and purchase non-leo marked mags.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:41:30 PM EST
Because all post Sept 14 th 1994 hi cap mags also have a date stamp on the mag body.

My most recent LEO mag purchase has 12-03 stamped in it. Happy New Year!!

As far as marked lowers goes, here is MY interpretation: Words don't mean shit. Some disagree. For those that do... If I engrave my lower "NOT FOR LEO USE" then this should mean that it can never be legally confescated and I am free to do with it what I wish because it says LEO's are prohibited for holding it?

My buddy had the Punisher skull laser engraved in his lower. Yes Sir! Frank Castle's personal AR 15.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:12:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By TXAGGIECCL:
The only problem I'd have buying LEO marked mags is what happens if another ban is passed in the next couple of years? How can you prove its a pre-ban LEO mag vs a current LEO mag? Unless they change the markings on LEO mags, there'd be no way. Unfortunately, in circumstances like this, the burden of proof rests on YOU to prove they're pre-ban, not the government. I'm going to wait until the 13th and purchase non-leo marked mags.




Unmarked mags will not be available on the 13th, they have to manufacture them first since they cant make high caps without the LEO stamp during the ban
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:16:01 PM EST
www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-factsheet.htm

U.S. Department of Justice

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington, DC 20226



CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW AS OF SEPTEMBER 13, 2004
RELATING TO
SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS (SAWs)

AND

LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES (LCAFDs)


GENERAL

As of September 13, 2004, the provisions of Public Law 103-322, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, covering semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices are no longer in effect. The regulations implementing these provisions also are no longer in effect.

Specifically, there is no longer a Federal prohibition on the manufacture, transfer, and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

There are no longer any marking requirements for semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use may be disregarded.

There is no longer any Federal requirement for Federal firearms licensees to obtain certain documentation before transferring semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to government agencies or law enforcement officers. However, any records obtained prior to September 13, 1994, pertaining to the sale or transfer of semiautomatic assault weapons must still be retained for a period of 5 years. See 27 CFR § 478.129(f). Moreover, records of importation and manufacture must be maintained permanently and licensees must maintain all other acquisition and disposition records for 20 years.

Licensees who provided letters of future intent to sell semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to law enforcement agencies and other qualified customers are no longer obligated to comply with such letters.

Anyone who illegally possessed, manufactured, or transferred semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices before the bans sunset still have violated the law since their possession, manufacture, or transfer was illegal at the time.


IMPORTATION

The prohibition on the importation of non-sporting firearms under 18 U.S.C. section 922(l) and 925(d)(3) still applies.

Importation of large capacity ammunition feeding devices still is covered under the Arms Export Control Act. Therefore an approved permit still is required to import large capacity magazines.

Temporary importation of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity magazines is now lawful under the provisions of 27 CFR § 478.115(d) because temporary importations are not subject to the sporting purpose test.

Any importer who has a valid approved Form 6 import permit with a restriction related to the assault weapon ban should comply with the restriction because the weapons most likely are non-sporting.

Any importer who has a valid approved Form 6 import permit with a restriction related to large capacity ammunition feeding devices may disregard the restriction. Importers may apply for a new permit if they prefer.

ASSEMBLY OF NON-SPORTING SHOTGUNS AND SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES FROM IMPORTED PARTS

The prohibition on assembly of non-sporting shotguns and semiautomatic rifles from imported parts as provided under 18 U.S.C. § 922(r) and 27 CFR § 478.39 still applies.

SENTENCING ENHANCEMENTS

The sentencing enhancements for using semiautomatic assault weapons in a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime no longer are in effect. Similarly, the sentencing enhancements for semiautomatic assault weapons in the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines no longer are in effect.

LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS

Law enforcement officers and police departments who obtained semiautomatic assault weapons are no longer required to use such firearms only for official use.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer large capacity ammunition feeding devices to anybody.

Signed statements that semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices will be used for official use are no longer required to be provided to Federal firearms licensees.

RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS

Federal law does not prohibit retiring law enforcement officers from keeping semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

Former law enforcement officers who received semiautomatic assault weapons on retirement may now transfer those firearms to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms. Transfer of large capacity ammunition feeding devices is no longer restricted.

NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT

All provisions of the National Firearms Act relating to registration and transfer of machineguns, short barreled rifles, weapons made from rifles, short barreled shotguns, weapons made from shotguns, any other weapons as defined in Title 26 U.S.C. section 5845(e), silencers, and destructive devices still apply.

Registered silencers can now be attached to semiautomatic rifles and pistols without creating a prohibited semiautomatic assault weapon.

USAS-12 and Striker12/Streetsweeper shotguns are still classified as destructive devices under ATF Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 and must be possessed and transferred in accordance with the NFA.

EFFECT ON STATE LAW

Expiration of the Federal law will not change any provisions of State law or local ordinances. Questions concerning State assault weapons restrictions should be referred to State and local authorities.


Download the PDF Version





Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:27:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fat_Boy:


Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use may be disregarded.






OH HELL YEA!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:39:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:48:05 PM EST
This must be like what the end of Prohibition was, on a much smaller scale of course.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:16:26 PM EST
There are NO restriction as of Sept.13th for stamped firearms/magazines. But as it states in the BATF letter regarding this: "Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use MAY be disregarded.

I have spoke to LE dealers who told me that they will not sell LEO/GOV. marked firearms and magazines to civilians after the ban sunsets by choice.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:02:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:05:42 PM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
There are NO restriction as of Sept.13th for stamped firearms/magazines. But as it states in the BATF letter regarding this: "Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use MAY be disregarded.

I have spoke to LE dealers who told me that they will not sell LEO/GOV. marked firearms and magazines to civilians after the ban sunsets by choice.




You are interpreting it wrong, It just like me telling you "yes you may go for a walk" I am giving you permission to do so.


Edit: and they included firearms in that little snid bit which ATF has already sent out a letter regarding that.


It was the 1994 AWB that made manufactures put that writing on the mags so wouldnt you think that when the law expires that we would be able to have them then.


They are all legal now no matter what the hell they say on them.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:33:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
There are NO restriction as of Sept.13th for stamped firearms/magazines. But as it states in the BATF letter regarding this: "Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use MAY be disregarded.

I have spoke to LE dealers who told me that they will not sell LEO/GOV. marked firearms and magazines to civilians after the ban sunsets by choice.




oh check this out too


www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-faqs.htm


Q: Are SAWs and LCAFDs marked “Restricted law enforcement/government use only” or “For export only” legal to sell to civilians in the United States?

A: Yes. SAWs and LCAFDs are no longer prohibited. Therefore firearms with the restrictive markings are legal to transfer to civilians in the United States and it will be legal for non-prohibited civilians to possess them. All civilians may possess LCAFDs.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:47:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 2:12:16 AM EST by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By repub18:


You are interpreting it wrong, It just like me telling you "yes you may go for a walk" I am giving you permission to do so.


Edit: and they included firearms in that little snid bit which ATF has already sent out a letter regarding that.


It was the 1994 AWB that made manufactures put that writing on the mags so wouldnt you think that when the law expires that we would be able to have them then.


They are all legal now no matter what the hell they say on them.



I completely agree, yes they are legal. But some dealers will choose not to sell what LEO/GOV. stamped firearms/magazines they have in stock to civilians. And they wont have to.

The dealer I spoke to said his reasoning was because if somewhere down the road, a weapon that he sold with LEO/GOV. markings (after 09/13/2004) comes up used in the commision of a crime by a "bad guy", he will be able to say that he sold that weapon to officer _________ on _________ date. Im guessing he's thinking about liability issues. Keep in mind, that is here in Illinois where Governer... I mean Mayor Daley (Chicago) tries to sue every gun manufacturer/dealer in the state to try and push his bullshit "sensible" gun control agenda.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:10:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 1:12:46 AM EST by Eric]
www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-faqs.htm
Might be good to make a few copies for dealers who are not up to speed.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:10:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Eric:
www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-faqs.htm
Might be good to make a few copies for dealers who are not up to speed.



I agree. But if they are "up to speed" and still decide that they will not sell LEO marked weapons/mags to civilians, they still do not have to.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:29:55 AM EST
Though some dealers may choose not to sell LEO-only guns and mags after the sunset, my guess is that you will always be able to find dealers who will. If the no further legislation is enacted, then the dealers who choose not to sell these items may change their position if they feel they are loosing out on sales to the other dealer who are.

- Snacko
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:41:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 5:45:52 AM EST by Somerled]
"Anyone who illegally possessed, manufactured, or transferred semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices before the bans sunset still have violated the law since their possession, manufacture, or transfer was illegal at the time."

This is from a ATF fact sheet. I wouldn't be caught carrying LEO marked mags or receivers because it could be conceived I obtained them illegally while the ban was still in effect. At the very least, keep the receipts bearing the sales date.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:41:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Somerled:
"Anyone who illegally possessed, manufactured, or transferred semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices before the bans sunset still have violated the law since their possession, manufacture, or transfer was illegal at the time."

This is from a ATF fact sheet. I wouldn't be caught carrying LEO marked mags or receivers because it could be conceived I obtained them illegally while the ban was still in effect. At the very least, keep the receipts bearing the sales date.



AHHH the ban is over dude, take a chill pill
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:03:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Somerled:
"Anyone who illegally possessed, manufactured, or transferred semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices before the bans sunset still have violated the law since their possession, manufacture, or transfer was illegal at the time."

This is from a ATF fact sheet. I wouldn't be caught carrying LEO marked mags or receivers because it could be conceived I obtained them illegally while the ban was still in effect. At the very least, keep the receipts bearing the sales date.




and by the way most LEO mags are date stamped
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:46:28 PM EST
Don't sweat it. there will be enough mags wit thout the Military/LE stamp to be hand it won't even be funny, so if your sweating it. don't buy the ones with the stamp.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:48:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 2:49:16 PM EST by sosabowski]
Tapco is selling LEO mags for $11.99

www.tapco.com
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:13:01 PM EST
I just bought 10 and I think it is cool to have that stamp. It will be a constant reminder to be ever vigilant
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:59:21 PM EST
One of my friends works at the local Law Enforcement Center. He called me from work to let me know about all the buzz that was going on at the LEC. He said a lot of officers did not even know about the AWB! "Well, they do now. Or lack there of." was one of his comments.

Rest assured that all the agencies got a memo on the 13th.

Just sit back and enjoy it. These are the fruits of our labors and now so many people are fretting about excercising their returned rights. Nobody is going to question ANY mag you have. Nobody is going to question ANY markings on the mags you have. Its all over the TV and newspapers. (At least here it is.)

LongRifle has it right! The stamps hold a definate cool factor as well as a constant reminder of the BS we've all been through the last 10 years.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:49:12 PM EST
Yup - check out the atf page - they have a pdf you can DL

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