Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/16/2005 4:05:36 AM EDT
I have been wanting to purchase a pistol caliber upper for several years. I have come close to buying one on several occasions but just couldn't pull the trigger fast enough or got cold feet. My intended purpose for the upper is for a affordable and fun plinker and I was thinking of one in .45 ACP. When browsing the pistol caliber forum I could not find a single reference to a .45 upper and it seems that 9mm is the preferred caliber, why is this?

Thanks for your input.

Mac
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 4:32:19 AM EDT
With the 9mm you have several options for uppers ie: RRA, Colt, Olympic, or even (God help me) ASSA. The 45acp is limitted to Olympic Arms. The 9s hav high (or normal) capacity mags of 30, 32, 0r 34 (with the Sterling mag) rounds. The 45 is limitted to 16 rounds with a modified Uzi mag. It seems like there have been just a whole lot more options with the 9.

Having said that, Cav Arms has a lower that takes Grease Gun mags comming out. When that happens (if it has not already done so) the 45 might take off like a rocket.

The final factor is price. The parts are essentially the same, but ammo cost is much higher for the 45. Even reloads are pricey. I can get 9mm down to 5.5 to 6 cents a round with lead reloads. I'm looking at 10-12 cents a round for the 45. At 500 tfs (trigger finger speed) that adds up.

Bottom line, get what makes you happy. Or as I have seen so often here...GET BOTH

ka
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 5:10:44 AM EDT
Magazines are the biggest issue.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:35:38 AM EDT
I'd guess it's the magazine issue and multi-configs. I was torn and couldnt decide at first, but owning 2 Kimber 1911s made me want the .45 more than the wimpy 9mm I'd owned before and sold, because it was wimpy. I now have my Oly .45 upper, shot it yesterday and had a GREAT time. It is very accurate and worked flawlessly. I mounted the upper with an EOTECH on the rail onto my DPMS lower. Will send some pics in an update. You won't be sorry with the .45 unless you plan on going full auto. I'd hate to have to reload a 10 rounder over and over.
And don't forget the 8.5 oz buffer you'll need.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:37:36 AM EDT
Yeah, I bought my .45, but I do plan on having BOTH.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:40:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2005 7:40:59 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
... Having said that, Cav Arms has a lower that takes Grease Gun mags comming out. When that happens (if it has not already done so) the 45 might take off like a rocket...




My understanding is that there is a dedicated mag-block for this appplication already available (from Brownell's IIRC) and that it, with GG mags, will work on any Mk II Cav lower. I am intrigued, but waiting to see more feedback from the "early adopters"...
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:46:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:50:38 AM EDT
There's a big thread over in the Cavarms forum about 45 AR's. It's my understanding that everything is now available, you just have to piece it together from all the different sources - the Upper, the Mag block, and the heavy buffer.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:59:48 AM EDT
Thanks for everyones input. I know that Oly has 10 round and 16 round magazines using modified uzi mags. Is there a block in the magazine which would prevent more than 16 rounds or can only 16 rounds of .45 fit into the mag.

I spoke to a Class II dealer the other day and he told me that greasegun mags would not fit in the mag well of a AR. He said that with modifications they could be made to fit but said reliability would be a major factor. Having said all that I would much rather purchase and modify GG mags and mag well block than to have to purchase magazines from Oly.



Link Posted: 6/16/2005 8:18:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
There's a big thread over in the Cavarms forum about 45 AR's...



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=61&t=146137
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 8:59:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'm leaning towards the grease gun set up for my cavarms lower-I think you need Slash's buffer, the mag thingie from Brownells, the upper and grease gun mags



That is correct.

Link Posted: 6/16/2005 12:13:57 PM EDT
What about LaFrance Specialties? They use to (or still do?) make a .45 conversion that used old Thompson mags. Has anyone ever seen one of these? I read a very favourable review on it quite a few years back in a gun mag. If they're still around then I'd love to get my hands on one of them, although I understand they were (are?) pretty pricey.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 12:56:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2005 12:56:39 PM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Leg:
What about LaFrance Specialties? They use to (or still do?) make a .45 conversion that used old Thompson mags...



If you remember, could they utilize the drums as well, or just the stick-mags? (Just curious...)
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 1:02:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2005 1:03:23 PM EDT by NAM]
anyone got a link or part number to the brownells block?

EDIT: 100-002-227
CAV-15 Grease Gun Adapter
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 1:28:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MacAttack:
Thanks for everyones input. I know that Oly has 10 round and 16 round magazines using modified uzi mags. Is there a block in the magazine which would prevent more than 16 rounds or can only 16 rounds of .45 fit into the mag.

I spoke to a Class II dealer the other day and he told me that greasegun mags would not fit in the mag well of a AR. He said that with modifications they could be made to fit but said reliability would be a major factor. Having said all that I would much rather purchase and modify GG mags and mag well block than to have to purchase magazines from Oly.






That's why you go spend $200 and get a Cavarms lower. You can use GG mags, and you don't need to alter your lower, it comes that way from the factory.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 4:30:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2005 4:35:09 PM EDT by Dehammer]
Greasegun Adapter.........a pure drop in conversion, add upper, add Cav lower, add buffer, add Hahn adapter........no modifications to the magazine or components.

Read the Cav Arms thread in the industry section for information on the reliabity of this conversion.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 4:10:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 5:24:43 AM EDT by Amadeus]
But there isn't a collapsable stock setup that uses GG mags, right? Til then I'll just play with what I have.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a170/tnorris7/.jpg
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 4:49:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Amadeus:
But there isn't a collapsable stock setup that uses GG mags, right?

Correct and that stinks IMHO. I would love to own a .45 AR but I don't like fixed stocks, especially on a pistol caliber AR.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 7:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By Amadeus:
But there isn't a collapsable stock setup that uses GG mags, right?

Correct and that stinks IMHO. I would love to own a .45 AR but I don't like fixed stocks, especially on a pistol caliber AR.



CavArms will have an aluminum lower that will accept GG mags on the market soon.

You should get your upper ordered NOW!


Link Posted: 6/17/2005 7:56:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slash:

Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By Amadeus:
But there isn't a collapsable stock setup that uses GG mags, right?

Correct and that stinks IMHO. I would love to own a .45 AR but I don't like fixed stocks, especially on a pistol caliber AR.



CavArms will have an aluminum lower that will accept GG mags on the market soon.

You should get your upper ordered NOW!





www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=61&t=147314
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:05:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HardShell:

Originally Posted By Leg:
What about LaFrance Specialties? They use to (or still do?) make a .45 conversion that used old Thompson mags. Has anyone ever seen one of these? I read a very favourable review on it quite a few years back in a gun mag. If they're still around then I'd love to get my hands on one of them, although I understand they were (are?) pretty pricey.



If you remember, could they utilize the drums as well, or just the stick-mags? (Just curious...)


Stick mags only. It wasn't a conversion, but a dedicated lower with a magwell for Thompson mags. It seemed very slick but due to LaFrance being in CA they could only sell to LE (at least that's the story I got). I think they are out of business now but had apparently patented the design

I'm glad someone else remembers it. To me it seemed the best design for a pistol caliber AR.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:30:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 8:32:35 AM EDT by wildearp]
Biggest drawback I see is that the damn thing burned up all my .45 ammo.


I modified Sten mags with a Dremel and a welder. No big deal.


I have a bushy lower and oly upper. RRA collapsible stock.
2nd from bottom in the pic:

Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:31:07 AM EDT
I seen a reworked lower at ISSMC that a fella was using......

It had a box made that was/appeared to be dovetailed to slide up the front of a modified lower, then it used std M3 mags with a push-button release. He was using an OLY pattern 45acp upper with an extremely short barrel with a suppressor the mated just in front of the upper, and was a mile long. He was running a drop in sear, and I never got to see it run, he was on opposite side of property as I most of the day, except for when I stopped to talk to him at his car during break.

I can try to find out more if need be, I just have to find out who he is first...
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 9:09:40 AM EDT
And you would charge me HOW much to modify a few for me??
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 2:34:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:

Originally Posted By HardShell:

Originally Posted By Leg:
What about LaFrance Specialties? They use to (or still do?) make a .45 conversion that used old Thompson mags. Has anyone ever seen one of these? I read a very favourable review on it quite a few years back in a gun mag. If they're still around then I'd love to get my hands on one of them, although I understand they were (are?) pretty pricey.



If you remember, could they utilize the drums as well, or just the stick-mags? (Just curious...)


Stick mags only. It wasn't a conversion, but a dedicated lower with a magwell for Thompson mags. It seemed very slick but due to LaFrance being in CA they could only sell to LE (at least that's the story I got). I think they are out of business now but had apparently patented the design he

I've never heard of it before, it sounds interstsing. Of course, I have two thompsons and plenty of mags, so with my luck (or lack of it) it no wonder they arent available now.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 3:59:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 4:00:28 PM EDT by HS85]
I had a chance to use one of the LaFrance M16s in .45 when I worked with a then local sheriff dept. I have since moved out of Calif had to way too restrictive laws. What a excellent piece of equipment. After that I just had to have one. I was patient and whenever I traveled I scoured gun shops and the internet now I have a facsimile of the LaFrance M16 in .45.

I have an semi Oly lower that has been modified with some light machining and some mag well adapters set screwed into the magwell that accepts the Thompson mags. It is a blast to shoot and mags are plentiful. The magwell was opened up a few thousandths and the upper where it meets the magwell had to be relieved a little to receive the mags. Other than that the upper was a standard Oly .45 upper. It uses the AR mag release to hold the mags in. Everything works just like a regular AR except it uses Thompson mags. Don't know who did the work on it so I don't have a clue where to get another.

I got lucky and found it here on AR15.com a couple of years ago paid 1100.00 for the whole set up and have been happy with it ever since. Still I would love to get a hold of one of the LaFrance units. Those were sweet.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 5:49:46 PM EDT
Here's some pics of LaFrance .45's




Link Posted: 6/23/2005 6:35:53 AM EDT
So what is the difference between the Cavarms lower and a standard Colt/ bushmaster lower? Could the adapter be modified to work in my Colt M16 lower? Does the Oly bolt have a sear trip?

Scott
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 8:13:03 AM EDT
The Cav Arms lower has a wider magwell built into it.......a pure drop in conversion, zero modifications.

THE heart of any rifle system is the magazines. Thompson magazines are great for Thompsons, they have NO magwell, so most of the outside dimensions were never critical, so they vary. Greasegun mags are extremely durable and precisely made, and run right out of the wrapper, no modifications, and priced well below what they should be.
Link Posted: 6/25/2005 2:01:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By canon3825:
So what is the difference between the Cavarms lower and a standard Colt/ bushmaster lower? Could the adapter be modified to work in my Colt M16 lower? Does the Oly bolt have a sear trip?

Scott



If you're the tinkering type you can modify M3 magazines to fit your lower. It requires milling off the spot welds and carefully dremel cutting the shroud off the top of the mag while leaving the reinforcements on the feed lips. You then need to grind down the width of the mag a bit more and weld a block to the rear of the mag. It's a ton of work but can be done. I've got a mag that I was tinkering with to get it to work, if you want to finish playing with it IM me and I'll send it to you. It still needs a spacer block welded to the back but the removal of the shroud and grinding is pretty much done. I've lost interest in finishing since my Cav is up and running.
Link Posted: 6/26/2005 3:12:12 AM EDT
For those of you who are interested, I am selling my SBR 8" flat top upper, lots of mags, a CavArms lower with the special buffer, spring, and Hahn magblock in the Equipment exchange.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 10:56:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 10:57:15 PM EDT by _DR]
Here is the current LaFrance Specialties website. Looks like they are mostly into combat shotguns and supressors these days. In addition, looks like they are now LE only.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 4:56:19 PM EDT
To the guys that have modified sten mags........

How many rounds will they hold?

Do you use a standard 9mm block?

I've been pondering this for awhile, as I already own two .45 handguns so a .45 upper would make sense for me, I just didn't want to buy a whole new rifle to get there......

Thanks
Top Top