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Posted: 9/28/2014 8:57:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2014 9:00:38 PM EST by dean1197]
Hey I own an eotech exps3-4 with a g33 magnifier and i'm wondering why I don't see more of them around? with the magnifier and the reticle of exps3-4 I can easily get 1 moa groups at a 100 yards, and this is out of a 14.5" chrome-lined barrel (I was using good ammunition though-nosler 77gr smk's), and can easily hit roughly man sized steel targets (the gongs at three points in Tucson, AZ) at 500 yards. The long range performance is pretty much the same as a 1-4x variable that's in the same price range as far as i'm concerned, I mean the 1-4x variable might have a slight advantage at intermediate ranges but not so much that I find it quantifiable or noticeable. Plus you still have the eotech for close up, which I find to be the fastest close quarters optic there is. I know the 4 dots blur together but they become more of a line than just a bunch of blurry dots and I can use it just as fast as regular 1-dot eotech. With intermediate performance pretty much the same as a 1-4x variable and close quarters performance I find to be way better than 1-4x variable's how come I don't see more of these? or at least almost as popular? Maybe because I care more about close quarters than I do distance which is the opposite of most people I find, idk.
Link Posted: 9/28/2014 9:50:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2014 9:57:10 PM EST by jukeboxx13]
I also have a G33 and love it, but the eyebox is not as big as a 1-4 in the same price range or has as much eye relief which is fine for me, but others really dislike that. I fixed the eyebox issue by going with a stock with a better cheek piece giving me a consistent cheek weld, and also shoot NTCH. As for a 1 MOA setup I cant call it that even with the best ammo, but thats not what I use it for.YMMV

ETA: You and I care more about CQB, which is why we like the combo so much. I for one hate eye relief/parallax on a 1x setting, but if a VCOG 1-6 was more affordable I'd be willing to give it another try cause of the cleaner reticle vs a red dot.
Link Posted: 9/28/2014 10:13:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2014 10:18:43 PM EST by dean1197]
As for the 1 moa groups, its more like 1 moa to 1.5 moa but its also a noveske chrome-lined barrel which I find to shoot more consistent and tight groups than any other chrome lined barrel I've tried. But ya realistically I expect 1-1.5 moa groups and I am using the nosler ammunition, about 55% of my groups are closer to 1.5 moa while the other 45% are close to or exactly 1 moa excluding the flier in a five shot group. but the point is I can shoot the 1 moa group pretty regularly with that set-up.

I should aslo mention I turn the brightness down as low as possible to make the dot a lot smaller and wear yellow tinted glasses to get better contrast between the target and the dot, but I've still shot plenty of 1 moa groups without them they just make it easier
Link Posted: 9/28/2014 10:30:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dean1197:
As for the 1 moa groups, its more like 1 moa to 1.5 moa but its also a noveske chrome-lined barrel which I find to shoot more consistent and tight groups than any other chrome lined barrel I've tried. But ya realistically I expect 1-1.5 moa groups and I am using the nosler ammunition, about 55% of my groups are closer to 1.5 moa while the other 45% are close to or exactly 1 moa excluding the flier in a five shot group. but the point is I can shoot the 1 moa group pretty regularly with that set-up.

I should aslo mention I turn the brightness down as low as possible to make the dot a lot smaller and wear yellow tinted glasses to get better contrast between the target and the dot, but I've still shot plenty of 1 moa groups without them they just make it easier
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I like turning the dot down too, and especially in low light.
Link Posted: 9/29/2014 5:07:02 AM EST
Where do you get Nosler Sierra match kings?


For popularity, I think 1-4x and 1-6x and the like are more desirable for the cost.
Link Posted: 9/29/2014 3:43:15 PM EST
sportsmans warehouse in Tucson has them, great now everyone is going to go there and I wont be able to get any lol
Link Posted: 9/29/2014 4:15:48 PM EST
I like the combo a lot and run it along with 1-4x and 1-5x scopes. EOTechs are great if you're doing low light shooting or shooting from some awkward positions like supine. However, the magnifier doesn't gather as much light as a 1-4x scope so it's actually pretty dim in low light.
One thing I don't like about the 3-4/557 reticle is the actual BDC drops don't match up to my ammo. Additionally, EOTech used to publish the subtensions on their site and now, they're gone. Good support there, EOTech.
Link Posted: 9/29/2014 10:00:20 PM EST
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:18:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2014 2:46:35 AM EST by jukeboxx13]
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Originally Posted By Heineken:
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...
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Going to test this issue claim myself soon.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:23:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2014 3:09:36 AM EST by M4A1]

My primary set up is an Aimpoint Comp M4 with the Aimpoint 3X magnifier. I also have the EXPS3 with G33 magnifier on a different gun.
They are both excellent. Though I prefer the 1moa of the Eotech center dot vs the 2moa Aimpoint.
No POI shifts when switching between the magnifier and non magnified.


Link Posted: 9/30/2014 11:44:33 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Heineken:
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...
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Whooaa, absolutely no POA shift from going to unmagnified to magnified or visa versa, the magnifier has no "zeroing" capability, it can make the reticle appear to move but definitely no change in POA. I can say this from a good amount of experience with the set-up.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 11:57:19 AM EST
I just wonder why I don't see more people using the exps3-4 with g33 magnifier setup, like I said you get the speed of an eotech, the exps3-4 is just as fast as the exps3 standard 1 dot (the four dots of the exps3-4 make no difference what-so-ever in speed) and the accuracy is about 90-95% (maybe 85%-95%) that of a 1-4x (depending on whether the 1-4 has a 1 moa dot in the center or just two intersecting fine lines), even at intermediate ranges i.e. 300,400,500 yards not just 100. Maybe it's because most people who try the concept use the cheaper primary arms magnifier to test it, and I've looked through these primary arms and there is a huge difference between the two, and the g33 beats it by a long-shot in every aspect, although I think the primary arms has a magnifier with longer eye relief, what's the point if the clarity isn't that great, the clarity of the g33 is much better.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:28:50 PM EST
I think the magnifier + RDS is a great option for a SHTF gun. Hands down, CQB is the most important attribute for a civilian. This setup does not compromise this capability. The magnifier helps with target ID or distance shooting. Heck, you don't even switch the magnifier in line with the RDS for ID purposes. Just roll your rifle.

The image you see is not as nice as a scope. However, you keep the true 1X and brightness of a RDS which is superior to the 1-X scopes.

Unfortunately, many older guys can't use it because our astigmatism makes the dot under magnification look horrible. I had to give mine to my 21 year old son.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:17:51 PM EST
Went to the range today, and did not experience any POI shit with my Eotech G33, and Aimpoint T1.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 5:50:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By acogshooter223:
I think the magnifier + RDS is a great option for a SHTF gun. Hands down, CQB is the most important attribute for a civilian. This setup does not compromise this capability. The magnifier helps with target ID or distance shooting. Heck, you don't even switch the magnifier in line with the RDS for ID purposes. Just roll your rifle.

The image you see is not as nice as a scope. However, you keep the true 1X and brightness of a RDS which is superior to the 1-X scopes.

Unfortunately, many older guys can't use it because our astigmatism makes the dot under magnification look horrible. I had to give mine to my 21 year old son.
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Even with a new prescription? I just got my new contacts recently with astigmatism correction, and my M4s is looking good again.

I am even thinking of going back to an eotech for my other AR i have been using a 1-6x on to make it lightweight again. I love having a variable but the weight and extra bulk can be kind of a turnoff sometimes + I have a 700 SPS, and M1a with magnified optics on them anyway if I want to change it up now and then.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 6:28:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Heineken:
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...
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I tested this with an xps3-2 and a vortex 3x and there was ZERO poi shift. Please delete yourt post or at least cite some evidence.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 6:46:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By madbarbarian87:


I tested this with an xps3-2 and a vortex 3x and there was ZERO poi shift. Please delete yourt post or at least cite some evidence.
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Originally Posted By madbarbarian87:
Originally Posted By Heineken:
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...


I tested this with an xps3-2 and a vortex 3x and there was ZERO poi shift. Please delete yourt post or at least cite some evidence.



I have had 3 3x mags with Eotechs before I sold them off for variable optics, and never saw any POI shift either

Would like to see proof of this myself.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 10:14:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4A1:

My primary set up is an Aimpoint Comp M4 with the Aimpoint 3X magnifier. I also have the EXPS3 with G33 magnifier on a different gun.
They are both excellent. Though I prefer the 1moa of the Eotech center dot vs the 2moa Aimpoint.
No POI shifts when switching between the magnifier and non magnified.


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Hard to tell, but is your gun setup with lower 1/3 co-witness? It looks like it, but could go either way. If it is, what model of Larue mount are you using? I've currently got a CompM4 w/ Lower 1/3 and looking into magnifiers.

Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 6:42:51 PM EST
I use the EXPS 2-2 with a G33 combo.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 6:48:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 7:13:09 PM EST by Heineken]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gman556:



I have had 3 3x mags with Eotechs before I sold them off for variable optics, and never saw any POI shift either

Would like to see proof of this myself.
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Originally Posted By gman556:
Originally Posted By madbarbarian87:
Originally Posted By Heineken:
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...


I tested this with an xps3-2 and a vortex 3x and there was ZERO poi shift. Please delete your post or at least cite some evidence.



I have had 3 3x mags with Eotechs before I sold them off for variable optics, and never saw any POI shift either

Would like to see proof of this myself.


Proof...proof is in the science of magnification and optics. when light passes through glass there is refraction. It may be minimal but it is there. You sight in with or without the magnification then add or take away layers of glass its inevitable. I tested several combos of eotechs and magnifiers and best was 3/4" moa shift in poi, and yes I adjusted the magnifier so the reticle was centered. Maybe some won't notice or won't care but it was enough for me to ditch it. Believe me or not..all I can say is I could prove it with range time and paper. I have also seen some who swear there is no poi shift for them so...

If you read this thread and check out the links especially the lightfighter link, you will find reputable sources who have experienced a shift or can provide some good explanations.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=423947



Link Posted: 10/1/2014 7:12:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Heineken:


Proof...proof is in the science of magnification and optics. when light passes through glass there is refraction. It may be minimal but it is there. You sight in with or without the magnification then add or take away layers of glass its inevitable. I tested several combos of eotechs and magnifiers and best was 3/4" moa or so poi and yes I adjusted the magnifier so the reticle was centered. Maybe some won't notice or won't care but it was enough for me to ditch it. Believe me or not..all I can say is I could prove it with range time and paper. I have also seen some who swear there is no poi shift for them.

If you read this thread and check out the links especially the lightfighter link, you will find reputable sources who have experienced a shift or can provide some good explanations.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=423947



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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Heineken:
Originally Posted By gman556:
Originally Posted By madbarbarian87:
Originally Posted By Heineken:
Great combo if u like poa shift from magnified to not...


I tested this with an xps3-2 and a vortex 3x and there was ZERO poi shift. Please delete your post or at least cite some evidence.



I have had 3 3x mags with Eotechs before I sold them off for variable optics, and never saw any POI shift either

Would like to see proof of this myself.


Proof...proof is in the science of magnification and optics. when light passes through glass there is refraction. It may be minimal but it is there. You sight in with or without the magnification then add or take away layers of glass its inevitable. I tested several combos of eotechs and magnifiers and best was 3/4" moa or so poi and yes I adjusted the magnifier so the reticle was centered. Maybe some won't notice or won't care but it was enough for me to ditch it. Believe me or not..all I can say is I could prove it with range time and paper. I have also seen some who swear there is no poi shift for them.

If you read this thread and check out the links especially the lightfighter link, you will find reputable sources who have experienced a shift or can provide some good explanations.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=423947



3/4 of an inch?

I can live with that.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 7:16:17 PM EST
So can a lot of people...and some may never notice. For my specific situation it was enough to switch.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 1:07:37 PM EST
I think I've answered my own question, I had to go to Scottsdale earlier this week and stopped at Scottsdale Gun Club while I was up there, I got a chance to look through the Aimpoint 3x mag and omg it was terrible. the field of view was horrible it was extremely narrow like looking through a straw, the clarity was terrible and although I hadn't adjusted the diopter to focus it perfectly it was still close enough for me to tell that the clarity was really bad. In my opinion and experience the only magnifier's worth buying are the Vortex magnifiers and the Eotech G33. this is probably why this setup isn't as popular, because the buyer tries the lower priced ones first to test the concept and assumes that the more expensive ones will just be a slightly better version of the bad ones and therefore not worth it, but there is a night and day difference between the Vortex 3x and the G33 magnifiers compared to the rest of the magnifiers, which I found god awful. I would never come close to buying any of the other magnifiers, so this is my guess as to why this set-up isn't as popular. Although I can't speak for the Eotech G23 because I've never tried it but i'm always hearing that the G33 beats the G23 by a long shot, so i'll assume the G23 is in there with the bad mags.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 1:10:25 PM EST
i Love my set up
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 3:49:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 3:49:40 PM EST by vandal]
The magnified FOV with my Eotech G33 and EXPS is significantly larger than the magnified FOV of my Trijicon TR24G at the same or even lower magnification level.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dean1197:
I think I've answered my own question, I had to go to Scottsdale earlier this week and stopped at Scottsdale Gun Club while I was up there, I got a chance to look through the Aimpoint 3x mag and omg it was terrible. the field of view was horrible it was extremely narrow like looking through a straw, the clarity was terrible and although I hadn't adjusted the diopter to focus it perfectly it was still close enough for me to tell that the clarity was really bad. In my opinion and experience the only magnifier's worth buying are the Vortex magnifiers and the Eotech G33. this is probably why this setup isn't as popular, because the buyer tries the lower priced ones first to test the concept and assumes that the more expensive ones will just be a slightly better version of the bad ones and therefore not worth it, but there is a night and day difference between the Vortex 3x and the G33 magnifiers compared to the rest of the magnifiers, which I found god awful. I would never come close to buying any of the other magnifiers, so this is my guess as to why this set-up isn't as popular. Although I can't speak for the Eotech G23 because I've never tried it but i'm always hearing that the G33 beats the G23 by a long shot, so i'll assume the G23 is in there with the bad mags.
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