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Posted: 10/6/2007 10:34:35 PM EST
I was going over this in my head. For a short range tactical setup, why wouldnt somebody want a 1.5 or 2x ACOG instead of an EOTECH or Aimpoint.

The ACOG can be mounted on the carry handle which eliminates the need to buy costly BUIS and also provides absolute cowitness using the standard iron sights. It also provides a small amount of magnification to better engage/identify targets beyond 100 yards. Its reliability is unmatched and all of the compact ACOGs feature BAC so both eyes can be open when aiming. No batteries required for illumination and features both a fiber optic tube and tritium for illumination.

With an EOTECH, they are of questionable reliability when it comes to maintaining a zero, costly iron sights and usually a throw lever mount must be purchased since if the plastic panel is damaged or shattered it can be ripped off easily to use said expensive iron sights. It provides no magnification w/o a costly magnifier and is limited in illumination by battery power.

With an AIMPOINT, they are also rugged/reliable and maintain a zero, but provide no magnification w/o a costly magnifier. Costly BUIS must also be purchased as well as the throw lever mount in case the optic should fail.

Now, im not trying to sell anyone on the ACOG but I wonder why we dont see more of them. In the pictures threads aimpoints and eotech aiming systems are a dime a dozen, but i think ive only seen the compact acog once or twice. Is there something I am missing, some huge disadvantage to the ACOG? The reason i ask is im building another tactical carbine and i am having a hard time deciding on optics.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:16:00 AM EST
1.5x isn't user friendly for some people.
Acogs are not always lit up perfect in every situation.
A used Aimpoint ML2 with a LaRue mount and LaRue BUIS is usually cheaper than a compact ACOG.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:47:13 AM EST
bad eye relief is my #1 reason, try sitting in the back seat of a car, leaning out a door, aiming to the back of car, going 45 mph and trying to engage targets...the eotechs and aimpoints were much better then my acog NSN, couldnt imagine using something even smaller.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 6:08:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 6:02:52 AM EST by Hokie]

Originally Posted By Airborne2000:
bad eye relief is my #1 reason, try sitting in the back seat of a car, leaning out a door, aiming to the back of car, going 45 mph and trying to engage targets...the eotechs and aimpoints were much better then my acog NSN, couldnt imagine using something even smaller.


LOL!!!

What action movie did you star in again? Matrix 2? Ronin? Heat? Just pushing your buttons. All in good fun.

I know the compact ACOGs have better eye relief that the NSN. Isn't hard to do considering the NSN is 1.5". That said, there's nothing on the market that beats a holographic red dot sight for <100 yard minute of man shooting. The 1.5 ACOG's do a great job of providing the shooter with a crystal-clear-any-light-no-battery optic. Keep in mind the ACOG's work on the bindon aiming concept. That means both eyes open. If done properly the compact 1.5 ACOG can be a great optic for (in my opinion anyway) 50-100 yard shooting. Having owned a Leupold 1.5, a Compact ACOG 1.5, and tried a few others, I drew my own personal conclusion (for what little it's actually worth) that 1.5X fixed magnification is best served 50-100 yards.

I think the 1.5 ACOG is limited in it's design, but most certainly functional, and world's better than irons .... show me an optic that doesn't have a draw back. Lastly, there's no such thing as a bad ACOG.

Stacked up to an EoTech or Aimpoint, the 1.5 ACOG is disadvantaged <50 yards, but has some comparative advantages 50-100 yards. Beyond that I think there are better options such as the TA11 or TA33 or TR21R or the NF 1-4NXS or Meopta KDot or etc etc etc. Again, my opinion. Good luck! I'm sure others will chime in with different perspectives. Topics like these usually net a bunch of passionate responses!
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 6:29:04 AM EST
It isn't that the compact ACOG is bad...just that it isn't good at anything.

They FOV is tiny even with the BAC because your eye is focusing on the magnified picture. The trangle can bloom. This is worse in amber.

Height over bore...

BUIS with the CH is like looking through a straw.

Fragile fiber optic.

HORRID for shooting on the move or from moving vehicles (and yes, we do that).
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:03:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By CaTalystX:
I was going over this in my head. For a short range tactical setup, why wouldnt somebody want a 1.5 or 2x ACOG instead of an EOTECH or Aimpoint.

The ACOG can be mounted on the carry handle which eliminates the need to buy costly BUIS and also provides absolute cowitness using the standard iron sights. It also provides a small amount of magnification to better engage/identify targets beyond 100 yards. Its reliability is unmatched and all of the compact ACOGs feature BAC so both eyes can be open when aiming. No batteries required for illumination and features both a fiber optic tube and tritium for illumination.

With an EOTECH, they are of questionable reliability when it comes to maintaining a zero, costly iron sights and usually a throw lever mount must be purchased since if the plastic panel is damaged or shattered it can be ripped off easily to use said expensive iron sights. It provides no magnification w/o a costly magnifier and is limited in illumination by battery power.

With an AIMPOINT, they are also rugged/reliable and maintain a zero, but provide no magnification w/o a costly magnifier. Costly BUIS must also be purchased as well as the throw lever mount in case the optic should fail.

Now, im not trying to sell anyone on the ACOG but I wonder why we dont see more of them. In the pictures threads aimpoints and eotech aiming systems are a dime a dozen, but i think ive only seen the compact acog once or twice. Is there something I am missing, some huge disadvantage to the ACOG? The reason i ask is im building another tactical carbine and i am having a hard time deciding on optics.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You can't co witness with a magnified optic. If the optic is on the carry handle you will not have a great cheak weld. Secondly magnified optics are not as fast. I hate fixed power magnified optics. I tried a TA31 ACOG for a while and did not like it. I have played with a few friends 2 x and 1.5 x compact acogs but I found them slow compared to the Eotech. If you want magnification a lower power variable scope is a better option in my opinion. I much prefer my 1.25-4 power accupoint to any of the fixed power ACOGs. I also prefer my Eotech to the fixed power ACOGS.

Pat
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:14:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 1:17:41 PM EST by usncorpsman1]
I personally find the 1.5X16 compact acog very easy to shoot with on the move. I use it with a Larue mount mounted directly on the rail. It has a great FOV and good eye relief. I hate all the 4x acogs. The eye relief is wayyyy to short. For pure speed, the Eotech or Aimpoint is the way to go. I actually have a compact for sale right now, but only because I need a variable power scope for a midlength.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:21:12 PM EST
For me.. it's pretty simple

-No Co Witness with Magnified Optics (I hate optics on a carry handle)
-Slower within 50meters then my Aimpoint
-Not as bright at night then my Aimpoint
-1.5X mag is not enough for me at longer ranges.


There is just nothing about it that does anything for me...My other Optic is a TA-11ACOG.. that does work well at longer ranges..

I suspect that a lot of folks feel the way I do and thus the reason for it's lack of popularity...it's not a bad optic.. just does not do things I want it to do....
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 8:30:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 8:31:39 PM EST by dubb-1]
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 10:57:09 PM EST
Problems with Compact ACOG on carry handle?

BAC does not coinside with non BAC POA/POI (bullet never strikes at aiming point).
BAC does not work at night with a weapon light. A HUGE disadvantage.
1.5X is not as easy to use as a red dot yet offers no real help in accuracy at longer ranges. IMO its the most worthless of compact ACOGs.
Height over bore is more than many like.
You are giving up unlimited eye relief and exit pupil for no good reason.

I cant imagine why anyone would be foolish enough to go for this set up over an Aimpoint or EOtech unless they had not used the optics in question and were making decisions based of of reading product brochures. I like the 2X compact ACOG but it is still not a replacement for the Aimpoint or EOtech.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:12:44 PM EST
My favorite ACOG of the several i have owned is the 2x compact with amber triangle.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:19:06 PM EST
For what you are getting I think that the compact ACOG is amazingly overpriced as well.


-BJohnson
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:21:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By BJohnson383:
For what you are getting I think that the compact ACOG is amazingly overpriced as well.


-BJohnson


They are now.

I got mine for $525.00 delivered and thought that was pretty high at the time. Now they are close to $800.00!!!
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 11:46:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 11:50:48 PM EST by mauiblue]
I bought my Compact ACOG TA47-6 about three months ago and I am enjoying it every time I go out to the range. I shoot the max distance of my range which is 216 yards and the 2X magnification is enough for me at that distance to hit center mass on my silhouette targets. I'm sure that I will be shooting within 50 yards in SHTF situations and regarding HD the lower magnification will allow me to use it in CQB distances unlike the larger ACOG counterparts.

I think most don't get into the Compact ACOG scopes because they are expensive and there are other alternatives that will meet their needs and are less expensive. I found that in my EOTech 512 coupled with the 3X EOTech magnifier. But I still enjoy having the TA47-6.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:53:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 4:55:10 AM EST by Duffy]
Because I like my 4x32 ACOGs a lot more. Looked through a 1.5X compact ACOG and thought it was neither here nor there, 1.5X hardly seems to have any magnification, and its FOV is a far cry from the 4x32 ACOGs 36.80 at 100yds.

As to the "fragility" of the fiber optics, when cracked and leaking they are no worse off, so it's a non-issue.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:52:05 PM EST
Just to clairify a little...alot is being said about the 1.5X but not much about the 2X. I can see how the aimpoint might be better for quick acquisition and when using a weapon light. However i am still not sold on the EOTECH because what good is fast target acquisition if your scope isnt zeroed.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 4:55:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By CaTalystX:
Just to clairify a little...alot is being said about the 1.5X but not much about the 2X. I can see how the aimpoint might be better for quick acquisition and when using a weapon light. However i am still not sold on the EOTECH because what good is fast target acquisition if your scope isnt zeroed.

My Eotechs have ran fine.
Pat
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 6:10:34 PM EST
They are "questionable" i have had three and only one of them held a zero and even that one wasnt every time. I own stock in L3, i do like their company. Their product does need some refining however.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:21:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By CaTalystX:
They are "questionable" i have had three and only one of them held a zero and even that one wasnt every time. I own stock in L3, i do like their company. Their product does need some refining however.

I have had 3 as well and only one had to go back for a zero problem. But I understand your sentiments if you have a bad experience it is hard to trust a product. I just ordered the 557 with the 4x magnifier so I hope it works as good as my past Eotechs.
Pat
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