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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/17/2006 6:27:12 AM EDT
I understand that flash suppression is vital at night to keeping your position as hidden as possible, but after shooting a good comp on my 20" AR versus a standard A2 FS, the difference in the ability to maintain target in sights/scope for fast shooting & follow-up shots is amazing! I know 3-gunners and USPSA folks swear by a good comp on their AR to even be competetive. Don't most good comps with a multi-chamber design like my Benney Cooley comp, or Miculek, suppress most muzzle flash by porting the gas to the sides? Major bonus of added hit capability to boot. The only downside I see is the added noise to the sides of the shooter from the comp. I'm sure I'm showing my ignorance on this topic

Thanks for any and all feedback.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:35:06 AM EDT
Because Rock Island Arsenal has not approved it. Once they do then Colt's will ship them out that way.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:56:47 AM EDT
Flash hiders are for protecting your night vision. (your eyes and/or a NOD)

No flash hider will mask your position. If you are on the muzzle end of an AR you can always see some muzzle flash.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:08:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 7:14:13 AM EDT by mr_wilson]

Originally Posted By demigod:
Flash hiders are for protecting your night vision. (your eyes and/or a NOD)

No flash hider will mask your position. If you are on the muzzle end of an AR you can always see some muzzle flash.





This is a flash "hider":



and yes it is designed to protect your NV and mask your shooting position.



THIS on the other hand is a flash "suppressor", to which you comments above were intended.....





Don't be confusing the s with improper terminology.

Mike
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:10:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 7:11:16 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
They are louder than hell without ear protection. Much louder than 5.56 normally is.....

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:19:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BWhalen:
Don't most good comps with a multi-chamber design like my Benney Cooley comp, or Miculek, suppress most muzzle flash by porting the gas to the sides?


That does not reduce the flash it merely moves some of it to a different location.

At the same time sending lots of blast toward your fellow team members (not a good thing).


Major bonus of added hit capability to boot.

It does not improve your ability to hit - just improves your ability to do a follow up shot.

Then again proper training will do most of that for you.

I'd much rather have a low flash signature and not deafen my team-mates then improve my follow-up shot by time by 0.05 seconds. Place the first shot properly and you'll minimize the need for a follow-up.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:42:20 AM EDT
They should use YHM Phantom 5C-2s. They are very effective at both.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:04:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:12:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

I'd much rather have a low flash signature and not deafen my team-mates then improve my follow-up shot by time by 0.05 seconds. Place the first shot properly and you'll minimize the need for a follow-up.



That's an interesting perspective. Thanks or your feedback Forest.

I hadn't thought that the increases noise would matter much with all the sounds of war exploding and reporting around you (M1A1 main gun, TOW, M249, M60, motars) <shoulder shrug>. I've seen several shows on TV of real life street fighting with the US Army and insurgents in Iraq. Lots of times, it's 30~80 yard engagements with several Haji's, and the return fire from our soldiers was not a series of single, well-aimed shots. It looked and sounded more like 2~3 shots, then assessment of the target. Dead? Alive? If no, keep shooting. Maybe this is atypical of street fights and MOUT with the Army, but I have to say after watching these programs, if I was a grunt (and I make no claim to know what they want or need in combat) "I" would want anything that increases my accuracy and speed to re-engage a target (or multiple targets) with my weapon. The BC comp I have on my 20" A3 is so effective, my TA31 scope reticle hardly moves at 50 yard targets. I can make secondary shots almost like a pistol double-tap.

YMMV
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:17:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BWhalen:
I hadn't thought that the increases noise would matter much with all the sounds of war exploding and reporting around you (M1A1 main gun, TOW, M249, M60, motars) <shoulder shrug>....



Having spent 3 days at Blackwater next to a guy with a Bushmaster 3-port Y-Comp I can tell you right now that it takes some getting used to.

Even after you are used to it, if you are concentrating, ready to send rounds downrange and he fires, the momentary air displacement breaks your concentration, just a little.

I can't imagine having a whole squad within a small area with them going on full auto.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:20:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BWhalen:
I hadn't thought that the increases noise would matter much with all the sounds of war exploding and reporting around you (M1A1 main gun, TOW, M249, M60, motars) <shoulder shrug>.
[/qutoe]

There is a difference between somthing going on "near" you and the side blast from some of these comps where you are standing a couple of yards (or closer) to the side..


and the return fire from our soldiers was not a series of single, well-aimed shots. It looked and sounded more like 2~3 shots, then assessment of the target. Dead? Alive? If no, keep shooting.

Yep fights vary - shoot till they are down. Skill varies some soldiers shoot better than others.

I can make secondary shots almost like a pistol double-tap.


Many people can do this with proper training. They won't be X ring hits - but you don't need X ring hits for CQB/MOUT.

I could see wanting a comp on something like a DMR/RECCE type where you will be shooting somewhat precise and possible have a lot of targets at range. I know Wes has posted pics of some of the kit's he's sent overseas that include both a Comp and a FS and the operator selects the muzzle device as needed. However, for the average soldier under typical conditions the FS seems to offer more.

Now, just thinking out loud, if the military could find a powder with less flash (or swith to Mk262 which is pretty low flash) I'd think a brake like the Levang (which throws the sound down range) would make alot of sense.
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