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Posted: 4/17/2006 6:51:16 PM EST
I got in a debate earlier with my buddy about barrel length. Now, I know you lose more velocity with a 14.5" barrel; I know that a 16" barrel will keep the bullet above 2700 fps for an additional 50 yards (approx) or so. This is all well and good, but I don't think 16" barrels *totally* render 14.5" barreled rifles useless, especially as CQB weapons.

Anyway, I don't want a flame war here. Just wondering why so many of you decided in the end to go with a 14.5" barrel, just as I did recently with a midlength.

Keep it lighthearted guys, I have faith we can avoid a pissing contest.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:54:26 PM EST
I asked the same question a few weeks ago....


www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=272599
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:57:54 PM EST
umm.....huh. Should have used the search function.............right.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 6:58:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 7:00:55 PM EST by usp8riot]
Cuz it's so tacticool! And my location is mountains and trees, no stretching plains or fields anywhere so I don't plan on having to snipe a deer at 3-400+ yards. And in the rare case I think I needed a longer barrell, I'd just order one later to have the best of both worlds.

Edit: And who knows, if we get a lib. president again, they might start banning them again, same with the mags, suppressors, etc so I want to get while the getting's good.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:01:10 PM EST
Because I like it and it works just fine without the extra 1.5 inches.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:01:58 PM EST
i had some silver solder that i had to use for something.


actually i really don't notice much difference, except my bayonette fits on the 14.5.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:11:28 PM EST
If makes tight spaces easier to navigate and it's more evil.

TS
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:20:11 PM EST
I have one of each. Its the only way to do, Its the AR15.com way. You MUST have a 14.5, 16, 18, 20, and a 24. I'm still working on th 18 and 20 but soon.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:26:11 PM EST
I like the shorter feel. Although it is hella loud compaired to a 20"
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:26:12 PM EST
I have 11.5, 14.5, and 20" I have uses for them all too.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:32:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:
I have 11.5, 14.5, and 20" I have uses for them all too.



11.5" ARs sure are sexy, unfortunately SBR aren't legal in MIchigan...
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:41:43 PM EST
I just put together an 11.5/5.5 on an A1 upper, a la commando clone. Lets just say that the muzzle flash is a wee bit excessive........we were laughing at the range because someone thought my "flash-supressor" was broken.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:45:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By mco119:
... I know you lose more velocity with a 14.5" barrel; I know that a 16" barrel will keep the bullet above 2700 fps for an additional 50 yards (approx) or so. ...;)]



You're dreaming if you think you get an extra 50 yards. Try 15 (that is ONE FIVE) yards.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 7:56:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 7:56:35 PM EST by Zarathustra1]
Because a 14.5" with a Phantom FH is a good inch shorter overall than a 16" with an A2 FH.

It is as short as you are going to get without going NFA.

Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:01:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 8:03:13 PM EST by Colt_sporter]
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:14:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By mco119:
... I know you lose more velocity with a 14.5" barrel; I know that a 16" barrel will keep the bullet above 2700 fps for an additional 50 yards (approx) or so. ...;)]



You're dreaming if you think you get an extra 50 yards. Try 15 (that is ONE FIVE) yards.



can't remember where I got the 50 yards figure.......I think it was ammo oracle, and I think it was actually more like 45 yards. Not a lot, in any case......
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:17:31 PM EST
My POF upper came that way. I got a great deal, and didnt care. I like the vortex brake, and the short overall length.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:17:52 PM EST

Because I like it and it works just fine without the extra 1.5 inches.


Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:34:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By xLucidx:

Because I like it and it works just fine without the extra 1.5 inches.





Is that what she said?

I agree, it's better than the 16"+A2. I wanted compact for plinking and easy transport, but not so much that I have to file fargin paperwork on it. My 20" Varmint Death Machine handles anything at longer ranges.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:50:32 PM EST
I like a 14.5 so that its a "true m4" And shooting up to 300 yards, I cant tell a difference between my 14.5 and 20.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:18:06 PM EST
Since there are no SBRs (yet) in MI, I'd much rather have a proper 16" than a 14.5+long-ass FH.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:26:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By mco119:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By mco119:
... I know you lose more velocity with a 14.5" barrel; I know that a 16" barrel will keep the bullet above 2700 fps for an additional 50 yards (approx) or so. ...;)]



You're dreaming if you think you get an extra 50 yards. Try 15 (that is ONE FIVE) yards.



can't remember where I got the 50 yards figure.......I think it was ammo oracle, and I think it was actually more like 45 yards. Not a lot, in any case......



I think the ammo oracle says 50 yards but I have not looked at in ages. I would like to know if it was 15 or 50 yards. Anyone know?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:29:20 PM EST
Cause it was the only one they had at the gunshop when I went to buy a carbine and due to the money being on the verge of flashpoint in my pocket I got the 14.5".

Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:33:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 10:34:47 PM EST by Luvman]

Originally Posted By DM1975:
Because I like it and it works just fine without the extra 1.5 inches.




+1
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 10:39:22 PM EST
because.

Then why have a 16" when you could have a 17.5"...?


Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:14:35 AM EST
Lighter and more manueverable than my 16" H bar. Plus it has a good CDI factor.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:17:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Since there are no SBRs (yet) in MI, I'd much rather have a proper 16" than a 14.5+long-ass FH.



+1

If SBRs were legal in MI, I'd get a 11.5" or so barrel, not a 14.5"

16" at least gives me the flexibility of removing the flash suppressor and re-installing it w/o dremeling the flash suppressor or dicking around with silver solder and pins
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:51:42 AM EST
Because the Military use them.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:52:38 AM EST
I didn't realize mine was 14.5 till I got home and set it in the safe next to my 16 inch middy. I wasn't looking for the 14.5, I just got a fairly decent deal.

BK
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:02:38 AM EST
Main reason is I wanted shortest overall legal barrel length possible with a flash suppressor still attached.


The fact that a bayonet fits nicely on the 14.5 is just additional fluff.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:15:33 AM EST
It's the bbl I am most familiar with.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:32:30 AM EST
My 16" M4 is basically a 14.5" M4 with an extra length of barrel (light under handguards, M203 cut, M203 cuts on front handguard ring) How does that make the barrel "unfamiliar"?
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:50:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By mco119:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By mco119:
... I know you lose more velocity with a 14.5" barrel; I know that a 16" barrel will keep the bullet above 2700 fps for an additional 50 yards (approx) or so. ...;)]



You're dreaming if you think you get an extra 50 yards. Try 15 (that is ONE FIVE) yards.



can't remember where I got the 50 yards figure.......I think it was ammo oracle, and I think it was actually more like 45 yards. Not a lot, in any case......



BC of M193 projectile: .243

MV of M193 from a 16" barrel: 3132 fps
MV of M193 from a 14.5" barrel: 3064fps

assumed standard atmospheric conditions at 1400' ASL

Run your favorite ballistics software, I use PBX mostly.

From PBX I get 2708fps @ 110y for a 16"
and 2720 fps @ 90y for a 14.5" (2700 should be just about 95y as at 100y it's 2683fps).

Hmm looks like it's about 15y to me.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:56:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 7:33:17 AM EST by Molon]
IMI M193 is the closest ammo I've found to U.S. military specs for M193. Out of my chrome lined Colt 14.5" barrels with NATO chambers the best IMI M193 will do is about a 3000 FPS muzzle velocity. Same ammo out of my Colt 16" barrels runs between 3100 and 3128 FPS muzzle velocity.

Running these numbers through Oehler's Ballistic Explorer software gives a difference of 25 to 30 yards for the 2700 FPS threshold.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:42:40 AM EST
I wanted as short an AR as possible without paying a $200 tax stamp. My M4gery is designed for close in stuff (<100) so frag range is not an issue. I'm not fond of the perm. muzzle device thing, I don't feel its as big of an issue as some would have you believe.

Just my $.02
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:53:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By cgv69:
I wanted as short an AR as possible without paying a $200 tax stamp. My M4gery is designed for close in stuff (<100) so frag range is not an issue. I'm not fond of the perm. muzzle device thing, I don't feel its as big of an issue as some would have you believe.

Just my $.02



exactly my thoughts. I bought a 14.5" middy because I intend on using it (in the unlikely event it is ever fired in anger) within 100 yards. In all likelyhood, an engagement would happen within 50 yards. If I need to make shots at long distances I'll reach for my FAL. So if I know I'll use it within 100 yards, why not have a rifle that is a bit better balanced, more manuverable, and handier? I don't like the idea of a perm. attached hider either, but the Phantom works very well and I don't see every needing to replace it.

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:31:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By uglygun:
Main reason is I wanted shortest overall legal barrel length possible with a flash suppressor still attached.



+1
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:00:57 AM EST
For me it was simple, I already have a 24”, 20”, and 11.5” inch. That’s why I got a 14”
Still need a 16” though.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:04:36 AM EST
Back in the late 90's the best price I could get was on 14.5" barrels (YTM, remember them?). The 16" LLW barrels were not available. So I added a Vortex to each. Still shooting them today.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:55:59 AM EST
I own a 14.5" barrel because I haven't had a chance to dump it after putting the 10.5" on.



Link Posted: 4/18/2006 11:00:35 AM EST
because I can
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 11:34:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:
Cause it was the only one they had at the gunshop when I went to buy a carbine and due to the money being on the verge of flashpoint in my pocket I got the 14.5".




+1
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:16:02 PM EST
According to http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff the 16" gives about 50 more yards of reliable fragmentation with M193 and M855 over a 14.5" barrel.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:25:32 PM EST
I own a 14.5" because I got a terrific deal on a post-ban A2 HBAR Bushmaster AK brake model.
I feel that these were some of the best rifles Bushmaster ever produced and were available at very good prices new in the box.

When the Clinton ban ended it got the no-ban treatment. (Bipod for photo shoot only.)



Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:45:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By MADM16A1:
I own a 14.5" barrel because I haven't had a chance to dump it after putting the 10.5" on.

hr


First off, you suck!Mine followed me home so I decided to keep it.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:19:26 PM EST

(Bipod for photo shoot only.)



What brand is that bipod?
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:35:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Molon:

(Bipod for photo shoot only.)



What brand is that bipod?



It's a GG&G Standard Tactical Bipod.
It's normal home is on my 20" gov prof.



Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:38:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
Because a 14.5" with a Phantom FH is a good inch shorter overall than a 16" with an A2 FH.

It is as short as you are going to get without going NFA.





That was my exact reasoning too. That, and because I can.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:47:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 3:50:41 PM EST by Capn_Crunch]
Edited... Wrong thread.

The 14.5" M4 barrel is inexpensive, lightweight, and easy to maneuver with. you couln't ask for a much better rifle to walk around the property with.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:48:49 PM EST
I like the 14.5 w/the Phantom because the pig sticker looks right on the 14.5 barrel:

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:10:54 PM EST
I had a 14.5" + permanent Phantom because it was the shortest I could have in this state (no SBR).

But I discovered that by going with a 16" with an A2 it was only an inch longer, I gain some velocity, and I have the midlength gas option. Seemed like a good trade. I haven't read of too many 14.5" mid-length gas setups.

BTW this was on my MRP so the switch took me about two minutes.
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