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Posted: 6/6/2007 9:40:15 PM EDT
I definitely see the benefit on underloading mags. I find it easier to insert with a closed bolt. However, I typically load 29 rounds in a 30 round mag. Why do some people load 28. What's the method to the madness?
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 9:41:25 PM EDT
[#1]
some?  i'd say it's about 95% of ARFCOM.  


i do it because all the cool kids do!
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 9:46:40 PM EDT
[#2]
its a 30 round mag. i load 30 into them and have never had a problem.
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 9:52:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Tinfoil too tight?


30 in a 30.
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 9:58:48 PM EDT
[#4]
30 works great if you are always loading with an open bolt, but otherwise I load to 28, sometimes to 29, when I find an extra round sitting around, I'll put it in the top of the magazine, but if I were to load to 29, then the extra round would screw me up by going to 30...

see?  It's all ferpectly logical...
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 10:56:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Just get some PMAGs.  No need to download them, as I have found that inserting them on a closed bolt with 30 rounds is easier then many USGI mags with 28.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 6:08:26 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
its a 30 round mag. i load 30 into them and have never had a problem.


Same for me, though I'm just a casual shooter.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 6:28:25 AM EDT
[#7]
I've always off loaded my mags.  Maybe if I was going to Mogadishu I'd top them off completely, but that's not a realistic scenario right now.

The 28 system, which I used to think was nutty, gives you an even number of rounds.  Thus you're always stripping your first round off of the right side of the mag.

I actually like the idea now that I apply it across the board.  You can tell that you successfully chambered a round by pulling the mag out and looking.

Link Posted: 6/7/2007 10:14:15 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
I've always off loaded my mags.  Maybe if I was going to Mogadishu I'd top them off completely, but that's not a realistic scenario right now.

The 28 system, which I used to think was nutty, gives you an even number of rounds.  Thus you're always stripping your first round off of the right side of the mag.

I actually like the idea now that I apply it across the board.  You can tell that you successfully chambered a round by pulling the mag out and looking.



Does your AR choke when it has to strip rounds off the left first?  Does it ever choke stripping rounds off the left at any point when emptying a mag?

If you loaded to 29, could you not just as easily tell if you chambered a round by still pulling the mag out and looking at it?  I realize you'd have to look at the other side than if you loaded 28, but the same principle still applies.

[/sarcasm off] Just bustin' balls.  I don't really care either way.  I load 30's with 30 rounds if I can, or load to 29 if they have a ranger plate, since 30 is just to tight a fit.

Link Posted: 6/7/2007 10:17:40 AM EDT
[#9]
28 seemed like a better number than 29, Only my PMags get loaded to capacity
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:26:35 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

If you loaded to 29, could you not just as easily tell if you chambered a round by still pulling the mag out and looking at it?  I realize you'd have to look at the other side than if you loaded 28, but the same principle still applies.



Industry standard is 28.  You're free to buck the system all you want however!
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:30:53 AM EDT
[#11]
I didn't realize it was Thursday. Then I saw this thread. I need to go and mark my calendar.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:32:41 AM EDT
[#12]
I download mine to 27.5
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#13]
I think it's just a convention. I haven't figured out why people use 28 instead of 29 either.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:55:23 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
I download mine to 27.5


I heard that's bad for the blast baffle!
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:56:21 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
I think it's just a convention. I haven't figured out why people use 28 instead of 29 either.


If you offload 14 mags, you have 28 extra rounds for mag number 15!
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 11:57:19 AM EDT
[#16]
 I load 28 so that the first round is always stripped off the right side.
When I pull the mag, if the next round isn't on the left, I know i'm not loaded.
Just one of those little training quirks.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#17]
I download two rounds because I read somewhere when I was in highschool that the right side feed ramp was more reliable on an AR.

Link Posted: 6/7/2007 2:59:22 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
I download two rounds because I read somewhere when I was in highschool that the right side feed ramp was more reliable on an AR.




Link Posted: 6/7/2007 3:24:19 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think it's just a convention. I haven't figured out why people use 28 instead of 29 either.


If you offload 14 mags, you have 28 extra rounds for mag number 15!






Not that this is part of the reason for me
7 boxes = 5 mags with no strays rounds
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 5:46:19 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
 I load 28 so that the first round is always stripped off the right side.
When I pull the mag, if the next round isn't on the left, I know i'm not loaded.
Just one of those little training quirks.


Ok, so here's one method to the madness.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 5:48:40 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

If you offload 14 mags, you have 28 extra rounds for mag number 15!


This makes sence also.


I definitely realize the benefit to downloading mags.  Now I see additional reasons to losd to 28 and not 29.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 4:07:25 AM EDT
[#22]
The way I understand it is that it's to assist in tactical (on the go) magazine changes.  Often this is occurring on a closed bolt.  It is a bit more difficult to fully seat a magazine on a closed bolt when there are 30 rounds in it.  I have seen people on run and gun ranges that have to do a tactical reload on a closed bolt where they think it's seated only to see the mag fall to the ground while on the move.  I know several people in the desert that their SOP has them loading to capacity - 2.

ETA:  Not sure on the 29 vs. 28 though.  Even numbers?  Top round in mag positioned the same as if full load for consistency?
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 5:52:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Let's hope someone introduces a 32-round magazine so everyone will be comfortable loading 30 rounds into their magazines.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 6:06:01 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If you offload 14 mags, you have 28 extra rounds for mag number 15!


This makes sence also.


I definitely realize the benefit to downloading mags.  Now I see additional reasons to losd to 28 and not 29.

You could stay with downloading to 29 rds, then after loading 29 mags, you will have enough ammo for 1 more mag!  
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 7:30:56 AM EDT
[#25]
For me it's habit after 25 years in the Army. It's jsut a litte easier to load a fresh mag on a closed bolt with 28 rds than 30.If those 2 rounds make a difference in a firefight, either I can't hit shit or it's a very target rich environment.

I have had older USGI mags loaded to 30 rounds that seated but I had to slap hard on the mag bottom. As soon as I pulled the bolt to the rear, the first round popped up and jumped past he feed lips. Probably just old week feed lips.

WOILA! Instant double feed.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 7:42:00 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
You could stay with downloading to 29 rds, then after loading 29 mags, you will have enough ammo for 1 more mag!  


I was waiting for someone to say that.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 8:11:23 AM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
Just get some PMAGs.  No need to download them, as I have found that inserting them on a closed bolt with 30 rounds is easier then many USGI mags with 28.


I've seen it over and over in PR matches.  During a mandatory mag change (on a closed bolt), a guy will insert the fresh mag and after the first shot there's a miss-fire (FTF).  Reason is the mag didn't seat as in the rush to change mags they didn't slam it home hard enough.  Guys that download don't the problem.

Downloaded 1 round is enough (29) for me.  After 29 mags, you have enough spare rounds for another mag

I haven't checked if the PMAG solves this problem or not but look forward to testing it.

Link Posted: 6/8/2007 9:44:17 AM EDT
[#28]
I'm guessing the guys who bitch about having to download their mags have probably replaced the spring, the follower, the floorplate, generally altered the mag from mfg spec as much as possible.  You start dicking with the design, you're probably going to have to deal with some issues.

However, any factory mag that can't be reliably inserted full on a closed bolt can only be called defective...or the shooter is a limp wristed pansy who's afraid of scratching his expensive rifle.

There's no two ways about it, it's either a training issue, or a defective mag issue (wait, that's  "two ways" after all).    or it's just baseless repetition of urban-AR myth.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 10:02:20 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
I'm guessing the guys who bitch about having to download their mags have probably replaced the spring, the follower, the floorplate, generally altered the mag from mfg spec as much as possible.  You start dicking with the design, you're probably going to have to deal with some issues.

However, any factory mag that can't be reliably inserted full on a closed bolt can only be called defective...or the shooter is a limp wristed pansy who's afraid of scratching his expensive rifle.

There's no two ways about it, it's either a training issue, or a defective mag issue (wait, that's  "two ways" after all).    or it's just baseless repetition of urban-AR myth.




I guess We'll all have to get some good training from you!

There's no question that it's a real issue.  I've run black follwers USGI mags for years.  I've never loaded my mags to 30.  Typically in class, I'll run them 24 or 26 rounds, and the problem still occassionally occurs.

Now of course I give the mag the push/pull so I don't have it fall out like a dumb ass.  But I've struggled with Bone stock, non damaged, USGI mags before.  And I ain't no pip squeak, Ricky Bobby!
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 11:26:35 AM EDT
[#30]
my only experience is combat, so it is probably not relevant to this discussion.  we went with 30 in a 30 and i never had trouble with a mag change.  
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 11:30:48 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
my only experience is combat, so it is probably not relevant to this discussion.  we went with 30 in a 30 and i never had trouble with a mag change.  


In your experience did you do tactical reloads (bolt closed, round chambered) or did you do mag changes only on bolt lock?
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 11:37:22 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
my only experience is combat, so it is probably not relevant to this discussion.  we went with 30 in a 30 and i never had trouble with a mag change.  


In your experience did you do tactical reloads (bolt closed, round chambered) or did you do mag changes only on bolt lock?


both, though usually open bolt.  most closed bolt reloads will be done during a lull in the action or from behind cover, so you can take your time and seat the mag.  someone else may be a better man than i, but you don't count rounds (hence the open bolt), and if you did, you would count the incoming and not the outgoing.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 11:39:02 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
my only experience is combat, so it is probably not relevant to this discussion.  we went with 30 in a 30 and i never had trouble with a mag change.  


Your situation is totally relevant.  That situation coupled with the necessity to do tactical reloads is often why someone would want to download their mags.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 11:41:35 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think it's just a convention. I haven't figured out why people use 28 instead of 29 either.


If you offload 14 mags, you have 28 extra rounds for mag number 15!


I'm no good at math.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 11:42:52 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
my only experience is combat, so it is probably not relevant to this discussion.  we went with 30 in a 30 and i never had trouble with a mag change.  


Your situation is totally relevant.  That situation coupled with the necessity to do tactical reloads is often why someone would want to download their mags.


read above, i did not do many tactical (closed bolt reloads).  most were open bolt.  others may have had a different experience.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 12:55:04 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
my only experience is combat, so it is probably not relevant to this discussion.  we went with 30 in a 30 and i never had trouble with a mag change.  


Your situation is totally relevant.  That situation coupled with the necessity to do tactical reloads is often why someone would want to download their mags.


read above, i did not do many tactical (closed bolt reloads).  most were open bolt.  others may have had a different experience.


Sorry...I started my post just before you submitted yours.  Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 4:46:24 PM EDT
[#37]
30 in a 30

20 in a 20
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 6:09:34 PM EDT
[#38]
On an open bolt, i'd say load to capacity otherwise 28 or 29 depending on your prefrence. Subtracting one or two rounds from capacity does make loading easier. If it didn't, people would'nt do it just for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 6/9/2007 6:49:27 PM EDT
[#39]
I've heard of some people relieving the underside of the bolt carrier (where round #30 makes contact) when loading on a closed bolt to make seating a full magazine easier. Downloading to 28 instead of 29 for extra insurance would make the round contact the same relieved area.
Link Posted: 6/9/2007 7:16:09 PM EDT
[#40]
I've downloaded mags and mixed them up with fully loaded mags and seated them trying to tell the difference between them. I can't feel any difference at all. The only thing I can feel is the slight varience in mag catch hole location making some a little harder to seat than others, downloading two rnds has no effects whatsoever on them. All my mags are D&H and T-65's with magpul followers. I load to capacity.
Link Posted: 6/10/2007 7:01:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Because you cant insert a full 30 round mag into a gun with a closed bolt.

Have any of you ever heard of tactical reloads?

It's not the latest "tacticool" trend, it's a real solution to a real problem.
Link Posted: 6/10/2007 9:58:44 AM EDT
[#42]
28 in a 30er, 18 in a 20!

In a typical 9mm mag I download one round. For long term storege 2. Sig Sauer, BHP: 12 rds if expecting trouble, 11 for regular duty. Of course ALWAYS with a spare mag.

In the Glock I load 15. ( G 17 )

I am REALLY convinced, that the last bit of spring depression ( the last or last two rounds ) do the most to weaken the spring.

In the 1911 I use 7, but NEVER use an 8 rd mag ( because of follower design ) and even if I would, I would never load more than 7.

S & W: use all holes in the cylinder ( I like this principle in several ways ;-)) )

SAA: omit one hole ( one doesn´t always omit the same hole, so its a nice thing to do, too ;-))

H
Link Posted: 6/10/2007 10:00:10 AM EDT
[#43]
offloading two rounds compensates for the "M"Plate additional weight...
Link Posted: 6/10/2007 10:07:38 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
offloading two rounds compensates for the "M"Plate additional weight...


That's right!  Always sub gear for ammo when weight is at stake!
Link Posted: 6/10/2007 1:26:31 PM EDT
[#45]
It's probably smart to download certain mags by at least 1. Like it has been stated, it makes it easier to load on a closed bolt and probably extends spring life. The 1 less round IMO is way offset by the ease of insertion and wear and tear on your mag and or rifle.
Link Posted: 6/11/2007 8:33:36 AM EDT
[#46]
i load all my mags to capacity. never had an issue, not once. i have put tens of thousands of rounds through my sig 220, 226, and HK p2000SK  without an issue.
AR i have D&H mags and Cproducts mags, all loaded to 30 rounds each and every time.
if this was a real issue, it would be in the manuals that accompany a rifle for LEO and mil to read and follow.

edit:
spring life is affected by the number of times you compress and uncompress the spring. mags have been found loaded since WWII and they functioned just fine.
Link Posted: 6/11/2007 8:47:56 AM EDT
[#47]
YMMV, but like markm, I load 28 in my 30 round AR15 mags.

The reason:

I have owned a M1 garand for quite some time and a "properly" loaded enbloc clip has the initial feed round on the right, so I out of habit I always want my first round outta my AR15 mags feeding from the right position.

mike

ps - personally I love folks that say ALWAYS load 30 in your 30 round mags..........., they are generally the ones with follow up threads later in the year  headed "FTF or FTE w/ my AR"
Link Posted: 6/11/2007 9:02:56 AM EDT
[#48]
The idea originated in the Marine Corps, the idea being that every soldier gets to practice his counting up to 28.
Link Posted: 6/11/2007 9:03:00 AM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:
its a 30 round mag. i load 30 into them and have never had a problem.



Same here.


Though when I go to Pat Rogers class, when he says 28, I'll load 28
Link Posted: 6/11/2007 8:34:43 PM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:
Let's hope someone introduces a 32-round magazine so everyone will be comfortable loading 30 rounds into their magazines.


Then there will just be another debate on whether to load 32, 31, or 30 rounds.

I've seen too many dropped mags to load 30; so I download.

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