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Posted: 7/19/2005 5:58:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 10:36:18 AM EDT by AlCapone]
Every one talks Eotech this and that .......

What makes the military tried and true Aimpont crap?

hinking.gif

Or am I just taking it the wrong way?
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 6:01:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 6:10:21 PM EDT
I still see more Aimpoint backers than EOTech around here, but the EO fans are growing in number.
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 6:11:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 7:11:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I still see more Aimpoint backers than EOTech around here, but the EO fans are growing in number.



this is what i was kinda refering to....
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 7:56:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I still see more Aimpoint backers than EOTech around here, but the EO fans are growing in number.



this is what i was kinda refering to....



I've owned an ML2, XD, and 552, and would be satisfied with either of the latest versions. Currently, i only have a RevD 552.

The EOtech has some great features that I like--AA batteries, and built in mount. However, i'd jump on an Aimpoint again if the right deal came along.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 3:57:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I still see more Aimpoint backers than EOTech around here, but the EO fans are growing in number.



this is what i was kinda refering to....




different people prefer different things, i dont see any bashing about it.


would it be bashing if i chose an aimpoint over the eotech? if so mark one up for the aimpoint cause i like it better.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 5:16:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I still see more Aimpoint backers than EOTech around here, but the EO fans are growing in number.



this is what i was kinda refering to....




You might attribute the rise in EOTech fans to the fact that they are being used more by the military now. As the new kid on the block they had no reputation, but that is changing. I now consider the EOTech a combat proven optic.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 5:34:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 7:42:23 AM EDT


<----- EOTech hater. No Aimpoint bashing from me, I like Aimpoints. I would still take an ACOG TA31 over an Aimpoint though.....

Link Posted: 7/20/2005 7:45:09 AM EDT

Why are so many people Knocking the Aimpoint lately?


Because they suck. Eotechs rule.

Just kidding. I don't think anyone is knocing them necessarily, it's just that for a long time
they had the market share because they were the only thing around.

EoTech has taken a good share of market, and given people a choice. That's always a good thing.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 8:38:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QUIB:

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I still see more Aimpoint backers than EOTech around here, but the EO fans are growing in number.



this is what i was kinda refering to....




You might attribute the rise in EOTech fans to the fact that they are being used more by the military now. As the new kid on the block they had no reputation, but that is changing. I now consider the EOTech a combat proven optic.



As they evolved and refined their product, they have fixed things like high rate of failure and battery life, thus putting themselves in a position to be used effectively by military components. I heard people talk of failure rates as high as 80% in abusive environments, up until the Rev Fs came out. Rev F seems to have taken care of alot of issues.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 12:22:52 PM EDT
I have not noticed any Aimpoint bashing.

The optics forum has been relatively smooth for months.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 1:56:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scollins:


<----- EOTech hater. No Aimpoint bashing from me, I like Aimpoints. I would still take an ACOG TA31 over an Aimpoint though.....





Do you have any REAL world experience with the EOtech or is it just another baseless opinion?
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 3:27:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2005 3:28:25 PM EDT by Scollins]

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By Scollins:


<----- EOTech hater. No Aimpoint bashing from me, I like Aimpoints. I would still take an ACOG TA31 over an Aimpoint though.....





Do you have any REAL world experience with the EOtech or is it just another baseless opinion?



How can you possibly judge my opinion as baseless, since you said yourself that you don't know what my experience is? You obviously missed the intent of the smilies. I see the EOTech vs Aimpoint as 9mm vs. 45 ACP. EOTechs are obviously 9mms, and Aimpoints are obvioulsy .45 ACPs!

If you are so sensitive and thin-skinned as to YOUR choice of optics that when someone doesn't agree with you, you call their opinions "baseless", then you must get terribly worked up everyday reading ARFCOM.....

I'm not an operator in the sandbox, military or even LE, but I've got at least 25,000 rounds on the AR platform, using many different optic arrangements. I think that is a lot of experience with the weapon system. I've shot ARs using the EOTech, Aimpoint, ACOG (BAC, non-BAC and compact), and Leupold scopes. By far my choice for a combat optic is the TA31 series ACOG from Trijicon. My eye sight isn't perfect, so I like the low magnification of the TA31. I currently use a TA01 ACOG and I'm planning on replacing it with a TA31RCOM4.

Here is what I don't like about EOTechs versus Aimpoints:

1.) The reticle on the EOTech, and this is the big issue for me. It was "grainy" and appeared to be comprised of many individual dots. It was too busy, and covered up too much "target." I personally don't see the need for a dot surrounded by a circle. I found it distracting.

2.) Mounting options. There are a lot more choices for mounting an Aimpoint than an EOTech. Those options tend to be more economical as well (though not always.) Larue offers three different options to mount your Aimpoint, but only one choice for the EOTech. Maybe one is all you need, but it seems people generally prefer a choice. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be using KAC rails, instead of KAC, DD, Larue, YHM, Troy, SWS, Samson, PRi, etc.

3.) Weight. Comparing similar models, an EOTech 511.A65 and an Aimpoint ML2, the Aimpoint is lighter by 1.8 oz. If you decide on the AA model, you pay the penalty of an additional 2.7 oz of weight. That may not sound like much, but with all the things getting mounted on the M4/M16/AR15 class of weapons these days, every bit of weight savings helps.

4.) Batteries. Using the same EOTech and Aimpoint from point 3, the Aimpoint wins hands down in the battery life department. From EOTech's website, they claim 200 hours of use from 2 N cell batteries. The ML2 claims 1,000 to 10,000 hours of use from one 1/3 N battery. Both batteries can be difficult to find. If you decide on the AA model, you can get up to 600 hours of battery life, or even 1,100 hours if you use AA Lithiums.

5.) Controls. I didn't care for the up/down arrows on the EOTech versus the rotary knob on the Aimpoint.

6.) Aesthetics: I just don't like the way the EOTech looks compared to the Aimpoint.

Now, can't we all just get along?


ETA: All stats regarding the EOTech and Aimpoint were taken from the respective manufacturer's websites.
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 4:03:23 PM EDT
Get both!
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 11:20:52 PM EDT
I did
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 11:21:46 PM EDT
I might get another Aimpoint so just to make it even two on two
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:26:06 AM EDT
after re-reading this thread i think im going to pawn off my aimpoints in favor of a eotech

Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:08:23 PM EDT
I think Grant was right on with more Military usage "must" mean its better IMHO. With that, and couple it with a lower price that may be the biggest reason, if there is any (havn't seen much)

I am VERY excited and interested in the new Eothingy reticle with the BDC on it, that might be just the ticket!
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:19:14 PM EDT
Scollins-1.) The reticle on the EOTech, and this is the big issue for me. It was "grainy" and appeared to be comprised of many individual dots. It was too busy, and covered up too much "target." I personally don't see the need for a dot surrounded by a circle. I found it distracting

I think the Eotech works great for people who have no issues with picture.Many users complain of "grainy" or "blurry" picture.

It shows up crystal clear for me, and I like the 1 moa dot for more precise shots.I also dont like the circle view of the aimpoint.Eotech = Better FOV in my opinion.I think the more you hear of the military using Eo's the more accepted they have become for civvie shooters!

my .2
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:24:35 PM EDT
LOL....

here we go!

AIMPOINT.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:27:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
LOL....

here we go!

AIMPOINT.



FORD!!!
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:57:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jm03:
Scollins-1.) The reticle on the EOTech, and this is the big issue for me. It was "grainy" and appeared to be comprised of many individual dots. It was too busy, and covered up too much "target." I personally don't see the need for a dot surrounded by a circle. I found it distracting

I think the Eotech works great for people who have no issues with picture.Many users complain of "grainy" or "blurry" picture.

It shows up crystal clear for me, and I like the 1 moa dot for more precise shots.I also dont like the circle view of the aimpoint.Eotech = Better FOV in my opinion.I think the more you hear of the military using Eo's the more accepted they have become for civvie shooters!

my .2



I agree. When I stopped looking at the recticle in the EOTech and I started looking at the target and focusing on the target, the circled dot on the EOTech just sorta seems to "be there" and isn't distracting at all. As far as it covering too much of the target, the extra wideness of the circle for me makes it easier to position the circle over centermass than worry about a dot or a front sight post.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:04:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 5:07:40 PM EDT by Hokie]
Maybe I've been practicing under the wrong methodology all these years, but I've always used the red dot on my Aimpoint to add some 'turbo' to my iron sight alignment speed. I find the 4MOA dot with the irons in the lower 1/3 to be the absolute fastest set up (for me).

I have no use for a 65MOA circle of dots.

I also drive a Dodge.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Maybe I've been practicing under the wrong methodology all these years, but I've always used the red dot on my Aimpoint to add some 'turbo' to my iron sight alignment speed. I find the 4MOA dot with the irons in the lower 1/3 to be the absolute fastest set up (for me).

I have no use for a 65MOA circle of dots.

I also drive a Dodge.



That explains it!

J/K
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:51:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jm03:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Maybe I've been practicing under the wrong methodology all these years, but I've always used the red dot on my Aimpoint to add some 'turbo' to my iron sight alignment speed. I find the 4MOA dot with the irons in the lower 1/3 to be the absolute fastest set up (for me).

I have no use for a 65MOA circle of dots.

I also drive a Dodge.



That explains it!

J/K



Link Posted: 7/21/2005 8:19:06 PM EDT
Got both, like both, prefer Eotech. No grainy issues here and like the framing circle of the larger reticle combined with the finer 1moa dot.

when comparing weight remember to take into account the EO has a built in mount and the Aimpoint does not. I've bever had trouble finding batteries for any model of either brand. Batt life is the only issue I see as huge in comparison but I figure I am smart enough to change batts before 200 hours rears it's head. I also prefer the FOV is better on the EO. Much of the difference for me is personal preference as with anything.
Link Posted: 7/22/2005 9:17:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
So, you're upset because more people seem to be buying the EOTech?

I'm guessing you own an Aimpoint? If the EOTech were to become more popular then the Aimpoint, would you question the sight you chose?

Don't worry what the other guy is using. If your sight works and your happy with it, that is all that matters in the end.



+1 on all three points!

Why does it bother you that more people seem to be choosing Eotech's and how does that equate to Aimpoint bashing?

I use an Eotech because it works very well for me and my vision so I really wouldn't care one bit if I was the only person on the web that felt that way. As far as Military use goes, there are plenty of Eotechs in the sand box right now but the only reason that matter to me at all is... if Eotechs can handle that kind of abuse then it can certainly handle anything I will likely ever do to it\with it.

YMMV

Link Posted: 7/22/2005 10:16:26 AM EDT
What a trendy bunch we are.

Remember the term "EO Thingy"?
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 10:34:51 AM EDT
Yes I own a Aimpiont M2....

I also see no reason for the ring in the Eotech..

And why do they "Eo" advertise there sight BROKEN and how the sight will not be effected by this?

^this is what makes me think Eotech is not as good as Aimpoint...And if you gonna toss around money for a electric red dot sight why not just put in the little extra for a Aimpoint.....

Guess it is all a ford chevey thing but
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 10:48:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 10:56:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 10:58:06 AM EDT by AlCapone]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By AlCapone:
Yes I own a Aimpiont M2....

I also see no reason for the ring in the Eotech..

And why do they "Eo" advertise there sight BROKEN and how the sight will not be effected by this?

^this is what makes me think Eotech is not as good as Aimpoint...And if you gonna toss around money for a electric red dot sight why not just put in the little extra for a Aimpoint.....

Guess it is all a ford chevey thing but hr


HUh?? First off the 65MOA outer ring has many uses. First it is great for snap shooting at CQB distances. Second it can used as a ranging device.


If the EOTech window is broken you can STILL see the reticle (keeping you in the fight). This IMHO is an AWESOME capability. I have personally shot my weapon with a broken windowed EOTech. It held zero and I was able to use it as I normally would.



C4



So you broke your Eotech...... thats what im saying....

I won't be ranging anything with a Eotech ring.... Say you do / and then what are you going to do with that so called range you find with it ?calibrate it in on you eotech for a perfect shot? how is that gonna work?

Link Posted: 7/24/2005 11:18:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By AlCapone:
Yes I own a Aimpiont M2....

I also see no reason for the ring in the Eotech..

And why do they "Eo" advertise there sight BROKEN and how the sight will not be effected by this?

^this is what makes me think Eotech is not as good as Aimpoint...And if you gonna toss around money for a electric red dot sight why not just put in the little extra for a Aimpoint.....

Guess it is all a ford chevey thing but



HUh?? First off the 65MOA outer ring has many uses. First it is great for snap shooting at CQB distances. Second it can used as a ranging device.


If the EOTech window is broken you can STILL see the reticle (keeping you in the fight). This IMHO is an AWESOME capability. I have personally shot my weapon with a broken windowed EOTech. It held zero and I was able to use it as I normally would.



C4



So you broke your Eotech...... thats what im saying....

I won't be ranging anything with a Eotech ring.... Say you do / and then what are you going to do with that so called range you find with it ?calibrate it in on you eotech for a perfect shot? how is that gonna work?




What he's saying is with a fractured or totally pierced Eo window you can still use the sight.This might happen when used in combat,you know explosions etc.65 moa ring would give you better range on a target than just dot.You dont want any ability to range a target?Are all of your shots going to be with in 100yd????

Mine arent!

Al just stick with Aimoint and be happy.Sounds like it fits your needs well.
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 11:31:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 11:33:29 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 4:37:26 PM EDT
all you knuckleheads are saying stuf about the eotech as if youve had one..the responses prove you never had any experiences with one..try one and then judge.
The 65 moa with the small dot in the middle makes it extremely fast at targets that move vs. trying to keep a small 2-4moa dot on a person that is moving. All you have tto do is put that large circle onthe center mass and pull the trigger..more margin of error to work with.

If you had one you would know that it is virtually impossible to break the plexiglass lens and has the heavy armor around the top...Had one with the local SWAT and tortured tested it. THrew it against a conrete wall and bounced along the corner walls several times with no problems and bolted back on the AR and kept zero within 1moa. We had the small battery model so the only complaint was the battery time which was only 70 mins or so. Try piercing the aimpoint lens and see what happens

Also the tube\scope style of the aimpoint makes the field of view a little smaller due to the fact yo are looking thru a tube vs a plate of lens. You have to keep your your eye steadier to a established cheek rest..(if that makes any sense)...hard to explain...

Both are great and both have their ups and downs....just choose one and be happy...Law enforcment and Special Forces use both.. so you cant go wrong.....
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 5:01:31 PM EDT
i have used both and feel that the aimpoint works for me better.

both are good scopes!



Link Posted: 7/24/2005 5:26:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
the only complaint was the battery time which was only 70 mins or so.



You must have had a bad set of batteries. My Duracell "N" batteries hold out longer than that and my EOTech gets left on for the whole range session which can be 2 to 3 hrs at a time.


Also the tube\scope style of the aimpoint makes the field of view a little smaller..........


This was one of the big deciding factors in my purchasing an EOTech.



Both are great and both have their ups and downs....just choose one and be happy...Law enforcement and Special Forces use both.. so you cant go wrong.....


Very true. To each his own.



Link Posted: 7/24/2005 5:46:53 PM EDT
AlCapone, I assume youu haven't used an EOthingy much if you don't like it.

I picked one up at a gunshow once and liked it much better than any other red-dot-type optic I'd ever seen.

A couple months later, I had one.

The Aimpoint didn't trip my trigger for a couple reasons.
1. Price
2. Extra mount needed
3. Center dot is a little big for shooting at 400 and 500yds (believe it or not, I have done this with the proper amount of Kentucky elevation with my EOTech..the groups weren't great but I was shooting with Wolf)
4. FOV seems bigger with the EOTech
5. I like the AA option, but the ML3 w/ 50,000hr battery life sounds pretty cool.
6. EXCELLENT customer service stories. You usually hear the bad stories (bad news travels quicker) but EOTech CS has been praised many times for going above and beyond.
7. Made in the USA

Had to add that last one

All of these were just my reasons for buying an EOTech over an Aimpoint and I don't flame those who buy Aimpoint because I have considered them too.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 7:01:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 7:01:41 PM EDT by Scollins]

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

7. Made in the USA

Had to add that last one
WIZZO



Yes, but my Aimpoint was made by a super-hot Swedish blonde with big knockers who moonlights for the Swedish Bikini Team!

(We all have our fantasies, don't you go taking mine away from me......)
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 8:28:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 8:30:00 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By Scollins:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

7. Made in the USA

Had to add that last one
WIZZO



Yes, but my Aimpoint was made by a super-hot Swedish blonde with big knockers who moonlights for the Swedish Bikini Team!

(We all have our fantasies, don't you go taking mine away from me......)



If that is true, I'll be on the phone tomorrow with Robert From RB Precision ordering one...Hell, I'll drive to his friggin house

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:02:56 AM EDT
The only way to be happy is to own one of each. I still can't decide which I like better. I would never get rid of my Eotech and I would never get rid of my Aimpoint, so I just got another AR.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:10:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CPUFed:
The only way to be happy is to own one of each. I still can't decide which I like better. I would never get rid of my Eotech and I would never get rid of my Aimpoint, so I just got another AR.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/cpufed/IMG_1898.jpg





This of course is the correct answer.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:23:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:
The only way to be happy is to own one of each. I still can't decide which I like better. I would never get rid of my Eotech and I would never get rid of my Aimpoint, so I just got another AR.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/cpufed/IMG_1898.jpg





This of course is the correct answer.



+1 on that, I'm just torn on what configuration to build to put the Eotech on that I want to try!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:31:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 7:31:42 AM EDT by Avalon01]

Originally Posted By AlCapone:
So you broke your Eotech...... thats what im saying....



And I broke my Aimpoint.

Just because something breaks does make it a crappy optic.

BTW: I got both! Like the EoTech better.



Av.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:32:40 AM EDT
CHEVY!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 8:18:26 AM EDT
As far as quality and function, I view them as equals.

But here's why I prefer the EO Tech for my own personal uses:

1. You can get EO Tech's that use ordinary AA batteries. These can be found anywhere, from Wal-Mart to the Ma and Pa grocery store down the road. I like that.

2. I don't need to buy an extra mount or spacers or any of that stuff. I just simply buy the EO Tech, slide it on the rail and secure it. That's another big plus in it's favor.

Otherwise, I wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference betweem the two.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 10:51:21 AM EDT
Great Taste!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:53:33 AM EDT
I might get an EOTech when the battery life improves, they lose the membrane switching, or I really want an optic on my shotgun. It is pretty amusing that I have both Trijicon and EOTech within an hour's drive and I shoot an aimpoint, but what the heck...
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
Great Taste!



Less filling?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:02:12 PM EDT
I've had both, I prefer the EOThingy...
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