Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/9/2004 4:57:56 AM EST
Thanks for taking the time to check out the post. I currently have a Bushie M4 with Samco M33 hand guards, forward grip, Aimpoint ML2+LaRue Mount, Rock River Arms un-marked Collapsible stock, and of course the dreaded "Mini Y-Comp". I bought my gun before the ban, and then just added the stock right after the ban ened. However, I saw no need to have my Y-Comp taken off. I feel that I can shoot much, much more faster than without it. I tried one mans M4 at the range last week and he has installed the prefered Flash Hider. I shot it, and noticed that the Eotech jumped off target quite a bit. I allowed him to shoot mine and he commented that he could feel the gasses being blown back at himself. I do not notice this, except when I am outside and I am standing next to the gun being fired. I do no night shooting, am only 15 so its not like I am defending the home or anything like that. I just want to know why so many people are turning the Flash Hiders, while I am left behind because I do not know as much as others. Thanks again for the reply.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:01:54 AM EST
I dont think muzzle brakes are bad for range guns, but they are super loud for defense unless you plan on tell the bad guys to wait a moment while you insert earplugs. One shot indoors with a brake would blow your hearing for good
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:25:46 AM EST
"Bad" is relative. If you like your brake, then don't change it.

A "Pro" for removing the brake are that the shooters next to you at the range will appreciate it.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:27:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:29:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 5:30:00 AM EST by PBIR]
Victims of the white man's oppression.

Fight the power!

oh wait, I'm white. Damnit.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:54:29 AM EST
The last several times I have gone shooting, I have been stuck next to some fucktard with a muzzle break on his AR. I think I would have been more comfortable if they were igniting C4 next to me. The blast from those things is ridiculous - and all the more annoying in that it serves NO PURPOSE in a caliber like that.

Those things will always be a reminder to me of the 10 year ban on common sense, and I hope people get rid of them now that they can replace them with something more worthwhile.

I never would have thought that Homer Simpson's "loudener" would actually become a commonly sought after item.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:20:39 AM EST
I would assume disfunctional families. That and poverty.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:43:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 8:44:46 AM EST by El_Roto]
The important thing to remember is that it's your rifle and you're the only one who has to be comfortable with it. If your muzzle brake doesn't bother you, keep it! If later on you decide you would like to get a flash suppresor, that's cool too.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:43:44 AM EST
Mini Y-comp rules!

[deafening_roar]BANG![/deafaning_roar]

Take that range rats!

Seri­ously though, the amount of noise put out by the gun is the same with either muzzle device. Its simply REDIRECTED...


The flash hider is quieter to you because the noise is going away from the muzzle...TOWARDS the target (or bad guys/zombies!). Now they know your position...

The muzzle brake sends the noise rearwards/sidewards...AWAY fron the target! So its harder for them to know where you are shooting from!


And, follow up shots are quicker!

Why else would serious competitors use them, eh?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:45:10 AM EST
+1 disfunctional families
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:56:24 AM EST
If you live in NY and want something other than a naked end on the barrel, this conversation is mostly immaterial. That said, once I can move out of NY in a few years and if the feds have not re-enacted their assinine AWB, I will swap out the Izzy brake on my BM M4gery for a Phantom FH.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 10:06:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:
I would assume disfunctional families. That and poverty.



Wow. Thank you very much for the serious answer.
Well, (sigh) I guess someday guns won't exist and we will not have to question those that may posses them.


StormSurge, thanks for actually taking the time to reply to my post in an effective and thought provoking manner. Everyone else helped answer the question too.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 11:27:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By StormSurge:
Mini Y-comp rules!

[deafening_roar]BANG![/deafaning_roar]

Take that range rats!

Seri­ously though, the amount of noise put out by the gun is the same with either muzzle device. Its simply REDIRECTED...


The flash hider is quieter to you because the noise is going away from the muzzle...TOWARDS the target (or bad guys/zombies!). Now they know your position...

The muzzle brake sends the noise rearwards/sidewards...AWAY fron the target! So its harder for them to know where you are shooting from!


And, follow up shots are quicker!

Why else would serious competitors use them, eh?



I can accept the quicker follow up shots thing - but it would have to be in some odd form of competition requiring extremely fast follow-up shots. I have never had any problems with rapid sustained fire from a standard flash suppressor - to include double taps at 2-second targets from the low ready position.

The tactical applications you mention strike me as nonsense - or muzzle breaks would have a place on military 5.56 rifles, not just civilian ones.

I would prefer to operate a rifle that would not unnecessarily rattle those to my left and right in a tactical situation - muzzle blast is bad enough already.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 11:44:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 11:45:42 AM EST by Cans4you]
Some brakes do increase the accuracy and decrease the recoil of rifles.


rattle those to my left and right in a tactical situation

But this is also true and a good point.

This, like many other pro and con questions about component options and accessories are going to depend on the senerio they are most likely to incounter during the majority of the time they are being used.

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 11:45:16 AM EST
Not bad.. just freakin' loud...
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 11:51:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:


I can accept the quicker follow up shots thing - but it would have to be in some odd form of competition requiring extremely fast follow-up shots.



I read a thread where somebody said that prior to the AWB, many 3-gun competitors were replacing thier flash suppressors with muzzle brakes for the above reasons. Then, when the ban came along, everybody HAD to have flash suppressors and would pay more for a pre-ban gun so they could have it.

I can't see a permanently attached brake, but a threaded muzzle gives you the option of quickly switching back and forth if you like.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 12:53:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By DM1975:
I would assume disfunctional families. That and poverty.



Wow. Thank you very much for the serious answer.
Well, (sigh) I guess someday guns won't exist and we will not have to question those that may posses them.


StormSurge, thanks for actually taking the time to reply to my post in an effective and thought provoking manner. Everyone else helped answer the question too.



Too bad you cant take a joke... It's not like you had any answers before that huh?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:37:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 2:38:11 PM EST by Zak-Smith]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
I can accept the quicker follow up shots thing - but it would have to be in some odd form of competition requiring extremely fast follow-up shots.


Like, Oh, I don't know... Any type of action rifle competition? Ever shoot 3Gun or IPSC/USPSA rifle?

-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:50:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
I can accept the quicker follow up shots thing - but it would have to be in some odd form of competition requiring extremely fast follow-up shots.


Like, Oh, I don't know... Any type of action rifle competition? Ever shoot 3Gun or IPSC/USPSA rifle?

-z



Nope - and from the sounds of it, it sounds like a rifle version of what NRA Action Pistol and IPSC have become - games for gaming guns where a real combat-focused weapon has no chance and competitors shoot weak loads with compensated guns.

I bleieve IPSC at least has a category for stock guns - but still allows unrealistically weak loads, IIRC.

I'll pass.

If I want to shoot in a game, I will stick with traditional highpower. If I want to train, I will train with a weapon designed for combat and a course of fire / rules designed accordingly.

If I want to shoot wothout recoil, I'll pick up an air rifle.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:13:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 3:14:11 PM EST by Zak-Smith]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Nope - and from the sounds of it, it sounds like a rifle version of what NRA Action Pistol and IPSC have become - games for gaming guns where a real combat-focused weapon has no chance and competitors shoot weak loads with compensated guns.

I bleieve IPSC at least has a category for stock guns - but still allows unrealistically weak loads, IIRC.


In summary, you have never shot a 3Gun or IPSC match, don't know the rules, what equipment is allowed, what equipment/loads dominate, ... and thus are clearly qualified to talk about.

For USPSA/IPSC, to score "Minor" power factor with a rifle requires 150PF: which is 55gr@2727 (similar to an M4). Major is 320PF. What do most people shoot? XM193 or Q3131A is real popular for close-in hoser stages, and Black Hills 68-77gr Match for long-range stages. When you have to reach out to 320 yards, "weak loads" drastically reduce one's chance for success. In non-USPSA 3Gun matches such as SMM3G, RM3G, etc, you need ammo powerful enough to activate a swinging flash target, or knock down a steel popper at 320 yards. Bunny fart loads obviously won't work.. and sometimes even M193-equivalent is hard to spot hits for at long range.

The most popular class in 3Gun is "Tactical", which is an iron sighted pistol and shotgun with no ports; the rifle is allowed one optic and a small, no more than 1" diameter, muzzle device.

As far as practical application, want to double-tap something at 50, 100, 150 yards? A good comp will increase your fastest possible speed, no matter your current skill level.

I shot a 16" M1A today that didn't move at all when you pulled the trigger even with full power 150gr FMJ, largely due to the comp (a basic Miculek modified to fit).

It's going to be hard to argue against more effective shooting.. but I agree that one has to understand the trade-offs of equipment choice. Interestingly, the MSTN QC comp is not much louder than a bare muzzle and hides flash pretty well too.



If I want to shoot in a game, I will stick with traditional highpower. If I want to train, I will train with a weapon designed for combat and a course of fire / rules designed accordingly.



You ought to read "The Case for IPSC", an article by Duane Thomas in "Handguns" (Sept/Oct). Thread about it here: www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16077

Enjoy.

-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:25:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Nope - and from the sounds of it, it sounds like a rifle version of what NRA Action Pistol and IPSC have become - games for gaming guns where a real combat-focused weapon has no chance and competitors shoot weak loads with compensated guns.

I bleieve IPSC at least has a category for stock guns - but still allows unrealistically weak loads, IIRC.


In summary, you have never shot a 3Gun or IPSC match, don't know the rules, what equipment is allowed, what equipment/loads dominate, ... and thus are clearly qualified to talk about.

For USPSA/IPSC, to score "Minor" power factor with a rifle requires 150PF: which is 55gr@2727 (similar to an M4). Major is 320PF. What do most people shoot? XM193 or Q3131A is real popular for close-in hoser stages, and Black Hills 68-77gr Match for long-range stages. When you have to reach out to 320 yards, "weak loads" drastically reduce one's chance for success. In non-USPSA 3Gun matches such as SMM3G, RM3G, etc, you need ammo powerful enough to activate a swinging flash target, or knock down a steel popper at 320 yards. Bunny fart loads obviously won't work.. and sometimes even M193-equivalent is hard to spot hits for at long range.

The most popular class in 3Gun is "Tactical", which is an iron sighted pistol and shotgun with no ports; the rifle is allowed one optic and a small, no more than 1" diameter, muzzle device.

As far as practical application, want to double-tap something at 50, 100, 150 yards? A good comp will increase your fastest possible speed, no matter your current skill level.

I shot a 16" M1A today that didn't move at all when you pulled the trigger even with full power 150gr FMJ, largely due to the comp (a basic Miculek modified to fit).

It's going to be hard to argue against more effective shooting.. but I agree that one has to understand the trade-offs of equipment choice. Interestingly, the MSTN QC comp is not much louder than a bare muzzle and hides flash pretty well too.



If I want to shoot in a game, I will stick with traditional highpower. If I want to train, I will train with a weapon designed for combat and a course of fire / rules designed accordingly.



You ought to read "The Case for IPSC", an article by Duane Thomas in "Handguns" (Sept/Oct). Thread about it here: www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16077

Enjoy.

-z



Sounds good - but why allow compensators at all then - why not keep the competitors on a level playing field? As soon as the equipment "arms race" begins, the sport become less appealing for me.

I have enough problems woth trianing schools that insist on strong side weapons draws. I carry my pistol in a chest holster - so I am too often forced to NOT "train as I fight" so some instructor can standardize his curriculum.

My only competitive experience in the "dynamic" arena was shooting military combat rifle - where everyone shot off the rack weapons and ammo - so perhaps that's where my bias naturally points.

Are compensators commonly used or desired on police duty rifles or military weapons?

Until I will be carrying a comp on my issue rifles, I don't want to be getting used to shooting with one. Heck, I love recoil. I spent this morning shooting doubletap 10mm out of my new Glock 29. Weak-handed rapid fire was quite, eh.. "interesting."
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:49:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Sounds good - but why allow compensators at all then - why not keep the competitors on a level playing field? As soon as the equipment "arms race" begins, the sport become less appealing for me.

I have enough problems woth trianing schools that insist on strong side weapons draws. I carry my pistol in a chest holster - so I am too often forced to NOT "train as I fight" so some instructor can standardize his curriculum.

My only competitive experience in the "dynamic" arena was shooting military combat rifle - where everyone shot off the rack weapons and ammo - so perhaps that's where my bias naturally points.

Are compensators commonly used or desired on police duty rifles or military weapons?


I appreciate the thoughtful response.. I had a really great flame ready and can't use it now.

I think the reason to allow them at all is because there is a trade-off between standardization for a "level playing field" versus allowing variations so innovation and progress occur. To make an analogy, grabbing a rifle off the rack and learning the current military doctrine for shooting, CQB, or whatever is the "level playing field" with no changes. Allowing variations in a competitive environment teaches us things, we innovate, and move forward the state of the art. This is exactly why when high-speed military guys "train up" for a deployment and need to learn how to shoot fast, they turn to world-class practical shooters like Rob Leatham, Barnhart, and Taran Butler.

In another example, in the "Open" 3Gun class, people have been using two optics, or an optic and a short-range sight for quite a while now. While it seems like many of the "tactical" guys are putting the JPoints & DocterSights on top of their ACOGs or Leupolds, the 3Gun guys are putting them at 1:30'o'clock on the float tube. The latter approach avoids some major pitfals of the former, like effective sight-in distance vs. the sight-above-bore distance.

In the case of a compensator: look at an A2, or the new closed-bottom Phantom. These both provide some level of muzzle-rise compensation. Are these "comps", or just flash-hiders? What if you could have a device which harvested all gas to counteract the bullet's momentum (brake effect), and contained flash & blast. That's basically what a sound suppressor does, but suppressors have no "comp" ability, and they are large, adding to the bulk and OAL of the weapon.

If you can wear earpro and don't need total flash suppression, a modern comp will increase your ability to put aimed fire downrange as fast as possible.

Just some things to think about. I get a burr under my hide when people say, "You don't need a brake for 223", or "223 doesn't have enough recoil", whatever. The fact is, you can produce aimed fire much faster if your sight picture does not move at all during a shot (and if the gun finishes cycling quicker, but that's a different topic). The difference between how fast you can aim at the target and say "pow pow pow" and how fast you can do it with live ammo is the advantage.

regards
-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:56:42 PM EST
Personally I cant stand those "people" who complain about the shooter next to him having a compensater....They are loud but do serve a purpose. I was next to a guy with an M1A that had the standard flash suppressor...which in my opinion is louder than any AR comp I have heard, I wasnt pissed, I was in LOVE!!! If you cant stand the noise of a gun then maybe you have the wrong hobby
BTW I have fired a CETME with comp indoors wearing no protection() and still hear fine.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:57:52 PM EST
The old black-powder shooters at my range don't blink and eye when a 50BMG with a brake is touched off. I was impressed.

-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:08:31 PM EST
Aren't comps, brakes, and flash-hiders three entirely different things? I know there are hybrids, but I was taught that comps help control muzzle rise, brakes help control rearward movement, and FH's help reduce visual signature.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:09:59 PM EST
If I wasn't force to shoot on a damn shitty bench that wobbled with the muzzle blast it probably wouldn't have bothered me so much.

Oh, and phxtravis, your machismo impresses me. Someday I aspire to be half as cool .
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:11:19 PM EST
Use plugs and muffs on the range and you will have no poblem with the noise.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:23:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hal9k:
Aren't comps, brakes, and flash-hiders three entirely different things? I know there are hybrids, but I was taught that comps help control muzzle rise, brakes help control rearward movement, and FH's help reduce visual signature.



Actually, as Zak pointed out, the current "A2 style" is actually a compensator AND flash suppressor.

If that degree of compensation would be somehow quantifiable, and that was set as the max allowed in these 3-gun matches, we might be on to something.

Anyone remember that guy who shot the assassin trying to kill the Afghani President some time back? That shoot was a thing of beauty - I must insist that training with more compensation than that would have hindered that guys ability to succesfully deal with the recoil he had to deal with.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:26:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By sam1963:
Use plugs and muffs on the range and you will have no poblem with the noise.



Noise has nothing to do with it.

PRESSURE has EVERYTHING to do with it.

The Army gives me Demo pay for a reason. I am more than used to loud noises and mitigating them. I just don't like muzzle blast rocking my shooting bench when I am shooting for groups.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:28:23 PM EST

Guess somepeople cant take opinions either.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:28:25 PM EST
I havent ever noticed an A2 comp having an effect. as to the guy shooting the asassin, all I ever saw was a grainy image. As I recall, he killed a local too. Tough shit, hes only protecting Karzai.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:38:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
If that degree of compensation would be somehow quantifiable, and that was set as the max allowed in these 3-gun matches, we might be on to something.


If we are stuck using only what's spec on an M16A2, M16A4, or M4, how are we ever going to get anything better?

Some weenie engineer (I'm an EE) sitting in a cubicle, who doesn't shoot, compete, or train -- and experiment to find out what works and what doesn't work?

That's how you end up spending $1B on an XM8, a warmed-over G36 that isn't significantly better than an M16.

-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:48:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
If that degree of compensation would be somehow quantifiable, and that was set as the max allowed in these 3-gun matches, we might be on to something.


If we are stuck using only what's spec on an M16A2, M16A4, or M4, how are we ever going to get anything better?

Some weenie engineer (I'm an EE) sitting in a cubicle, who doesn't shoot, compete, or train -- and experiment to find out what works and what doesn't work?

That's how you end up spending $1B on an XM8, a warmed-over G36 that isn't significantly better than an M16.

-z



Let me clarify things here -

I have nothing against that type of competition, or games for that matter. I just have no personal use for them - I'd rather play softball.

When it comes to shooting / shooting sports - I like to approach it as training - and anything that detracts from that detracts from the training value.

Many of those action shooters are more than capable of handling uncompensated weapons. Good for them.

I just want you to understand that when I see folks shooting those fancy compensated race guns it is no different in my mind than watching teenagers at the arcade with the latest plastic pistol game -just because some are really good at it, doesn't mean they can handle a real gun.

I would venture to say that over 95% of the compensators on ranges these days are not in the hands of hard core 3-gun shooters, just Joe 6-Pack who bought the only thing available during the dark 10-year period we would all like to forget, because manufacturers realized the "naked" barrel look did not go over well.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:01:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 5:01:38 PM EST by brewsky101]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I havent ever noticed an A2 comp having an effect.



I have.

My bare muzzle carbine bounces all over the place during rapid fire fast consecutive shots (after all how "rapid" can an aimed semi-auto be) with very little rearward push. However, I experience a slightly stiffer rearward push but significantly less muzzle rize/bounce with my A2 equiped carbine. It makes enough difference that I've decided to have my bare muzzle carbine threaded for an A2.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:09:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 5:12:39 PM EST by Zak-Smith]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
I just want you to understand that when I see folks shooting those fancy compensated race guns it is no different in my mind than watching teenagers at the arcade with the latest plastic pistol game -just because some are really good at it, doesn't mean they can handle a real gun.


Hmm. A "race gun" is named so to refer to the equipment race. Ironically, the most IM-practical of IPSC guns, the Open-class pistol, has been in its current configuration since about 1991 (a double-stack, fully compensated 1911 in 38Super with optics on the slide or on a cantilevered frame mount).

In IPSC Limited class, we're shooting double-stack 1911's with iron sights, shooting 180gr .40 caliber at about 950fps.
In Limited-10 class, the most common gun is a single-stack 1911.
In Production- a SIG or a Glock.

Your characterization of 3Gun rifles and shooters couldn't be more wrong, IMO. I believe this is the gun use to win Tactical at RM3G this year:
[ link to LARGER image ]
Basically, it's a 17" or 18" barrel with a PRI tube, a VLTOR, and a Trijicon Accupoint.

The He-man class (308 caliber rifles, 45ACP pistols required) at SMM3G this year was won with a M1A with a standard F/H.

The idea that a person would somehow "taint" themselves by getting more trigger time, under pressure, is ludicrous. The article by Duane I referred to earlier explains this really well.

Understand that practical shooting is not tactical training; it's a test of shooting skills (amongst some others). Take a 3Gun competitor from the top 25% in any national-level event; he'll spank the majority of rifle shooters in the world with or without a comp-- the exception being the HSLD drag guys who get to shoot thousands of rounds a week in training. Quite frankly, if that's not you, then you could benefit from practical shooting.


I would venture to say that over 95% of the compensators on ranges these days are not in the hands of hard core 3-gun shooters, just Joe 6-Pack who bought the only thing available during the dark 10-year period we would all like to forget, because manufacturers realized the "naked" barrel look did not go over well.

Sure, and the sad part is, most of those brakes totally suck.

-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:17:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:


Sure, and the sad part is, most of those brakes totally suck.

-z



See - they suck AND they push muzzle blast at the neighboring firing points - hence, NO PURPOSE.

We've been in a agreement all along, and just didn't know it. If I had only known about those fancy 3-gun comps, I could have qualified my first statemens by saying "those useless comps on 95% of comped guns that serve no purpose but to increase felt blast and volume" and avoided all this nastiness.

I understand full well that some skills cary over - heck - I have done my share of air gun and smallbore shooting. I just personally don't like the race gun scene, and reserve the right to make fun of it by comparing it to "Area 51" the arcade game .

Man, I gotta go - this thread is hurting my head, I have to eat yet, and the bartender at my local bar is going to start worrying about me of I don't show up soon.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:54:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By sam1963:
Use plugs and muffs on the range and you will have no poblem with the noise.



Noise has nothing to do with it.

PRESSURE has EVERYTHING to do with it.

The Army gives me Demo pay for a reason. I am more than used to loud noises and mitigating them. I just don't like muzzle blast rocking my shooting bench when I am shooting for groups.



Cant blame you on the part of the bench moving. I hate it when sombody is trying to adjust or move the thing when I am shoting.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:40:55 PM EST


StormSurge, thanks etc.


No problemo!



I would prefer to operate a rifle that would not unnecessarily rattle those to my left and right in a tactical situation


The lateast build I am putting a Y-comp on is a 24" barrel AR...so, the muzzle will be WAY OUT in front of my fellow shooters!



I'd rather play softball


Sports suck.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:49:27 PM EST
I'll chime in as a long time shooter.... with my first time with a brake just recently.

At a local 3-gun shoot, I shot a stage with someone else's carbine with an Oly brake. I was impressed how effortless follow-up shots were.

Since I was in the middle of building a 3-gun carbine to celebrate the demise of the AWB, I put a JP brake (the IPSC-legal one) on it (pics comming soon as I get film developed). I had been shooting a 20" HBAR.

Took it to a standard firing-line range this week to sight it in, and was impressed just fast I was back on target at 200yds. Now that I'm sighted in, that's probably the last time for several months the rifle will be on "the firing line." Won't have to worry about the guy in the next lane. From there on out it's most likely to be shot from the start of a 3-gun stage or family's farm. I'm glad I made the decision to get it.

I can't wait to try those CQB hammers and tripples clearing the shoot house! Muzzle rise? What's that? ;)

Some here call it "race gun" to use a brake? What about all the guys w/ tactical gear who never leave a regular 100yd firing line? I call it a waste. Oh... and "race gun" just because I like to play in 3-gun matches? The rifle is basically a 16" M4 w/ EOTech, BUIS, and brake. Hardly a "race" gun.

Also, as far as "practicallity" of practical shooting? Well, I won't comment on IPSC cause I've never done it (want to, though!), but I do IDPA when I can and 3-guns when possible. You get out of it what you want. You can take a bone stock service pistol or rifle to ANY competition if you wish!!!!!!!! Sometimes it's more important to get the trigger time, time under [clock] pressure, shooting from odd positions, reload/failure practice, etc. You can take "non race" gear and play for fun, did you realize that? Let the guys with high-speed equipment win. Who cares.

In fact, in IDPA I do better with my beat-up Beretta 92 shooting NATO ammo than with my 92G Elite I've "tricked" up shooting lighter ammo. Why? Because I put 10k+ rounds/year through the beater and only a few hundred through the trick gun. But I had fun building the trick gun.

Try a match sometime! Don't worry about scores! Don't worry about everyone else's equipment! You'll have fun, and you'll learn TONS.

rvb
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:56:21 PM EST
Those of you complaining about sports should remember what Ernest Hemingway, legendary drunk and author, had to say on the subject:

"There are three sports; motor racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing. The rest are just games."
Top Top