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Posted: 5/9/2004 7:36:03 PM EST
First off guys lemme say this, I'm an AR fan! I love them. I have sold off all my "other" rifles in order to keep my collection "pure". I am also a 7.62 NATO fan. I never have and don't care for the 5.56. I understand that you can carry more ammo and what the average distance of engagement is, but I still don't care for the 5.56.

I have been a grunt for a short period of time until I was sent back to the world because of an injury that I sustained. I am in law enforcement and now I do acknowldge the need for 5.56. This need, IMHO is in LE only. The 5.56 makes a great entry weapon but for combat it leaves alot to be desired.

This leads me to my point of the SPR. I like, no I love the concept! But I don't understand the choice of caliber. The 5.56 can't bust through shit like the 7.62 and it does not have the extended range either. So why the 5.56 SPR? I can see the SPR in 6.8. I know you add another calber to the plate but Uncle Sam has delt with this issue before and servived. I don't see the 6.8 as being a replacement to the 7.62 for sniping but it should be a replacement to the 5.56 in the SPR role and even the 5.56 period, that is why I hope it is a successful cartridge.

Now I have had a few too many tonight, I will admit that. I was inspired to post this after reading a few threads about the SPR. I just could not understand how a guy could spend $700 for a "true" SPR barrel that only shoots a 5.56 projectile with a limited range. So guys if I have missed somthing in my moment of itoxication please help me understand what I have missed. I must tell you I have always felt the way I do now but all of a sudden I have the courage to ask.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:51:42 PM EST
My SPR clone sucked the money right out of my wallet.

Other than that I'm happy with it. There's a world of guns out there. Some things don't interest me, others do. I buy what I like and let others make their own choices. There's no sense in trying to understand the way other people spend their money.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:52:18 PM EST
I do not have a SPR. But I would bet most people get them for the "cool" factor.

But besides, if one wanted a SPR-tpe rifle in 7.62, then the obvious choice would be the Mk11 Mod 0 from Knight's.

Mk 11 Mod 0 Link
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:31:04 PM EST
I myself would prefer an SPR type gun in 6.8 SPC or 7.62 NATO over a 5.56mm.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:38:12 PM EST
I'm actually waiting for the 6.8 WOA barrel from ADCO to finish my SPR build.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:09:46 PM EST
AS a tool for long range sniping the 7.62 and larger is the better round.

For what the 5.56 was originally designed for, a light carbine used for controlled auto fire at close range. It served me well.

Have another one, cheers.

Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:50:49 PM EST
An SPR would be wicked cool if one had a class 3, therefore able to take advantage of the barrel profile.

Although, a Mk Mod 0 would satisfy me much more, even w/o a suppressor.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:51:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2004 9:53:22 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By mattld:
But besides, if one wanted a SPR-tpe rifle in 7.62, then the obvious choice would be the Mk11 Mod 0 from Knight's.



$$$$$$$$ Now your talking an expensive rifle and not easily found for sale.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 10:36:44 PM EST
The SPR in 5.56 is a versatile thing. It allows the user all of the advantages of 5.56 over 7.62 at short ranges while adding long range accuracy without requiring you to carry two seperate weapons. At short ranges, a 18" SPR is more handy, faster, quicker on follow up shots, and likely more lethal than 7.62mm (in military use anyways- i.e. comparing M855 or 77 gr. SMK rounds that fragment to 7.62mm ball that doesn't). At longer ranges, an SPR in 5.56mm is only going to be out-shot by a dedicated bolt gun.. If you want that long range advantage plus the ability to defend yourself close-in, you're going to have to bring two rifles..
IMHO, a 5.56 SPR works when you don't get to fight at the time and place of your choosing- If your war could involve fighting room to room, shooting 400 rounds with your supply being only what you can carry, having to get magazines from the guys armed with M4s around you, AND being presented with a great target of opportunity a half kilometer away- The SPR in 5.56 makes a lot of sense.

If you don't have to worry about the above scenarios, then you're probably a sniper and you're carrying a Remington bolt action rather than a semi- in any caliber...

Of course, the 6.8mm SPC may change the equation quite a bit- but when the SPR was 'invented', that wasn't really an option...
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 10:41:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By mattld:
But besides, if one wanted a SPR-tpe rifle in 7.62, then the obvious choice would be the Mk11 Mod 0 from Knight's.



$$$$$$$$ Now your talking an expensive rifle and not easily found for sale.



You'd have the same level of performance with the standard SR25 w/FF RAS for a lot less money.

Link Posted: 5/9/2004 10:48:58 PM EST
this topic has been beat to death...

yes there are better caliber options for an SPR weapon but life goes on... the 556 SPR has its purpose, as small as that purpose may be.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 11:27:41 PM EST
My SPR is a 120mm howitzer. I think that will do the job.

SPR, Special Purpose Rifle; what ever your purpose that is what it does. 500m and below the 5.56mm is fine, 600m cranialoccular shot or even farther. Might I mention that they are damn sexy also.

-Matt
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 11:57:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Matth3wdean:
600m cranialoccular shot or even farther.



You're a far better shot than I am.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:58:56 AM EST
Can someone explain the definition of SPR to me?? I know Special Purpose Rifle, but what is the definition???

The Armalite AR10 20" is listed on Armalites website as SPR. and I see pics of SPR's, but what makes an SPR an SPR??

Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 3:16:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 3:19:51 AM EST by Yojimbo]
Interesting thread!

On the Tactical Forums, SEAL Forum there was thread where Frogman(moderator) basically said the same thing. According to him the SEALs were very satisfied with the Mk 11 Mod 0 so they felt no need for a 5.56 version. The SEALs preferred 16" carbine or Recon Rifle, with 4x optic(ACOG) to fulfill a similar role that the other services used the SPR for.

IIRC, Wes is now building Recon Rifle clones...

As far as the definition of SPR, I think it's more or less used to describe most 18" precision AR's...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:26:33 AM EST
Why not.

Light weapon, easily configurable, easy to find field replacement parts, CQB and Long range.

Sounds like a good rifle to me.


Some pics to lure more of yall into building/getting one...

































Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:37:38 AM EST
SPR (special purpose rifle) this abrevation has been around a long time way before the Crane setup all kinds of SPR. Yes my next build is going to be A 308 SPR Armilte. So dont say SPr sucks it just the caliber U dont like.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:37:41 AM EST
The idea for the SPR or Special Purpose Reciever was a seperate upper to add to the M4A1. Since replacement of the M21 with the M24 we had a need for a semi 7.62mm sniper rifle. We could not get enough guns (SR25) to take care of the need. The SR25 are also on loan and not the users guns. Hence the development of the SPR, we prefer a gas gun for our needs and not bolt guns for target rich enviroments. Later when the other SOF units liked the idea and asked for them also, Crane built the complete guns and not just uppers. The 6.8mm was developed by us later based on combat experience. This the history as I know it as one of the testers and general user of the weapons.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:53:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 5:54:02 AM EST by gplg]

Originally Posted By mattld:
I do not have a SPR. But I would bet most people get them for the "cool" factor.

But besides, if one wanted a SPR-tpe rifle in 7.62, then the obvious choice would be the Mk11 Mod 0 from Knight's.

Mk 11 Mod 0 Link



how much do the mk11's go for?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:05:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:
SPR (special purpose rifle) this abrevation has been around a long time way before the Crane setup all kinds of SPR. Yes my next build is going to be A 308 SPR Armilte. So dont say SPr sucks it just the caliber U dont like.



The Special Purpose Rifle was a concept developed by Mark Westrom, ArmaLite's president. ("SPR" is a trademark owned by ArmaLite.)

I too have doubts about the 5.56 SPR's utility when there are more suitable calibers so readily available.


5sub
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:16:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 6:33:24 AM EST by mjohn3006]
So..uh..I am getting this:
www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar10a4_spr.htm

Except mine has a stainless barrel.

Guy is giving me a great deal on it. So when I pick it up, and throw a nice scope on it, maybe a bi-pod, I have one of these SPR's everyone is talking about?

Neat, I just thought I was getting an AR-10, but now I can say I am getting an SPR. that sounds so much cooler. In 7.62 no less
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:33:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Timanator:
Why not.

Light weapon, easily configurable, easy to find field replacement parts, CQB and Long range.

Sounds like a good rifle to me.

Some pics to lure more of yall into building/getting one...

www.x-velocity.com/spr/m4a1spr.jpg



Sir, you are da man! Nice pics. As a matter of fact, I joined AR15.Com yesterday for the sole purpose of gathering info on building a SPR. The picture above, is the exact one I want to build.

How about a little education?

I have a Colt SP1 AR-15 .223rem Lower. I need to build the upper. Where do I find the parts? I've searched all over for the handguard and rails, that can match the railed upper, but have had no success.

A little help please!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:53:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 7:02:10 AM EST by burbanite]
Originally Posted By Timanator:


www.x-velocity.com/spr/9.jpg


You can never have too many options as far as optics go...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:09:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By gplg:

how much do the mk11's go for?



About 7K (+/- a few $100). So if someone is worried about spending $700 for a nice bbl, I bet the price of a mk11 would give them a heart atttack.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:17:54 AM EST
Hey 2ndchance,
Give this guy an E-mail Steve@adcofirearms.com
He built an SPR upper for me...It is sweet. Send me your e-mail address to Easyriders317@aol.com and I will send you some pics!
Adco does nice work, and they do not completly break the bank. They have very good feedback from the guys and gals on this forum.

Sean
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:46:53 AM EST
Originally posted by Yojimbo:

IIRC, Wes is now building Recon Rifle clones...



No that is something I liked to see and hear more of!

Well I have put together my version of an SPR. It is an AR-10 with all of the goodies you see on the 5.56 rifles. The only exception is the tube. I have one of the SWS tubes on mine. The barrel is a chromed lined one with a flash suppressor. Now I am saving up money for a barrel from GA Precision. His rifles will shoot half MOA all day long all the way out there! Now with that I have a SR-25 clone for about half the money of one and when I 'm done with it, it may out shoot the SR-25.
Also if the 6.8 gets off to a decent start and once mags become available then I will start to buy parts for a build. I just hope ADCO will have a barrel for it.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 8:59:05 AM EST
Timanator,

Excellent pics!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 9:30:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By mattld:
But besides, if one wanted a SPR-tpe rifle in 7.62, then the obvious choice would be the Mk11 Mod 0 from Knight's.



$$$$$$$$ Now your talking an expensive rifle and not easily found for sale.



You'd have the same level of performance with the standard SR25 w/FF RAS for a lot less money.



Good idea. I did not think of that. But personally, I would get the entire kit for "authenticity".
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 10:28:23 AM EST
Ive given up on the concept of ever having 7g to put on ONE gun.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:34:46 AM EST
if its been said above im sorry but .... i think the biggest advantage is the fact that you are fighting side by side w/others who can throw you a magazine when in a hurry.if your totin a m1a and go dry you are s.o.l whereas the guy w/a spr can just say "hey private johnson throw me mag. bro." a boo yah your back in the fight. having said that ive owned a "spr"for a couple of years now.its called a G3 go to the new pic thread its in there next to my 20" talivarmint rifle. and my ak.bently
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:39:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Ive given up on the concept of ever having 7g to put on ONE gun.


True. The SR-25 would be the cheaper alternative that would do everything that the Mk 11 Mod 0 would do. But then again, even the SR-25 FF is too rich for my blood.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:46:18 AM EST
WTF is going on here.... !!!!????





Stainless
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 1:04:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stainless:
WTF is going on here.... !!!!????


www.x-velocity.com/spr/9.jpg


Stainless


A lot.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 1:24:20 PM EST
My illogical side side says:BUILD ONE BUILD ONE! THEY ARE SOOO DAMN SEXY!! THEY ARE COOL COOL COOL!!!!

My logical side says build up a 700 PSS in .308 0r .300 Win Mag or an M40 or M24 clone, topped with a nice Leupy M1/3 for terminal ballistics for shots beyond 500 yards.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:05:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 4:17:30 PM EST by WARDOG7366]
My SPR kit. Waiting for it's cloaking device camo job.

You can't beat the .308 Win. in 168 gr in the carbine (T) and the .300 Remington Short Ultra Mag with 190 gr. at 2900 FPS is superb to 1200 yards.

Edited 'cause I'm a 'tard with 'puter pic's
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:47:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ahab:
The SPR in 5.56 is a versatile thing...................................





Everthing Ahab Said on page one is everything you need to know.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:19:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 5:25:49 PM EST by thompsondd]
First


Originally Posted By Ghostface:
First off guys lemme say this, I'm an AR fan![/qoute]

then


I never have and don't care for the 5.56. I understand that you can carry more ammo and what the average distance of engagement is, but I still don't care for the 5.56.



Guys, I think John Kerry is posting on ARFcom!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:23:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2ndchance:

Originally Posted By Timanator:
Why not.

Light weapon, easily configurable, easy to find field replacement parts, CQB and Long range.

Sounds like a good rifle to me.

Some pics to lure more of yall into building/getting one...

www.x-velocity.com/spr/m4a1spr.jpg



Sir, you are da man! Nice pics. As a matter of fact, I joined AR15.Com yesterday for the sole purpose of gathering info on building a SPR. The picture above, is the exact one I want to build.

How about a little education?

I have a Colt SP1 AR-15 .223rem Lower. I need to build the upper. Where do I find the parts? I've searched all over for the handguard and rails, that can match the railed upper, but have had no success.

A little help please!




Try Wes Grant at MSTN. They are also listed in the industry section.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:47:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 5:47:57 PM EST by Ghostface]
Originally posted by Wardog:

You can't beat the .308 Win. in 168 gr in the carbine (T) and the .300 Remington Short Ultra Mag with 190 gr. at 2900 FPS is superb to 1200 yards.




Now that's what I'm talkin' about! That's a very nice set up indeed. Ibet you a very proud of her.


And no I'm not John Kerry but you can donate to my fund...my beer drinkin' fund!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:46:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Originally posted by Wardog:

You can't beat the .308 Win. in 168 gr in the carbine (T) and the .300 Remington Short Ultra Mag with 190 gr. at 2900 FPS is superb to 1200 yards.




Now that's what I'm talkin' about! That's a very nice set up indeed. Ibet you a very proud of her.


And no I'm not John Kerry but you can donate to my fund...my beer drinkin' fund!





Agreed on the heavier calibers. But I think you guys are missing the point of an SPR.

This is not a sniper rifle, a sniper's purpose is to take out high value target and then move on. One shot one kill.

Spr is to acurately take out targets in a urban environment,(Prob under 400 meters) while being able to have easy accessable ammunition and service parts.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 8:54:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 8:55:55 PM EST by smokycity]
I saw one of these at Quantico Arms last week It was a really nice toy. Not sure if it meets your criteria for a SPR but I like the idea of it as a entry gun. (which what Springfield depicts it as in thier photos)

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:33:58 PM EST
For all my intets and purposes, the 5.56/.223 round is plenty.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 7:52:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By smokycity:
I saw one of these at Quantico Arms last week It was a really nice toy. Not sure if it meets your criteria for a SPR but I like the idea of it as a entry gun. (which what Springfield depicts it as in thier photos)

www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/SOCOM16.jpg



We've sold several of the SOCOM M-1As, and have standing orders for more. It seems to be very popular.

However, I would hesitate to consider this for a "Entry" rifle. The blast and flash from a muzzle braked 16 in barrelled 7.62 rifle would do horrendous damage to unprotected ears, in a building, and not much better outside.

Just my humble, half deaf, Armchair Commando opinion. (Possibly even a little hypocritical, since I own a 16 in barrel short gas system FAL. )
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