Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/18/2012 4:17:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 4:18:08 PM EST by EVR]
OK;

So here we have AR15.com, and here we have Remington Arms. Seems like never the twain shall meet. How come?

I have no plans to buy a Remington, but it sure is curious that few pop up here in threads. I think they've sold many, but maybe to a different "AR Crowd" than those that frequent this forum.

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:20:13 PM EST
nope, no Remington thoughts here.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:22:08 PM EST
Only Bushmaster thoughts!
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:25:21 PM EST
Dirty, dirty Noveske thoughts.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:30:53 PM EST
Remington AR type rifles tend to be configured for hunting, while most arfcommers use them for other sporting and defensive applications. Cerberus targets different firearms comsumers with different branding concepts. Notice that we did not see many police officers driving Lincoln Towncars?
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:32:58 PM EST
Remington 870. Yes
700 maybe
AR nope
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:48:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 4:57:59 PM EST by EVR]
I wonder how many they sell.

Actually, I have a hunch as far as total % number of AR's sold, but am not sure.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:55:01 PM EST
camo'd dpms to target fudds, so yeah we love em
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 4:56:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:01:01 PM EST
For the "gotta have what the military uses" crowd there should be a spike in interest here soon. Remington won a 24,000 M4A1 contract with the .mil last April.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:13:50 PM EST
All of my rifles are for "sporting purposes" only.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:28:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 5:35:14 PM EST by DanW]
I've got an R15 VTR and love it. It is easily my most accurate AR, shooting just over 1/2 inch groups. Camo or not, it is still an AR, and a tack driver, at that.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:30:30 PM EST
Remington brand for the fudd market, and DPMS and Bushmaster for the rest.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:56:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Moondog:
Remington brand for the fudd market, and DPMS and Bushmaster for the rest.


Just to be clear here, the R-15 is/was made by Bushmaster. The R-25 is made by DPMS. So in reality they're generally the same guns. There are minor differences. Even the AR-10 styles offered/branded by Bushmaster are built by DPMS. Now that the Bushmaster brand has moved manufacturing from Windham, Maine to Illion, NY the whole production thing get's blurred.

Just know that DPMS, Bushmaster and Remington and others are all owned by the same company, Freedom Firearms Group which is in turn owned by Cerebus Holdings.

The Bushmaster of today is not the same as Bushmaster of the past. The Bushmaster name still sells plenty of ARs but they have stiffer competition these days.

Link Posted: 11/18/2012 7:25:19 PM EST
The Bushmaster of today is not the same as Bushmaster of the past. The Bushmaster name still sells plenty of ARs but they have stiffer competition these days.


Yes Sir, about 5 or 6 years ago, and back, Bushy was THE SHIZZ! LOL, they built good stuff, and I owned an HBar, that was a great shooting gun. Very true though, MUCH MUCH better stuff out there now, at competitive prices. L2
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 7:26:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84:
For the "gotta have what the military uses" crowd there should be a spike in interest here soon. Remington won a 24,000 M4A1 contract with the .mil last April.


Get back to us here if Remington actually delivers any.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 7:49:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By L2Bravo:
The Bushmaster of today is not the same as Bushmaster of the past. The Bushmaster name still sells plenty of ARs but they have stiffer competition these days.


Yes Sir, about 5 or 6 years ago, and back, Bushy was THE SHIZZ! LOL, they built good stuff, and I owned an HBar, that was a great shooting gun. Very true though, MUCH MUCH better stuff out there now, at competitive prices. L2


Honestly I find the current Windham Weaponry ARs, made in the old Bushmaster plant in Maine, to be better than the old Bushy's made there. And price point they are quite a bit cheaper than the comparable NY Bushmasters. Seems like a no brainer if deciding between those two. Now if they would just quit using 1/9 twist barrels or at least offer a 1/7, and begin using "F" marked FSBs.

Link Posted: 11/18/2012 7:54:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:
They sell ar15 marketed at hunters, not a lot of interest in that here.


Link Posted: 11/18/2012 8:44:13 PM EST
Lots of us use them for hunting. Go check out the outdoor hunting forum.


Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
Remington AR type rifles tend to be configured for hunting, while most arfcommers use them for other sporting and defensive applications. Cerberus targets different firearms comsumers with different branding concepts. Notice that we did not see many police officers driving Lincoln Towncars?


Link Posted: 11/18/2012 9:50:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 9:50:59 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 10:15:16 PM EST
I roll my own...All my AR's are frankinguns
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 8:45:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 8:46:26 AM EST by Eric300]
Originally Posted By DanW:
I've got an R15 VTR and love it. It is easily my most accurate AR, shooting just over 1/2 inch groups. Camo or not, it is still an AR, and a tack driver, at that.


Ditto!



Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:00:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By mstennes:
Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84:
For the "gotta have what the military uses" crowd there should be a spike in interest here soon. Remington won a 24,000 M4A1 contract with the .mil last April.


Get back to us here if Remington actually delivers any.


Also... Get back to us if Remington offers the mil-spec version to us civilians.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 9:12:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 9:18:17 AM EST by gggplaya]
Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84:
For the "gotta have what the military uses" crowd there should be a spike in interest here soon. Remington won a 24,000 M4A1 contract with the .mil last April.


ehhh, that's on hold right now. Colt is arguing back saying remington didn't factor in the price of royalty fees paid back to colt under the contract bid. So basically, we'll know after the hearing is over. To me it just feels like Colt trying to get rich from extorting american tax dollars again.

It was supposed to be resolved on september 24th, but haven't seen anything on it yet.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:34:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By gggplaya:
Originally Posted By 19Charlie_84:
For the "gotta have what the military uses" crowd there should be a spike in interest here soon. Remington won a 24,000 M4A1 contract with the .mil last April.


ehhh, that's on hold right now. Colt is arguing back saying remington didn't factor in the price of royalty fees paid back to colt under the contract bid. So basically, we'll know after the hearing is over. To me it just feels like Colt trying to get rich from extorting american tax dollars again.

It was supposed to be resolved on september 24th, but haven't seen anything on it yet.


It's more like Colt making sure they get paid the royalties from another company using Colt's intellectual property. The TDP for the M4 carbine is owned by Colt, not the DOD. Colt designed the weapon on their own.

The ruling stated that the contract had to be reopened. Remington never included the cost in their original bid. Now they have to. The downside for Remington is that Colt and any other manufacturer that will compete now know exactly what Remington bid per rifle and can make their own adjustments.

I'm not sure how getting paid for a product that you developed on your own equals "extorting american tax dollars". If you designed a product wouldn't you want to make money off of other people using your design for their own product?

Rob
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:58:33 AM EST
Totally of my own topic, but seems to me the easiest approach to a solution would be for the DoD to spec out a new "midi" and skirt the whole issue. Might result in longer gun life and less maintenance, too.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:29:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By EVR:
Totally of my own topic, but seems to me the easiest approach to a solution would be for the DoD to spec out a new "midi" and skirt the whole issue. Might result in longer gun life and less maintenance, too.


Do you think Remington would be ok with if the DoD spec out a new M24/M40A5 and 870 MCS by cutting 2” off the barrel, equipped them with super roger stock and award a contract to Colt or someone else?

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:48:17 PM EST
Part of the problem is also that Colt doesnt want to give in to the Armys new list of wants with the heavier barrel that comes on the SOCOM model and other improvment upgrades...i cant wait until remington defense starts cranking out M4s so I can see the threads about how much everyone else sucks compared to Remington...just think of this the holding company that owns Bushmaster,DPMS,Remington,The old professional ordnance acn you see whats going on..what if all 4 were making rifles under contract and sharing the TDP as its not under Colts control.Now Colt cant hold the Govt hostage on years longs contracts because they were sole supplier at one point...now you can crank out a contract say like that in half the time....just a thought.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:49:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:52:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By EVR:
Totally of my own topic, but seems to me the easiest approach to a solution would be for the DoD to spec out a new "midi" and skirt the whole issue. Might result in longer gun life and less maintenance, too.


...and then watch them cry when Colt submits "prior art":



~Augee
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:55:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 1:57:49 PM EST by bullofspadez]
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Remington 870. Yes
700 maybe
AR nope


Yes
Yes
ETA - Nylon 77 Yes
Nope
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:18:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By pun:
Part of the problem is also that Colt doesnt want to give in to the Armys new list of wants with the heavier barrel that comes on the SOCOM model and other improvment upgrades...i cant wait until remington defense starts cranking out M4s so I can see the threads about how much everyone else sucks compared to Remington...just think of this the holding company that owns Bushmaster,DPMS,Remington,The old professional ordnance acn you see whats going on..what if all 4 were making rifles under contract and sharing the TDP as its not under Colts control.Now Colt cant hold the Govt hostage on years longs contracts because they were sole supplier at one point...now you can crank out a contract say like that in half the time....just a thought.


What, really?

Colt has been trying to make adjustments to the M4 TDP for years. They lobbied for years to try and get the extractor spring and buffer changed before the military finally decided to get off its ass and do it. Do you know why A2s were marked with selector positions on both sides of the receiver? Because Colt has been trying to get an ambidextrous selector lever adopted since 1983.

20" barrel and collapsible stock solution? Vltor A5 kit, right? Brand new innovation in the AR market, isn't it? Go google "Colt ACR" and tell me what you find. Speaking of which - sloping cheekweld stocks? I wonder where that idea came from...

Do you really think the contract terms are going to allow Remington/Bushmaster/DPMS/et al to sell M4 derivatives on the commercial market using Colt's TDP, even if they did eventually get re-awarded a contract in a re-compete?

You really think Cerberus / Freedom Group would give two shits about the commercial market if they were to secure a major military contract? They follow the money, nothing else - and with no government contracts, the commercial market's all they've got. Look at the ACR, they've already told the commercial market to fuck off trying to sell a carbine no one wants, that was dropped from the IC competition.

Yet again, I'm amazed by what utter horse-shit people believe, pun intended.

You know what, forget it. You're right, Colt's the evil empire. They must be destroyed.

Never mind them and their subsidiaries providing combat weapons to ninety percent of the premiere forces in the free world for the last half century. Rah rah, Freedom Group! Go Cerberus! Down with Colt!

~Augee
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 2:29:06 PM EST
All three Remington-marked AR-15s that I've seen shot have broken under light use. They are shit.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:00:12 PM EST
I took my new piece of shite R-15 to the range last week to get a 100 yard zero. Took exactly 6 rounds after using a laser bore-sight device and the back of a target to get on paper at 50. Moved to 100. First shot high left, then added two clicks right. Fired two more, then added 5 clicks down. 3 more shots, then put it in the bag. I wanted to shoot 200 and 300, but wife had a Thanksgiving big honey-do waiting. Nikon M-223 3-12x42 BDC 600 glass. Cheap 55 grn IMI.

I love this thing. If Remington/Bushmaster makes an R-15 in 300 Blackout, I'll be the first in line and put an M-308 on it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_AkAK6iOzHQ/UKrSbSrfrYI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/cWp9nXb6upY/s800/my_r1501.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kELPVnWT5Fw/UKrSaY-R5DI/AAAAAAAAAYI/xJkd8jbZvFA/s800/20121110_115053-001.jpg
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:00:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 3:01:52 PM EST by lmssts]
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By EVR:
Totally of my own topic, but seems to me the easiest approach to a solution would be for the DoD to spec out a new "midi" and skirt the whole issue. Might result in longer gun life and less maintenance, too.


...and then watch them cry when Colt submits "prior art":

http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmshannon/middy.jpg

~Augee


I’ve seen many posts here saying colt is outdated … shit.. now I've learned that my new PSA 16” A1 “midi” is just a retro.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:15:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
They sell ar15 marketed at hunters, not a lot of interest in that here.



Oh, sure some people here hunt, but I don't think it's a lot. Byron South posted here for awhile years ago, but there was little interest in varmint hunting. Too bad as he's a very intelligent guy and a real,hardcore advocate of,hunting with ar15s.


You dont visit the hunting forums much I guess, or look at my deer vs 223 threads every year?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:19:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
They sell ar15 marketed at hunters, not a lot of interest in that here.



Oh, sure some people here hunt, but I don't think it's a lot. Byron South posted here for awhile years ago, but there was little interest in varmint hunting. Too bad as he's a very intelligent guy and a real,hardcore advocate of,hunting with ar15s.


You dont visit the hunting forums much I guess, or look at my deer vs 223 threads every year?


Well you know...He is in New York!

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:32:58 PM EST
Thats the whole thing Colt doesnt have the sole rights to the TDP anymore the military can give it out to anyone it wants to manufacture for them..im glad their more civilian friendly now but that wasnt always the case and its only so because their military contracts are not what they used to be otherwise youd still be seeing oddball sized ARs from them.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:59:09 PM EST
this thread isnt about colt.





20 inch 1:10 .308

well worth the $$
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:04:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By pun:
Part of the problem is also that Colt doesnt want to give in to the Armys new list of wants with the heavier barrel that comes on the SOCOM model and other improvment upgrades...i cant wait until remington defense starts cranking out M4s so I can see the threads about how much everyone else sucks compared to Remington...just think of this the holding company that owns Bushmaster,DPMS,Remington,The old professional ordnance acn you see whats going on..what if all 4 were making rifles under contract and sharing the TDP as its not under Colts control.Now Colt cant hold the Govt hostage on years longs contracts because they were sole supplier at one point...now you can crank out a contract say like that in half the time....just a thought.


What, really?

Colt has been trying to make adjustments to the M4 TDP for years. They lobbied for years to try and get the extractor spring and buffer changed before the military finally decided to get off its ass and do it. Do you know why A2s were marked with selector positions on both sides of the receiver? Because Colt has been trying to get an ambidextrous selector lever adopted since 1983.

20" barrel and collapsible stock solution? Vltor A5 kit, right? Brand new innovation in the AR market, isn't it? Go google "Colt ACR" and tell me what you find. Speaking of which - sloping cheekweld stocks? I wonder where that idea came from...

Do you really think the contract terms are going to allow Remington/Bushmaster/DPMS/et al to sell M4 derivatives on the commercial market using Colt's TDP, even if they did eventually get re-awarded a contract in a re-compete?

You really think Cerberus / Freedom Group would give two shits about the commercial market if they were to secure a major military contract? They follow the money, nothing else - and with no government contracts, the commercial market's all they've got. Look at the ACR, they've already told the commercial market to fuck off trying to sell a carbine no one wants, that was dropped from the IC competition.

Yet again, I'm amazed by what utter horse-shit people believe, pun intended.

You know what, forget it. You're right, Colt's the evil empire. They must be destroyed.

Never mind them and their subsidiaries providing combat weapons to ninety percent of the premiere forces in the free world for the last half century. Rah rah, Freedom Group! Go Cerberus! Down with Colt!

~Augee

Augee,
Well said!

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:16:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By pun:
Thats the whole thing Colt doesnt have the sole rights to the TDP anymore the military can give it out to anyone it wants to manufacture for them..im glad their more civilian friendly now but that wasnt always the case and its only so because their military contracts are not what they used to be otherwise youd still be seeing oddball sized ARs from them.


The military gained limited license rights to use the M4 TDP to second source production, but not the sole rights of the TDP. Colt will still receive royalties from the DoD for any guns derived from the M16 until 2050.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:26:37 PM EST
Remington,

I hope they get the contract back. I would love to see all the crying about it....


Mmmm Purdy

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:27:25 PM EST
or even JP since that is essentially a JP Rifle
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 5:54:49 PM EST
My R15 has been flawless. And is very accurate.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:47:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
They sell ar15 marketed at hunters, not a lot of interest in that here.



Oh, sure some people here hunt, but I don't think it's a lot. Byron South posted here for awhile years ago, but there was little interest in varmint hunting. Too bad as he's a very intelligent guy and a real,hardcore advocate of,hunting with ar15s.


You dont visit the hunting forums much I guess, or look at my deer vs 223 threads every year?


Hate to sidetrack, but have you ever tried the Remington .223 55gr Power-Lokt (R223R2) in any of those threads?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:51:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 6:55:01 PM EST by MTNmyMag]
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
They sell ar15 marketed at hunters, not a lot of interest in that here.



Oh, sure some people here hunt, but I don't think it's a lot. Byron South posted here for awhile years ago, but there was little interest in varmint hunting. Too bad as he's a very intelligent guy and a real,hardcore advocate of,hunting with ar15s.


You dont visit the hunting forums much I guess, or look at my deer vs 223 threads every year?


Hate to sidetrack, but have you ever tried the Remington .223 55gr Power-Lokt (R223R2) in any of those threads?


No, I am not familiar with that bullet. I killed 4 with the old core-lokt back in season 1, it worked ok but I dont like core-lokts as a rule. Ill will look into R223R2

ETA after looking at Remington Website it looks like a no go for me. its a varmint bullet. I like bonded stuff, the 53 gr superformance is the only time I think I will be using varmint bullets
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:44:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By mrrick:
this thread isnt about colt.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/moorerick55/R25x.jpg



20 inch 1:10 .308

well worth the $$
its not about dpms either

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:46:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 5:46:20 AM EST by TK5]
My dad has one chambered in .243 and suppressed for pigs. Fun gun.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 1:25:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Phixeon:
All three Remington-marked AR-15s that I've seen shot have broken under light use. They are shit.


But, of course, you haven't shot or owned one. Just, seen. Mine has been shot a lot. Zero malfunctions and very accurate. And it's black!!

Top Top