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Posted: 10/15/2004 10:29:12 AM EST
Whats the reasoning with the military going from the govt profile to the HBAR on the M16A2?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:31:05 AM EST
When did that happen? I had not heard that.
Steve
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:32:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By BB:
Whats the reasoning with the military going from the govt profile to the HBAR on the M16A2?



??
The military does NOT use HBAR on the M16A2/A3/A4.

It looks like an HBAR after the front sight tower, but under the handguards it is thinner. An HBAR AR (20") rifle weights 8.5 lbs, an M16A2 weights 7.5 lbs, even though they look pretty much the same with the handguards on.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:34:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911ar-15:

Originally Posted By BB:
Whats the reasoning with the military going from the govt profile to the HBAR on the M16A2?



??
The military does NOT use HBAR on the M16A2/A3/A4.

It looks like an HBAR after the front sight tower, but under the handguards it is thinner. An HBAR AR (20") rifle weights 8.5 lbs, an M16A2 weights 7.5 lbs, even though they look pretty much the same with the handguards on.




yeah, it's thicker up front to either:

a. prevent the rifle from being used as a prybar

or

b. prevent damage to the rifle WHEN it is used as a prybar
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:35:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 10:37:20 AM EST by BB]
Evolution of the AR-15

M16A2
In the late 1970's, the Army re-examined it's rifle situation. Existing M16s were well worn, and the current programs that were looking into a replacement for the M16 were not far enough along. So in 1978, the M16 underwent a Product Improvement Program.

The results were an increased barrel diameter, and one whose rifling was changed from 1:12 to 1:7 to accommodate the new round, developed by Belgium's Fabrique Nationale, the SS109. This round extended the range of the rifle, and propelled a 62gr bullet with a steel core at over 3000 fps.



Perhaps HBAR is the wrong terminology. Why did they increase the barrel diameter?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:36:30 AM EST
More accurate, works better with the M203, and harder to damage than the 'light' barrel...

The M16A2 was designed by the USMC rifle team, and 'make the lightest rifle possible' was not on the priority list...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:40:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
More accurate, works better with the M203, and harder to damage than the 'light' barrel...

The M16A2 was designed by the USMC rifle team, and 'make the lightest rifle possible' was not on the priority list...



When you say "more accurate", are you meaning mechanical accuracy improvement, or improvements to allow the operator to shoot it more accurately?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:48:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By BB:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
More accurate, works better with the M203, and harder to damage than the 'light' barrel...

The M16A2 was designed by the USMC rifle team, and 'make the lightest rifle possible' was not on the priority list...



When you say "more accurate", are you meaning mechanical accuracy improvement, or improvements to allow the operator to shoot it more accurately?



Both

Heavy barrel -> less 'whip' -> intrinsically more accurate

More weight -> easier for operator to shoot accurately
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:53:14 AM EST
OK. So, the root of my question. Do the currently availiable "lightweight" barrels, like those offered by JT, Bushmaster and Colt (Govt. Profile), have an A2 profile or A1 (this is the "pencil" profile I guess??) profile?

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:13:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By BB:
OK. So, the root of my question. Do the currently availiable "lightweight" barrels, like those offered by JT, Bushmaster and Colt (Govt. Profile), have an A2 profile or A1 (this is the "pencil" profile I guess??) profile?




Govt Profile is A2

Other 'light' profiles are all over the map...

Just get the HBAR and carry the extra 1lb...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:18:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By BB:
OK. So, the root of my question. Do the currently availiable "lightweight" barrels, like those offered by JT, Bushmaster and Colt (Govt. Profile), have an A2 profile or A1 (this is the "pencil" profile I guess??) profile?




Govt Profile is A2

Other 'light' profiles are all over the map...

Just get the HBAR and carry the extra 1lb...



Nah, my new project is going for the lightweight thang. Already have an HBAR. Just wanted to know if I was missing something.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:26:06 AM EST
You can get gov't profile barrel from Bushmaster. If you call them up they might even have one in a 1/7 twist for you.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:40:22 AM EST
The Bushmaster NM HBar is about 1" under the handguards and stems down to about 0.75" near the flash hider.

My 24" franken AR15 weighs about 9 lb, the same as my 16.5" Vepr K
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:42:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:44:17 AM EST
I don't find the extra pound too bothersome...my biceps can handle it. I own a gov't profile as well, I don't think the difference is all that. If you've got an HBar, keep it. If you want to buy a 20" rifle, get the gov't profile.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:58:25 PM EST
You missed the point. ARs were ment to be light. If I'm gonna carry a 9lb. rifle around it's gonna be 7.62NATO.

Link Posted: 10/16/2004 4:41:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By BB:
You missed the point. ARs were ment to be light. If I'm gonna carry a 9lb. rifle around it's gonna be 7.62NATO.




I thinks ya right on that one. If/when I get my first 20" 'er it'll be govt. profile for that reason. I'd rather carry an extra pound of ammo, than a pound of barrel diameter.

Tex78
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:36:41 PM EST
I ordered a 20'' gov't profile barrel from Bushmaster almost 2 weeks ago now.... and I'm still waiting........
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:54:11 PM EST
I like HBAR profile for CMP use, Government profile for SPR type use, and pencil barrels for a 'carry around' carbine.

For an M16 a heavy barrel can sustain more automatic fire before meltdown. I am starting to like heavier barrels on my full autos that I use for fun mag dumps.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:36:59 PM EST
The military went from A1 to G'ment profile. There have been TWO barrel profiles for 20 inch M16 barrels.


In Fiscal Year 01 they added 4 ounces of steel under the handguards of the M4A1, as compared to the M4 and earlier M4A1s.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:46:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By druncuncas:

Originally Posted By 1911ar-15:

Originally Posted By BB:
Whats the reasoning with the military going from the govt profile to the HBAR on the M16A2?



??
The military does NOT use HBAR on the M16A2/A3/A4.

It looks like an HBAR after the front sight tower, but under the handguards it is thinner. An HBAR AR (20") rifle weights 8.5 lbs, an M16A2 weights 7.5 lbs, even though they look pretty much the same with the handguards on.




yeah, it's thicker up front to either:

a. prevent the rifle from being used as a prybar

or

b. prevent damage to the rifle WHEN it is used as a prybar



The Addage of field expediancy:

If it's handy, use it! Easier to requisition replacements, than it is to re place requisitions (for the proper tools, that is!)

Many of us who had rifles in the service did use the rifle for a great many things besides hosing bullets. I have seen many incidences of M16's used as door stops, hatch supports on Bradley's, 113's and M1's.

Prybar is certainly a function of a rifle in the field (weather legitimate, or not is another discussion )

While we are on the topic of addages, Here's another old addage we applied liberally, especially while drinking at local German Establishments:

If you take soemthing that ain't nailed down, it not considered stealing. If it IS nailed down, it can always be pried up.

Cheers!



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