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Posted: 9/11/2005 3:06:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:06:51 PM EDT by Death_006]
I have a friend that I talk to alot. We share alot of heated conversations together as well as quite a few competitions at the range. We both love our guns and love to shoot them. Although our tastes in guns differ, we both like the sport itself. A few days ago, he brought up both a valid and 100% true statement. Why do we spend so much on our AR-15's? I mean if you look at it objectivly, all the gun does is punch .22 caliber holes in paper, makes alot of noise, ammo is more expensive that .22 LR, and to top it off the things are loud. You can't hunt deer with them either because they are too small of a caliber. His comments struck me as 100% TRUE.

I mean honestly, how many of use are going to have to use our AR-15 in a life or death situation? How many of us are going to go swimming with our Aimpoints or ACOGS? Are any of us ever going to need to use the magpuls on our magazines? Do we really need that M4gery for room clearing? Are we sniping insurgents with our SPR's? Does that LaRue mount we bought for $120 really matter? Can't we just buy new Aimpoint batteries when we are at the range instead of buying a BUIS? Does that storage compartment in our Forward Grips really do anything? Does it matter that we have Phantoms on our AR-15's instead of an A2 Birdcage? Are we really just grown up boys playing dress up with our barbies?

All of his comments really held true when I stoped for a second and looked back on it. I thought to myself, "I never really use my stuff like it is advertised, why did I buy it?" His comments left me 100% speechless, and I really didn't know what to come back to it with. The only thing I could advise him was to get rid of his AR-15 and trade it in for something that he thinks is fun.

When I told him this, he said "Nah, I am going to keep it. I think I am going to trick it out and have some fun with it".

I just smiled and thought to myself; thats why I do it, for FUN.

So the question to you is, why do you love your Blackrifle? Why in the face of undaunting waves of hicks who have no idea why you love your blackrifle do you continue to battle them? Please respond, and I look forward to seeing what you have to say about this.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:09:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:10:49 PM EDT by GhostRing]
Well it's better than buying a 40K SUV and never going offroad!



***But, according to F-Bomber, we're all gettting ripped off anyway.
These things should be cheaper than an SKS...
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:13:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:
I mean honestly, how many of use are going to have to use our AR-15 in a life or death situation? How many of us are going to go swimming with our Aimpoints or ACOGS? Are any of us ever going to need to use the magpuls on our magazines? Do we really need that M4gery for room clearing? Are we sniping insurgents with our SPR's? Does that LaRue mount we bought for $120 really matter? Can't we just buy new Aimpoint batteries when we are at the range instead of buying a BUIS? Does that storage compartment in our Forward Grips really do anything? Does it matter that we have Phantoms on our AR-15's instead of an A2 Birdcage? Are we really just grown up boys playing dress up with our barbies?


Thanks!

Better tell the people defending their homes in NO that they really don't need a gun. Of course the obvious response to that is "Well you don't need an AR for defense, cheaper guns will work." Well, I like to have the best tool for the job, and I think it is the AR15. Of course, I have lots of fun with mine too.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:14:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:25:34 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]
I use ALL of my ARs for 3-gun shooting. This weekend I dug out my 7.5" SBR for a local match, just for shits and giggles. I was surprised at how well it shot; I was scoring hits on LaRue targets out to 300yds... with short-radius iron sights! I had a HUGE grin on my face when I finished shooting . In the end, I came 3rd place in Tactical Iron class.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:16:41 PM EDT

Are we really just grown up boys playing dress up with our barbies?


Absofrigginlutely. 99.9999% of the time, these are just toys.

Shortly, you'll see some of the permanently adolescent fellas on the board try to deny it, but it's true.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:17:02 PM EDT
Mos t people i believe will nevr need the stuff they buy. It is mostly for fun. I modify my ar n soon to get more because i like to do it. I modify everything i have. Its the type of persn i am and i have always enjoyed firearms of all sorts. Another reason i modify my ar is for protection. I was robbed at gunpoint in the begining of the year. To make a long story short, all i had was a shotgun with 2 rounds at my place of business. I will never be caught in that situation unprepared again.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:18:06 PM EDT
It's merely a hobby for me. It is something I enjoy. I like saving up money to buy something, instead of just saving money cause i might need it. Guns have intrigued me for a very long time. It's the ultimate adult toy, the only thing that compares is a car, which you can say the same thing about. Why do we need to raise our trucks and put oversized BF Goodrich tires on them, just so we can say it will go through a lake? Why do we buy superchargers and turbos for our cars only to find out the spped limit is 55 mph, and those can't really be utilized unless going to a track. It's only for fun. The male mind has to stay busy. His hands must tinker with something constantly. If it's not his car, or firearm, it's his girl.

Why spend your money? Because you earned it. Money is useless if theres nothing to buy.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:19:04 PM EDT
It's funny you mention this. I have the same battle, but for me it is with myself inside my own head. I only have one AR-15 that I got about a month ago, but already I am thinking about another one and how to accessorize it. My first (and only as of now) will always be my KISS AR-15, but I do intend on spending money on stuff I definately don't need.

First off, I just like military styled rifles. I have a couple SKS's, an AK, and now an AR. I also have my deer rifle, my .22lr, and my GLOCK, but none of those give me the same feeling as my AR.

The only thing I can say is, I find it fun to shoot, fun to look at, and fun to find new stuff to accessorize with. I figure, as long as I'm enjoying it, then who cares if it is costing me money. I don't spend my life savings or the money for bills on it. I spend my fun money. I choose to buy AR related stuff instead of that new CD or DVD. It's just how I choose to spend my fun money.

It may not make sense if you look at it from a useful perspective, but it definately makes sense if you look at it from a fun perspective.

Bottom line: It's a hobby and I love it!!

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:19:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:21:51 PM EDT by FL-AR15]
Innovation is the American way of life. Why have something good when it can be great. Plus when the Zombie apocalypse starts those 22LR or single shots won't cut the mustard.

It's all about the BLING.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:20:36 PM EDT
Yes. We're really just grown up boys playing dress-up with our barbies. Except I prefer GI Joes.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:21:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:25:00 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
My AR's don't reject me like da wimenz do.

...............wait, that's not funny

Besides, there aren't many sophomores in college (especially around here, Marksman14 has ISU covered) with 4 AR's, an AK, an M14, SKS, blah blah blah.

I like the fact that at any one time, I'm the most heavily armed person out of the 3000 people that go to my college

WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:28:17 PM EDT
Your friend is right. But he forgot to factor in the FUN factor. All my guns are toys, it's a hobby. They also just happen to be usefull for self defense. I do get annoyed though when I see threads like " which barrel length for room clearing". 99.99% of us will never "clear" a room. I think it's the younger generation that get caught up in all that "tactical" crap, but again, they're just having fun.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:32:06 PM EDT
I don't think of myself as being an overgrown adolescent. I had a certain amount of skill with the rifle while I was on active duty, and I like to think I can maintain that now that I'm retired. And I've always been interested in the aspects of marksmanship involving the control of a tool to make it an extension of one's body.

So it may be somewhat for playing around, but my AR isn't ALL for that.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:47:40 PM EDT by Ky_Bob]
I hunt deer with my AR but it is not why I own it. Having the best tool for the job in self defense is the main reason.

Bob
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:37:27 PM EDT
Why do you wear a seat belt? How often do you utilize that?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:43:39 PM EDT
What kind of shooting do you do? If you bench shoot only at a range, then some of those things may be useful to people who don't bench shoot. I for instance like to take my AR-15 out to the woods at private property when my family goes there. I have never gone to a range yet to shoot.


1. Some people may never have to use their AR-15's in a life or death situation. Some may. Either way, it's nice to know you have something there for a situation like that.

2. Maybe in the woods it starts raining hard, it would be excellent to have the ACOG waterproof rather than have your $1000 optic be destroyed in front of your eyes.

3. Maybe we see someone break into our home on the way home or the front door wide open on the way back from just shooting your M4gery. It would be a great thing to have to make sure nobody did break in or to hold someone at gunpoint until police arrived. Much better than running in with your bare fists and take several pistol rounds in the chest from a criminal who wants your money.

4. Just recently didn't someone sneak onto private property and shoot the other hunters when they came to confront him? An SPR would have been nice to have when the shooting started.

5. Maybe we aren't at the range an our Aimpoint batterires run out. Then a BUIS is keeping your AR-15 operable.

6. Maybe we have extra batteries in our Forward Grips for when our Aimpoint runs out in the woods.


I'm not trying to start any flaming about anything here. Just pointing out that some people have different uses and needs for their AR-15's than others.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:51:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:55:57 PM EDT
Agree-somewhat-and that is why much of the time I use myM261 kit and punch 22 holes with 22's ---but it ain't the same especially at distance. thew noise, recoil-you know.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:18:00 PM EDT
The reason I have AR's is that is the the duty of every American to own and know how to use a rifle. That's not just a corny bumpersticker saying, but something that I and many of my fellow countrymen feel very deeply about. Our government was established by the "will of the people", and when that government revolts against the very will that established it, it should be abolished. I'm no anarchist, racist, government-hating hillbilly; just an American who understands that my freedom is my responsibility. Therefore I practice with my rifle to ensure that I, and my family, will continue to enjoy the freedoms that were paid for with the blood of men greater than I.

Yes, seriously.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:53:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Have your friend watch the news. We get the best gear we can, get the best training we can hoping to never have to use any of it.


C4



In my case I will never use my AR-15 for home defense. I am not buying the parts to make a rifle so that I have the ability to kill someone who wants to kill me, but I do it for the pure excitment of dumping thirty rounds and watching your red dot bounce up and down. It is fun just to put the dot on a pop can and watch the can explode in a cloud of vapor. I have my AR-15 for enjoyment.

The recent events in NO really got me to take the SHTF scenario seriously. However, I would have been out of that town before the infanmous events transpired.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:53:23 PM EDT
It's just for fun, pure and simple. I gots it because I wants it!!!
Not just the AR, but all my guns. Sometimes I like to shoot my AR, sometimes I like to take out the .22 LR and plink, other times I like to spend a leasurely afternoon pooring black powder down the barrel of my smoke pole and throwing big lead boulders downrange with a hurricane sized white cloud!!!
People buy what they like and shootem cause it's fun. Same with cars, while a 1992 cavalier might get you to work and back every day, it's just more fun to do it with a corvette! Even if the cavalier is more practical and economical.
It's all about whatever yanks your chain.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:01:05 PM EDT
Both the 10/22 and the AR15 are perfectly suitable for plinking. Of these two guns, ONLY the AR15 is suitable for defense as well. Might as well kill two birds with one stone....
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:01:26 PM EDT
Simply because I can :-) Its fun to shoot, you can buy lots of cheap wolf ammo on the days you can't afford the good stuff. In mich you can hunt both small game and deer with it. This list can go on and on.
It actually cheaper than a good bolt action rifle with a good quality scope.

And last but not least, If you were going to use a rifle to defend your home, wouldn't you really want it to be something more than a bolt action rifle or a semi auto rife that only holds 5 rounds! I want the right tool for the job too.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:06:03 PM EDT
I do it because if need be I can report with a weapon,ammunition and equipment in common use at the time.Yes its a hobbie and sport for me but its also about keeping my family,neighborhood and country safe and every advancement that I can legally buy to make the system more leathal to a potential enemy is a worthwhile investment.I might never need it in a life or death situation but thats like saying you would rather have the police or government as a first line security for you and your family and thats why you dont need a gun.Id rather have the advantages and not need them then to one day need them and not have them even if it was just needed one time it was there for you when you did.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:25:15 PM EDT
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. hen
When things go bump in the night, my carbine is really nice to have at hand. h,

I enjoy my AR's, and occasionally shoot in them matches as well.
It's nice to be able to so readily build a fine firearm exactly to YOUR desires.
They are toys for big boys.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:39:52 PM EDT
First- Survival is always in the back of my mind. Secondly I love to hunt small game and...Thirdly I was never done playing guns as a boy. Still doing it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:54:34 PM EDT
I too enjoy having my AR. In fact, I am working on my second one. My theory is to be prepared for whatever may hit the fan. I firmly believe that one day citizens will have to take up arms to defend ourselves on our own soil. I have told my wife that I want to be ready in any event. I want my weapons to be perfectly functional for the purposes which I have built them. One never knows when the SWHTF.


Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:01:54 PM EDT
was never aloud to play with guns growing up not even a BBgun,
so now just making up for lost time.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:11:21 PM EDT
It's a , legal, clean, safe, and moral hobby.

R.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:13:06 PM EDT
rg76 was an abused child.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:24:32 PM EDT
Two Words:

RED DAWN.

h.gif



Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:25:06 PM EDT
I have been issued some sort of AR variant for my entire adult life (from the time I was 18 when I joined the Marine Corps on). Initially, I loved to shoot. Then, it became nothing but work. For awhile, I hated going to the range to shoot - always stress, always meeting some standard - I just stopped enjoying it.

Recently, I have begun to enjoy shooting again (basically since I quit the SWAT team a few months back). I like the ARs better than any other rifles or pistols I have. I like going to the range, and just seeing what I can do on my own. No "if you miss, somebody dies" or thinking about life and death while shooting. Just trying to punch paper or knock over steel. It really is relaxing (as much as making all that noise can be). And I love spending time with my 7-year old, who is getting pretty good with the .22 bolt gun, and now wants to shoot my rifles (the AR's). Guess it just boils down to having fun, and being able to play with big boy toys that I have worked hard for the money to be able to buy.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:34:57 PM EDT
If we ever get into a SHTF scenario in my locale, or TEOTWAWKI, they will be useful.

Is that why I buy the stuff...hell no, I had plenty for that purpose a long time ago.

They're cool, that's why I keep buying the stuff.

----------------
A short anecdote:

I guy I know at work is into R/C cars. He has these litttle gas powered jobs that'll probably outrun my S-10. I walk in to his garage, and I see THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in R/C car stuff. I go "hmm."

He comes over to my house. He looks in my gun safe and goes "hmm."

Everybody has a hobby, I guess.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:41:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:47:22 AM EDT by AlaskaJohn]



Skill-at-arms is everybody's business. It is the proper concern of all free men. It cannot be left to the public sector. It must be encouraged in all areas, and at all levels. We do not have the luxury of saying "My type of shooting is more respectable than his." If we take that view, our adversaries will pick us off one discipline at a time.

So let us never say that "black" guns are somewhat suspect, or that only double shotguns are sporting, or that rifles are acceptable, but pistols are not. As long as the shooter is respectable, his firearm is respectable. When he is not, neither is his weapon. Let us keep our focus where it belongs: on the perpetrator rather than upon his instrument. Let us firmly reject the concept that sport is legitimate, but fighting is not. Fighting in a just cause is all that keeps man free, and it is not the sole prerogative of the state. If it were, free states would never have arrived, nor could they survive. If we live in an age of imagery, let us concentrate upon the image of responsibility, decency, courage, competence, and good citizenship.

To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth.
Jeff Cooper




I am a lever action rifle fanatic. But this is why I have my Bushmaster XM15.

edited for spelling.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:59:29 PM EDT
I have 2, going on 3 AR's, and I will probably never have to use one for self defence. The most likely SHTF scenerio I can forsee is being at a convenience store, ATM, etc, and having either my PM9 or 1911 depending on the season. My 20" A2 is for CMP only, the 16" middy I am building is going to live in my truck, and the SPR is just for fun! Actually, I do carry my SPR in the woods during my winter walks in case I see a coyote.

Following the NO disaster, I did I quick sanity check to see how well prepared I would be if mother nature threw me a curve ball. In my neck of the woods 4' of snow is much more likely than a hurricane. I am in a pretty sad state. Only 2 days worth of wood for the garage wood stove. (Need to move in there if the power/nat. gas goes out) Old water, old food, lots of shotgun ammo but only 200 rds of useable .223. I cant count the 1/2 case of wolf I suggest that everyone do a sanity check as well.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 7:33:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 7:35:08 PM EDT by Beltfedleadhead]
The "you don't really NEED it" theory is simply complacency. We have these rifles because they WORK and we know they're the best for a multitude of tasks, as well as very versatile (read: customizable).

We allow ourselves to be seduced by our spouses, friends, co-workers into thinking it's silly to have such expensive toys. But if we ever need one, we'll be prepared and better equipped to survive than our more "practical", gun-less neighbors.

Subconsciously we know why we have them. The fact that we enjoy them does not detract from their practicality. As much as we pride ourselves in being "more than sheep", this type of thinking only indicates our herd-like tendencies.

Buy more rifles. Enjoy them, and enjoy the fact that you have the will and the means to survive.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:18:14 AM EDT
Wow, some great ideas. It would be great if we could get a few more.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:02:09 AM EDT
You guys are just like a bunch of girls with your barbie dolls. You spend tons of money on them just in case you ever need them in SHTF situation. You have been mentioning the NO disaster and having to defend yourselves. I know that in that situation with the warning that they had my ass would have been out of there befor the hurricane hit. Also, probably less than 5% of people will ever have there home invaded. You might think that you are all cool with your 30 round mags or maybe even 100 round C mags but you need to be proficient with your aim because a miss with any gun is still a miss. No criminal breaking into a house would leave just becasue your gun looks cool. In my opinion, leave the military guns to those who really need them, THE MILITARY. I have an AR-15 and so far I do not see the "fun" factor in them. They do just what Death_006 said, they cost more money and do the same to paper as a .22lr. The recoil is even comparable. The bottom line is, you all remind me of that 80's song that goes something like "I always feel like, somebody's watching me". SEEK MENTAL HELP.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:13:59 AM EDT
Fixed it for ya:




Originally Posted By Death_005:
You guys are just like a bunch of girls with your barbie dolls. You spend tons of money on them just in case you ever need them in SHTF situation. You have been mentioning the NO disaster and having to defend yourselves. I know that in that situation with the warning that they had my ass would have been out of there befor the hurricane hit. Also, probably less than 5% of people will ever have there home invaded. You might think that you are all cool with your 30 round mags or maybe even 100 round C mags but you need to be proficient with your aim because a miss with any gun is still a miss. No criminal breaking into a house would leave just becasue your gun looks cool. In my opinion, leave the military guns to those who really need them, THE MILITARY. I have an AR-15 and so far I do not see the "fun" factor in them. They do just what Death_006 said, they cost more money and do the same to paper as a .22lr. The recoil is even comparable. The bottom line is, you all remind me of that 80's song that goes something like "I always feel like, somebody's watching me". SEEK MENTAL HELP.




Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:23:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:32:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By Death_005:
You guys are just like a bunch of girls with your barbie dolls. You spend tons of money on them just in case you ever need them in SHTF situation. You have been mentioning the NO disaster and having to defend yourselves. I know that in that situation with the warning that they had my ass would have been out of there befor the hurricane hit. Also, probably less than 5% of people will ever have there home invaded. You might think that you are all cool with your 30 round mags or maybe even 100 round C mags but you need to be proficient with your aim because a miss with any gun is still a miss. No criminal breaking into a house would leave just becasue your gun looks cool. In my opinion, leave the military guns to those who really need them, THE MILITARY. I have an AR-15 and so far I do not see the "fun" factor in them. They do just what Death_006 said, they cost more money and do the same to paper as a .22lr. The recoil is even comparable. The bottom line is, you all remind me of that 80's song that goes something like "I always feel like, somebody's watching me". SEEK MENTAL HELP.




Are you a democrat?? Sure sound like one. hinking.gif Let's pretend that just 1% of the population will experience a break in. Want to take the chance that it is you armed with your .22 rifle??? Didn't think so! Not all natural disasters can be seen from a week out. he

C4




I will not be armed with a .22lr, it would ne a 12 gauge, a .40S&W, and a 9mm. And if the shit gets really nasty, then i may run and grab my AR-15.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:32:53 AM EDT
I don't spend a lot of money on mine. I have an 20" A2 and a 16" CAR. I keep them pretty plain jane. I shoot with stock open sites, so the only cost is ammo. As to comparing with a .22, I don't think too many of them can hit that 300 yard gong.
And by the way, that is the FUN.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:16:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:18:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:39:27 PM EDT
All the guns I own are for fun, whether it's a .22 or all the way up to the 50bmg, it's all for fun and recreation. granted the .45 on the night stand and the wife's 9mm on her night stand have a purpose of self defense, they are still fun to shoot like all the rest.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:21:36 PM EDT
I just want to be cool like everyone else!Why do I love my EBR? I have always been into military rifles more than other types of guns. I know my wife, co-workers, and some friends probably think I am crazy but they are fun toys. I doubt I will buy any gadgets other than a light of some sort, but I will probably buy another AR. I couldn't justify it other than it being an expensive hobby that has me hooked like I was on CRACK!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:06:56 PM EDT
I own and shoot my Black Rifles because I can.
There is nothing wrong with owning and using firearms similar to what our Armed Forces use.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:12:03 PM EDT
Are we really just grown up boys playing dress up with our barbies?

LOLOLOL!!!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:14:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 2:15:03 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
On a serious note, I've always liked military style rifles. I've been shooting my grandpa's K98 Mauser WW2 bring-back since I was 12, and became very intrigued with them from there on out.

Death_005, are you sure you're on the right website?


Originally Posted By Death_005:
In my opinion, leave the military guns to those who really need them, THE MILITARY. I have an AR-15 and so far I do not see the "fun" factor in them.



How much more fucking hypocritical can you get in this statement?

I think you belong over at the DU with an attitude like that.

BTW, and just because you don't find the fun in AR's doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way. Shit, there are plenty of people out in San Francisco that think butthumping is fun. Me?.....not quite.

Based on your post count, I smell a little

WIZZO
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:20:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:
.......How many of us are going to go swimming with our Aimpoints or ACOGS?......



You prejudiced SOB.......ya left out EOTech!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:23:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 2:30:50 PM EDT by pun]
If he "Death-006"beleives in that quote hes anti second ammendment anti gun and if he relly beleived it why buy one.Hes just a liberalwho dosent realize its from "THE PEOPLE" the military come from and we have the right to bear similar arms because that train of thought is guarunteed by the constitution and bill of rights.I find ARs fun shooting and to have for serious situations that may never manifest themselves but it makes me a citizen and not a servant for owning a few.The second ammendment has nothing to do with sporting and every thing to do with freedom and power of "THE PEOPLE" sporting is just a side advantage to the true meaning of the second ammendment.Its for the security and safety of yourself,family,community and country.Next hell be saying its a collective right...but I say this there are only 3 times in the bill of rights and I beleive constittution where the words"THE RIGHTOF" and THE PEOPLE" are shown together and thats the 1st,2cnd and 4th ammendments but you never hear liberals wanting to change the 1st and 4th or maybe there waiting to do that once the yget rid of the second.Without the second the bill of rights would mean nothing...it means our freedom is gurunteed by use of force if need be against any enemy to freedom and our charter rights and constitution...Thats why I have military type arms.....the constitution calls them "Weapons in common use at the time".
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