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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/22/2003 5:27:12 PM EDT
Why is 9mm so popular?I'm not into pistol calibers(yet)but i was wondering why 45acp. isn't the popular choice?Doesn't it have much more nock down power?
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:21:34 PM EDT
Not quite sure..... but it might have to do to the fact that most "hi cap" mags for other calibers are limited. Oly is the ONLY one who makes a 45 upper (and 10mm and 40). Since the ban, you are limited to 10 rounds. IMHO
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 8:57:32 PM EDT
9mm is cheaper, for one. And the Oly .45 conversion for the AR only holds 16 rds of .45 vs. 25, 32, 40, or 72rds for the 9mm Colt system.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 8:09:06 AM EDT
Ammo is less expensive. More bang for the buck. Sten mags for an Oly setup are $5 each and work without mods to the lower. You can get a Socom block and a lifetime supply of mags for $150.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 10:33:01 AM EDT
Storminnorman, I have a 9mm OLY because I can shoot it indoors during the winter months. The Sten mags are dirt cheap as well as the ammo. By the way where in CT are you? I'm in Newtown. BobK
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 10:41:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By storminnorman: Why is 9mm so popular?I'm not into pistol calibers(yet)but i was wondering why 45acp. isn't the popular choice?Doesn't it have much more nock down power?
View Quote
Yeah, it's pretty much the mag issue. 9mm mags fit up in an AR15 lower pretty easily, whereas 45ACP mags do not. And as far as knockdown, I'd bet that 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is travelling PRETTY fast, and will hit PRETTY hard. I don't wanna volunteer to test it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 3:13:27 PM EDT
You have more choices with the 9mm... Colt or Oly style... lots of hi-cap mag choices, cheap blasting ammo... The disadvantage? The 9mm, even in a carbine, is WEAK! I have a 10mm Oly, my brother has a carbine in 9mm. He wants my 10mm bad!! There is no comparison power-wise. While I would probably never do it, you could easily hunt whitetails with a 10mm, no way with a 9mm. Compare the cartridges side by side, the 9mm case will fit INSIDE a 10mm case! A good compromise, if you wanted to go with an Oly style, is the .40 S&W. More power than the 9mm, plus you can still use Sten mags and a Socom block. I will admit I sometimes wish I had gone with a .40 instead of the 10mm. Scot
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 7:30:41 PM EDT
Not to be doubtful, but is there any ballistic information to back up those statements? I'd like to see the numbers.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 8:05:51 PM EDT
Gloftoe, Thanks! I was just about to go to bed, now I have to do math... Here's what I came up with, out of my #13 Speer manual. Best load (most energy) for the 9x19 is the 124 grain bullet at 1248 f.p.s. - energy of 429 foot pounds. Best load for the 10mm is 180 grain at 1295 f.p.s. (11 grains blue dot, the same load I use) at 670 foot pounds... over 50% more energy than the 9x19. With heavier bullets, the 10mm auto even outperforms .357 mags! I've chrono'd these loads in my 16" Oly at 1650 fps (approx, I don't remember exactly)... over 1000 foot pounds. Scot
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 12:44:49 AM EDT
Kick ass, Shal1! I appreciate the numbers! Now go to bed. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 1:37:49 PM EDT
Im not going to say that the 9mm is equal to the 10mm but the 9mm out of a carbine isnt exactly weak, I just chroneyed some loads last week, Out of a 16inch Colt: 124gr Hirtinberger =1500fps avg, 124FMJ 7.4grPower Pistol=1547FPS,115FMJ 7.4gr Power Pistol=1603FPS. Now these reloads are over max but show no preasure sighns even when shot out of a glock 17. With the Hirtinberger I was able to consistantly hit a paper plate at 100yds with iron sites, off hand. I also own a Olympic in .45 and its fun but I like the 9mm more. just my opinion. If I could Id own one in each caliber. Paul.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 5:04:18 PM EDT
Qball, You're right about that... I'd love one of each! There is something very cool about pistol caliber carbines, be they ARs or lever actions. I'm considering getting one of Navy Arms 1892 lever guns in .44 mag. Should be fun! The only thing I dislike about my Oly 10mm (other than the mag problem!) is the blowback design limits how hot you can reload. In 10mm, anything much hotter than the 11 grains of blue dot with 180s really slams the bolt back! Recoil is substantially more than .223 recoil. I was considering going with Oly's pneumatic buffer or perhaps the heavier 9mm buffer? Scot
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 6:40:53 PM EDT
Scot, I know what you mean about the recoil, I have been playing around with .45super loads in my Oly, 185gr Golden Saber with 12.2gr Power Pistol = 1700fps and the recoil is noticeable.I would go with the heavier buffer,From what I heard and read the Oly pneumatic has had problems. Paul.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 7:01:12 PM EDT
Qball, You don't have excessive pressure with 12.2 grains of PP? If I go even slightly over max with Blue Dot I get flattened primers. I suppose the difference might be, the 10mm auto is designed as a high-pressure cartridge, while the .45 ACP is not (35k psi vs. 21k psi)and you have a lot more room for improvement. Have you tried slower burning powders to take advantage of the extra barrel length? I've experimented a little with my 10mm, Unique is definitely a bad performer, being a fast burning powder. Blue Dot is definitely the best so far... it's a little slower burning. I've tried 2400 and cannot approach the velocity of the Blue Dot... which is surprising as 2400 is slower and I've had success making excellent .44 mag loads with it. I've been wanting to experiment with H110 (works great in .44 mags) or maybe something slower like H322 but don't know where to start, I've never found any decent reloading data for pistol calibers in carbines other than for .357 or .44 mag. Scot
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 6:17:09 AM EDT
Scot, The 12.2gr loads have primers that look like there standard .45 loads, I was surprised at the velocity i got, I was expecting around 1600fps. acording to some data that i got of this site from Fritze He was at 13.5 grs before he reached 1740fps out of a 16inch barrel. I dont plan on going any higher. I suspect im getting higher vel because of the driving band on the Golden Saber bullet. If I was you i would give Power Pistol a try, Ive heard of guys liking it for 10mm. Ill see if I can post some pictures of the primers from the Super loads.To any one else reading this the loads for the .45super have to be loaded in .45 Super brass only! its sold by Starline. Paul.
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 6:26:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shal1: The disadvantage? The 9mm, even in a carbine, is WEAK! While I would probably never do it, you could easily hunt whitetails with a 10mm, no way with a 9mm.
View Quote
[img]http://www.tvcc.edu/faculty/ballen/hogs/hog9mm.jpg[/img] Can someone post the foot pounds of energy of Winchester 147 grain TCMC 9mm out of a 16" barrel please? It dropped a 200-225lb pound boar (see above) like he had been hit by a truck. Dead center of mass with the hog facing me. Fell in his tracks and you can see from the pic how little he kicked/thrashed after the hit. TRG
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 7:15:35 AM EDT
TRG, That's pretty cool! I would love to try boar hunting some day. What I meant to say is the 9mm is less powerful, the numbers don't lie! Regardless, I sure wouldn't want to get shot with one. For what it's worth, my favorite pistol is a 9mm Hi-Power and I'm sure I'll get an AR 9mm one of these days too! Regarding the kinetic energy of your 147 grain loads, I doubt you will find any published data from carbine length barrels. If you have access to a chronograph, use this formula to get the foot-pounds of energy. velocity squared / 450400 times the bullet weight in grains. Scot
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