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Posted: 10/17/2006 5:05:13 PM EST
I just order an EOTech form rainier, but they are out of YHM risers and have had them on order for a very long time. It seems that YHM is very slow to fill orders. I have looked on most of the sponsors websites and noticed that they are out of them as well. YHM is also out of them. Does anyone know a place that have them ?
Link Posted: 10/17/2006 6:22:13 PM EST
I was never happy with my YHM riser. Even after they replaced it it still would never go tight enough. That may be my reciever's fault - i dont know and dont care - the point is it did not work for me. I currently run a dominator but will try the LT soon.
Link Posted: 10/17/2006 6:29:34 PM EST
I would say I'm very happy with my LaRue riser but I've loosened the lever so much to keep it from marring my upper, I can feel a tiny bit of play in it. I will tighten it back up.
Link Posted: 10/18/2006 3:43:10 AM EST
I just purchased the Larue riser. Very nice and worth the price. It holds tight just like it is supposed to. Its hard to find the YHM risers, I read somewhere they are updating it.
Link Posted: 10/18/2006 4:36:16 AM EST
+1 on the LaRue riser. I run one with my 511 and it keeps a deadnuts zero each time I remove and put it back on. I wish that L3 would have used LaRue when they built the 553. Nothing wrong with ARMS mounts, but I like the adjustability of the LaRue.

A little more pricey, but worth it over the YHM in my opinion.

Link Posted: 10/18/2006 5:08:33 AM EST
I use the GG&G mount with my EOTech, and like it alot. It's 75 bucks, rock solid, and leaves lots of room behind the sight for BUIS. I don't know how long term reliable it is, but I don't plan on taking the EOTech on/off much, just after shooting for cleaning, and in use if it crapped out.
Link Posted: 10/18/2006 7:38:24 AM EST
I received my 512 with the GG&G Accucam and removed it and sold it to fund the LaRue purchase ASAP. Not that the GG&G wasn't good- it was. It just stuck out a little farther than I wanted and I wanted a RISER.

Aren't we talking about RISERs here?

Link Posted: 10/18/2006 9:24:17 AM EST
I had a YHM riser and it Canted the eotech sight on both of the flattops I tried, so I sold it...I will save my $$ for a Larue but for now the straight-flattop mount isnt to bad
Link Posted: 10/18/2006 2:39:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By JosephR:
I received my 512 with the GG&G Accucam and removed it and sold it to fund the LaRue purchase ASAP. Not that the GG&G wasn't good- it was. It just stuck out a little farther than I wanted and I wanted a RISER.

Aren't we talking about RISERs here?



Yes i have been looking for a YHM riser since my eotech will be here tomorrow. It is coming with an accucam so i wanted to get a riser. I like the price of the YHM riser, but YHM is so damn slow at making things and filling dealer orders. Everyone seems to be out of them, including yhm. Teknic has told me that he has had the yhm risers on order for 6 months.
Link Posted: 10/18/2006 3:04:55 PM EST
So you already have the accucam? Sell it and put the money into the LaRue. You will NOT ever want to remove the Eotech from any riser you get. That's just more slop to introduce to the mix and mess up a zero.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 6:35:04 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By texanmutt:
I just order an EOTech form rainier, but they are out of YHM risers and have had them on order for a very long time. It seems that YHM is very slow to fill orders. I have looked on most of the sponsors websites and noticed that they are out of them as well. YHM is also out of them. Does anyone know a place that have them ?


I've been using the RRA Dominator mount over here in the sandbox for the past seven months and I'm satisfied with it.

May not be as sexy as an ARMS #40 but it's rock solid and works.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 3:20:53 PM EST
Well I'm happy with my YHM riser with an Accucam. Plenty solid on my Bushmaster upper.



I wouldn't ask for more and I couldn't justify the LaRue mount which also has a portion of raised rail behind it that I have no use for. It is, however, comparable in price to the YHM Riser and Accucam combined.
Link Posted: 10/19/2006 6:41:19 PM EST
I'm pretty sure at $110 shipped from Denny it's cheaper...

Besides, when you want to remove your Eotech and throw on a scope, one lever removes them both. I don't see why you'd want to remove the Eotech and leave the riser in place.

Also, I'd like to clamp the Eotech down once and not mess with it's goofy little grabber that has been known to not hold zero well. The accucam uses the same clamp and opens and closes it every time...

Link Posted: 10/20/2006 4:44:59 AM EST
What did it for me was the cost of the YHM + Accucam was right there with the LT. No Q to me that the LT is better functioning and quality.
Link Posted: 10/20/2006 8:45:25 AM EST
Well I got my EOTECH with the Accucam in a bundled deal for what most people sell just the sight for.

Next question, what do I do with that funky rail stub behind the EOTECH?
Link Posted: 10/20/2006 9:08:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
Well I got my EOTECH with the Accucam in a bundled deal for what most people sell just the sight for.

Next question, what do I do with that funky rail stub behind the EOTECH?


you just can't beat the EOTech riser from LaRue Tactical, it is the best QD riser on the market...bar NONE.

the lever is adjustable for various manufacture's rail tolerence and the qucik release offers return to zero capability. I have always sight in my rifle when ever I remove my sight, but for what it is worth, everytime i remove the EOtech riser from Larue, it has basically return to zero on every occassion.

the small rail tab in the back are for mounting NVD or your Aimpoint magnifier.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 4:45:18 PM EST
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 5:37:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 6:13:13 PM EST by texanmutt]

Originally Posted By tharper:
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?


No. The Larue mount is meant to raise the EOTech ring above the irons. Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.

Link Posted: 10/24/2006 6:38:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By tharper:
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?


No. The Larue mount is meant to raise the EOTech ring above the irons. Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.

img74.imageshack.us/img74/6336/ar016ht4.jpg


But if you raise your head to get the reticle over the post, then you are changing your cheeckweld...

Why ask about the funky chunk of rail behind your Eotech if you are using an accucam? Trying to be a wise guy?
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 6:54:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By JosephR:

Why ask about the funky chunk of rail behind your Eotech if you are using an accucam? Trying to be a wise guy?

What ? I started the topic by asking if anyone new a dealer that had a YHM riser in stock. Others gave me advice to think about the larue. Then someone asked if the larue co witnessed with the irons. I answered it and stated i might not even get a riser after trying out my eotech at the range. What are you getting at?
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 11:30:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By tharper:
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?


No. The Larue mount is meant to raise the EOTech ring above the irons. Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.

img74.imageshack.us/img74/6336/ar016ht4.jpg
Hmmm, have you ever looked through one? Maybe mine is defective. The Larue does indeed raise the Eotech but the irons are still visible. They are just move into the lower third of the window.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 4:39:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By UPSguy:

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By tharper:
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?


No. The Larue mount is meant to raise the EOTech ring above the irons. Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.

img74.imageshack.us/img74/6336/ar016ht4.jpg</a>
Hmmm, have you ever looked through one? Maybe mine is defective. The Larue does indeed raise the Eotech but the irons are still visible. They are just move into the lower third of the window.


It recenters the dot 1/4 inch above the irons.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:32:07 AM EST
I personally like the riser. I think I can find the dot faster and my cheek weld feels more comfortable with it raised just a little bit. That is strictly my opinion on my carbine though. As for raising the dot above the sights and having a lower 1/3 cowitness I like that too. If I had a fixed FSB I'd like it even more. On my set up it also allowed me to move the Eotech forward without it straddling the upper and DD literail. Hope some of these thoughs have been helpful since the thread got away from what you originally asked.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 8:17:38 AM EST
sorry, that comment was for Glock_10mm. He stated

Well I got my EOTECH with the Accucam in a bundled deal for what most people sell just the sight for.

Next question, what do I do with that funky rail stub behind the EOTECH?


So I ask him, Why ask about the funky chunk of rail behind your Eotech if you are using an accucam? Trying to be a wise guy?
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:32:57 AM EST

Next question, what do I do with that funky rail stub behind the EOTECH?









You use it to mount additional hardware.

- PVS-14 (the short mount is lower profiled, so it stays out of your way, when helmet-mounted or packed)

- Aimpoint 3X Mag. (the low-mount creates a smaller package, when used in unison with the LT EOTech mount...you can easily drop the whole unit in a pocket)

Mark



Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:37:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 11:52:57 AM EST by mfingar]

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By tharper:
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?


No. The Larue mount is meant to raise the EOTech ring above the irons. Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.

img74.imageshack.us/img74/6336/ar016ht4.jpg</a>


Sorry to correct you...Yes you can.

ETA: You should try a riser, I was an unbeliever before I did. Personally, the irons are too much in my way without one. (trying to line up the irons with an operational EOTech is counter-productive to why you need a BUIS system to begin with). The EOTEch's reticle is useful anywhere in the viewing window. You can index both sites, to ensure zero, but if you're making a practice of shooting, with the EOTech's reticle lined-up with the Irons, you are simply not using the HWS to it's full advantage.

As mentioned above. the LT riser will hold it's zero time and time again after being removed and reinstalled. No other mount can match it.

Link Posted: 10/25/2006 2:03:58 PM EST
I went with the Dominator 2 by RRA. A bit pricey, but you get the BUIS and the riser in one peice. I've been very happy with that setup.



Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:30:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By JosephR:
sorry, that comment was for Glock_10mm. He stated

Well I got my EOTECH with the Accucam in a bundled deal for what most people sell just the sight for.

Next question, what do I do with that funky rail stub behind the EOTECH?


So I ask him, Why ask about the funky chunk of rail behind your Eotech if you are using an accucam? Trying to be a wise guy?


That makes more sense.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 7:34:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By mfingar:

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By tharper:
Can you co-witness the irons through the Eotech using the Larue?


No. The Larue mount is meant to raise the EOTech ring above the irons. Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.

img74.imageshack.us/img74/6336/ar016ht4.jpg</a>


Sorry to correct you...Yes you can.

ETA: You should try a riser, I was an unbeliever before I did. Personally, the irons are too much in my way without one. (trying to line up the irons with an operational EOTech is counter-productive to why you need a BUIS system to begin with). The EOTEch's reticle is useful anywhere in the viewing window. You can index both sites, to ensure zero, but if you're making a practice of shooting, with the EOTech's reticle lined-up with the Irons, you are simply not using the HWS to it's full advantage.

As mentioned above. the LT riser will hold it's zero time and time again after being removed and reinstalled. No other mount can match it.

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/Optics/BUISview.jpg

Doesnt cowitness mean that irons line up perectly with the dot? Is the dot acive in the pic. I cant see it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 10:54:17 PM EST
Absolute cowitnessing is when the irons and dot line up. It is still cowintessing when, as with the Larue riser, you can still use your irons with the Eotech in place. many prefer it that way.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 4:00:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 4:03:34 AM EST by mcgrubbs]
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 9:37:10 AM EST
If I flip up my KAC 300m, The Eotech reticle will still be dead center in the rear aperture and on top of the front sight post. It's just that when my rear is down and I aim with the reticle in the CENTER of the window, it floats above the front sight post.

It's hard to imagine...
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:38:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 1:39:32 PM EST by texanmutt]

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
texanmutt,

You need to "re-think" your avatar.

Get the LaRue. It gets the EOthingy up where it needs to be and still allows for co-witness of your irons.

Don't get hung up on this "absolute co-witness" thing. For starters, it's a made-up term by hair-shavers. Second, optics tend to work better when the FOV is un-cluttered. Having your irons visible, but in the lower 1/3 of the FOV allows this.


I dont have to re-think anything.

I guess RRA is a bunch of hair shavers too then-


Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
If you anticipate ever going to a magnifying optic, the A4 with or without Dominator would be the way to go. The EOTech is designed to mount directly to the A4 upper receiver and provide true co-witness with the iron sights. The Dominators were designed to elevate the EOTech's dot/ring out of true co-witness at the request of a federal agency that had found the sight picture very crowded when everything was in true co-witness. The Dominators have a 1/4" rise built in, so the iron sights are still visible in the lower third/half of the optic's "window", but cleans up the sight picture. The original Dominators were set up with a single slot specifically for EOTechs. The Dominator 2 has multiple cross slots for a veriety of mounting options. The UTE-2 receiver has an integral rear sight and an A4 height rail in front of it. EOTechs mount directly to the receiver for true co-witness applications. But...the height and location of the rear sight make it difficult to mount magnifying optics on the UTE-2. You wouold either have to mount it forward (eye relief problems potentially) or very high to clear the sight (accuracy issues).
I'm not sure if that helps or onfuses the issue...
Steve/RRA


From my first post-
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=38&t=151687
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 4:49:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
texanmutt,

You need to "re-think" your avatar.

Get the LaRue. It gets the EOthingy up where it needs to be and still allows for co-witness of your irons.

Don't get hung up on this "absolute co-witness" thing. For starters, it's a made-up term by hair-shavers. Second, optics tend to work better when the FOV is un-cluttered. Having your irons visible, but in the lower 1/3 of the FOV allows this.


I dont have to re-think anything.

I guess RRA is a bunch of hair shavers too then-


Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
If you anticipate ever going to a magnifying optic, the A4 with or without Dominator would be the way to go. The EOTech is designed to mount directly to the A4 upper receiver and provide true co-witness with the iron sights. The Dominators were designed to elevate the EOTech's dot/ring out of true co-witness at the request of a federal agency that had found the sight picture very crowded when everything was in true co-witness. The Dominators have a 1/4" rise built in, so the iron sights are still visible in the lower third/half of the optic's "window", but cleans up the sight picture. The original Dominators were set up with a single slot specifically for EOTechs. The Dominator 2 has multiple cross slots for a veriety of mounting options. The UTE-2 receiver has an integral rear sight and an A4 height rail in front of it. EOTechs mount directly to the receiver for true co-witness applications. But...the height and location of the rear sight make it difficult to mount magnifying optics on the UTE-2. You wouold either have to mount it forward (eye relief problems potentially) or very high to clear the sight (accuracy issues).
I'm not sure if that helps or onfuses the issue...
Steve/RRA


From my first post-
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=38&t=151687


WTF are you trying to say? The Dominator mount isn't as good as the LaRue and a used KAC like I have and the UTE BLOWS HARD DICK and is for window lickers only! Oh, and the occasional beef jerkey salesman at a gunshow who likes to tell stories about what the "real operators" use in Afghanistan right now...


Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:19:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 5:20:35 PM EST by texanmutt]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
WTF are you trying to say? The Dominator mount isn't as good as the LaRue and a used KAC like I have and the UTE BLOWS HARD DICK and is for window lickers only! Oh, and the occasional beef jerkey salesman at a gunshow who likes to tell stories about what the "real operators" use in Afghanistan right now...



It has nothing to do with comparing a larue to an RRA. I posted it to counter the shaved head argument.

The post was from when I was looking at buying a RRA AR, before i ended up building my own. He was telling me the differences in the dominator and the UTE and he told me if I want to put a scope on it eventually not to get the UTE model. That don't matter anyway because the only RRA part on my AR's is the trigger.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:05:28 PM EST
Oh, Ok. You do need to fix your avatar though.

Send me the picture in email and I'll take it in it's TALL ratio and put it on a white background in the correct WIDE format and then shrink it. That way it won't look like fake doodoo and a little more like a little thinking dude...

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:16:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:16:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 6:24:47 PM EST by texanmutt]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Oh, Ok. You do need to fix your avatar though.

Send me the picture in email and I'll take it in it's TALL ratio and put it on a white background in the correct WIDE format and then shrink it. That way it won't look like fake doodoo and a little more like a little thinking dude...



Don't we all do our best thinking on the shitter ?

Edit: I dont see anything on the board that i can send you an attachment with. I'll put the pic here-

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:20:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:

Originally Posted By texanmutt:

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
texanmutt,

You need to "re-think" your avatar.

Get the LaRue. It gets the EOthingy up where it needs to be and still allows for co-witness of your irons.

Don't get hung up on this "absolute co-witness" thing. For starters, it's a made-up term by hair-shavers. Second, optics tend to work better when the FOV is un-cluttered. Having your irons visible, but in the lower 1/3 of the FOV allows this.


I dont have to re-think anything.

I guess RRA is a bunch of hair shavers too then-



Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
If you anticipate ever going to a magnifying optic, the A4 with or without Dominator would be the way to go. The EOTech is designed to mount directly to the A4 upper receiver and provide true co-witness with the iron sights. The Dominators were designed to elevate the EOTech's dot/ring out of true co-witness at the request of a federal agency that had found the sight picture very crowded when everything was in true co-witness. The Dominators have a 1/4" rise built in, so the iron sights are still visible in the lower third/half of the optic's "window", but cleans up the sight picture. The original Dominators were set up with a single slot specifically for EOTechs. The Dominator 2 has multiple cross slots for a veriety of mounting options. The UTE-2 receiver has an integral rear sight and an A4 height rail in front of it. EOTechs mount directly to the receiver for true co-witness applications. But...the height and location of the rear sight make it difficult to mount magnifying optics on the UTE-2. You wouold either have to mount it forward (eye relief problems potentially) or very high to clear the sight (accuracy issues).
I'm not sure if that helps or onfuses the issue...
Steve/RRA


From my first post-
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=38&t=151687


If the shoe fits.....

My post was a comment on the very notion of "true/absolute" co-witness. Largely because it is basically a made-up term. We went along for quite awhile where everyone knew and accepted that co-witness was being able to use your irons thru your optic, period. Then a few folks wanted to start sounding cool and interesting by making up the "absolute/true" moniker to describe a type or method co-witnessing your irons thru your optic. To this day, it sounds like a bunch of "too hip for the room" wanna-be-technical jargon.

BTW, I am betting you missed the intention of my hair shavers phrase. It has NOTHING to do with anyone's haircut. It's akin to hair-splitters, or people who sit around trying to split a hair.


Oh, I though you had superman man vision and could see my head since it's cut down with a 1 guard
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:06:31 PM EST
Cool!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:41:18 PM EST
My Eotech sit on a LMT M4 14.5 and works GREAT along with the arms 40 BUIS

I refuse to add a mount on a mount! ( KISS )

I also like my cow witt to be in the center
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:46:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By JosephR:
If I flip up my KAC 300m, The Eotech reticle will still be dead center in the rear aperture and on top of the front sight post. It's just that when my rear is down and I aim with the reticle in the CENTER of the window, it floats above the front sight post.

It's hard to imagine...

It isn't hard to imagine. You are just changing your cheekweld to rest higher up when you are using only the Eotech. The dot being above the front sight post has nothing to do with risers and everything to do with changing your cheekweld.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:34:54 PM EST


It's hard to imagine...
It isn't hard to imagine. You are just changing your cheekweld to rest higher up when you are using only the Eotech. The dot being above the front sight post has nothing to do with risers and everything to do with changing your cheekweld.

True, if you keep the same cheekweld it doesn't matter if you have a riser or not, the eotech will always put the dot right on the front sight. So there really is no credible argument against risers. They have no disadvantages and one big advantage and that is they de-clutter your glass. And another big advantage of the Larue riser is you can pop the eotech off quickly if the need arises.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:04:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 7:05:05 PM EST by zrxc77]

Originally Posted By kel3at:

True, if you keep the same cheekweld it doesn't matter if you have a riser or not, the eotech will always put the dot right on the front sight. So there really is no credible argument against risers. They have no disadvantages and one big advantage and that is they de-clutter your glass. And another big advantage of the Larue riser is you can pop the eotech off quickly if the need arises.

I prefer a riser, and I think most who try one will also. However, some people (not you) seem to be confused about what a riser does and does not do. What it does is allow you to raise your cheekweld while keeping your eye centered in the glass. What it does not do is magically raise the dot above the front sight post regardless of your cheekweld. Raising your cheekweld is what raises the dot.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:27:59 AM EST
Jesus f*cking Christ guys!

You guys without a riser are talking out of your ass and those of you saying there is no reason to say "absolute" or "lower 1/3" cowitness are fools. There IS a reason to use the term- it came about when aimpoints were becoming very popular and there were soooo many mounts to choose from. They are useful terms and are not for mall ninjas or couch commandos like you suggest.

As far as the Eotech goes, it doesn't matter so much because the reticle works anywhere in the window. The fact that you can bring your rifle up halfway to the firing position and fire when the reticle is on target AND hit it is great. You DO NOT need a cheekweld for that. Cheekwelds are nice for slower accurate fire. A lower 1/3 cowitness like the LaRue gives you is helpful for speed.

But, the way the Eotech works, you can also get a true cowitness through your irons if you want to get a nice cheekweld.

At 50yds I stand and don't have a mushed cheek but keep the reticle on target and fire away.

At 225yds, I get prone and get a nicely mushed cheekweld and keep that reticle right on top of the front post- it does a great job at helping me keep the reticle in exactly the same spot each pull of the trigger.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:47:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Jesus f*cking Christ guys!

You guys without a riser are talking out of your ass and those of you saying there is no reason to say "absolute" or "lower 1/3" cowitness are fools. There IS a reason to use the term- it came about when aimpoints were becoming very popular and there were soooo many mounts to choose from. They are useful terms and are not for mall ninjas or couch commandos like you suggest.

As far as the Eotech goes, it doesn't matter so much because the reticle works anywhere in the window. The fact that you can bring your rifle up halfway to the firing position and fire when the reticle is on target AND hit it is great. You DO NOT need a cheekweld for that. Cheekwelds are nice for slower accurate fire. A lower 1/3 cowitness like the LaRue gives you is helpful for speed.

But, the way the Eotech works, you can also get a true cowitness through your irons if you want to get a nice cheekweld.

At 50yds I stand and don't have a mushed cheek but keep the reticle on target and fire away.

At 225yds, I get prone and get a nicely mushed cheekweld and keep that reticle right on top of the front post- it does a great job at helping me keep the reticle in exactly the same spot each pull of the trigger.


Calm down, Joseph. There is no need to be profane or hurl insults.

I agree that terms such as "absolute cowitness" and "lower 1/3 cowitness" do serve a purpose. However, while reading this board over the years I have seen many people, particularly newcomers, who are confused by these terms and think that absolute cowitness is somehow the best (presumably because it is "absolute"). They don't realize that no one type of cowitness is inherently better than any other. It is all just a matter of personal preference based on where the shooter likes to position the irons relative to the center of the optic.

My own personal preference is to use a riser that puts the irons in the lower portion of the optic's field of view - a "lower 1/3 cowitness", if you will.

To address your specific comments:


As far as the Eotech goes, it doesn't matter so much because the reticle works anywhere in the window.

The Aimpoint works the same way. Are you implying that it does not?


The fact that you can bring your rifle up halfway to the firing position and fire when the reticle is on target AND hit it is great. You DO NOT need a cheekweld for that.

Agreed. But you did write the following in reply to one of texanmutt's earlier posts:


Originally Posted By JosephR:

Originally Posted By texanmutt:
<snip>
Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.


But if you raise your head to get the reticle over the post, then you are changing your cheeckweld...

What point were you trying to make? In the context of that exchange, it sounds as if you are implying that when putting the dot above the irons, a riser eliminates the need to raise your head above the irons' cheekweld, which is not correct. It also sounds as if you feel that changing your cheekweld while using a red-dot sight is a bad thing, which is also incorrect as you have just acknowledged. Perhaps I misunderstood you.


A lower 1/3 cowitness like the LaRue gives you is helpful for speed.

I disagree. I think the benefit of a riser is that it unclutters the field of view. Perhaps we are saying the same thing in different ways, because an uncluttered field of view makes it easier and faster to acquire the target.


But, the way the Eotech works, you can also get a true cowitness through your irons if you want to get a nice cheekweld.

I think this is an example of muddled terminology. What exactly is a true cowitness, and how does it differ from a false cowitness? Any quality cowitnessed 1x red-dot sight, including the Aimpoint, will place the dot on the front sight post when you look through the irons.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:48:25 AM EST
I have a Larue riser and you can easily co-wittness the irons through it. The riser raises the sight up .25" which places the irons in the lower portion of the window, where you can still use them, but they will not take up more space in the Eotech's window.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:23:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By zrxc77:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Jesus f*cking Christ guys!

You guys without a riser are talking out of your ass and those of you saying there is no reason to say "absolute" or "lower 1/3" cowitness are fools. There IS a reason to use the term- it came about when aimpoints were becoming very popular and there were soooo many mounts to choose from. They are useful terms and are not for mall ninjas or couch commandos like you suggest.

As far as the Eotech goes, it doesn't matter so much because the reticle works anywhere in the window. The fact that you can bring your rifle up halfway to the firing position and fire when the reticle is on target AND hit it is great. You DO NOT need a cheekweld for that. Cheekwelds are nice for slower accurate fire. A lower 1/3 cowitness like the LaRue gives you is helpful for speed.

But, the way the Eotech works, you can also get a true cowitness through your irons if you want to get a nice cheekweld.

At 50yds I stand and don't have a mushed cheek but keep the reticle on target and fire away.

At 225yds, I get prone and get a nicely mushed cheekweld and keep that reticle right on top of the front post- it does a great job at helping me keep the reticle in exactly the same spot each pull of the trigger.


Calm down, Joseph. There is no need to be profane or hurl insults.

I agree that terms such as "absolute cowitness" and "lower 1/3 cowitness" do serve a purpose. However, while reading this board over the years I have seen many people, particularly newcomers, who are confused by these terms and think that absolute cowitness is somehow the best (presumably because it is "absolute"). They don't realize that no one type of cowitness is inherently better than any other. It is all just a matter of personal preference based on where the shooter likes to position the irons relative to the center of the optic.

My own personal preference is to use a riser that puts the irons in the lower portion of the optic's field of view - a "lower 1/3 cowitness", if you will.

To address your specific comments:


As far as the Eotech goes, it doesn't matter so much because the reticle works anywhere in the window.

The Aimpoint works the same way. Are you implying that it does not?


The fact that you can bring your rifle up halfway to the firing position and fire when the reticle is on target AND hit it is great. You DO NOT need a cheekweld for that.

Agreed. But you did write the following in reply to one of texanmutt's earlier posts:


Originally Posted By JosephR:

Originally Posted By texanmutt:
<snip>
Now that i have used the EOTech at the range, I'm not sure i even need a riser. The EOTech dot stays on the target when you move your eye. If you raise you head above the irons, the dot follows and stays on the target.


But if you raise your head to get the reticle over the post, then you are changing your cheeckweld...

What point were you trying to make? In the context of that exchange, it sounds as if you are implying that when putting the dot above the irons, a riser eliminates the need to raise your head above the irons' cheekweld, which is not correct. It also sounds as if you feel that changing your cheekweld while using a red-dot sight is a bad thing, which is also incorrect as you have just acknowledged. Perhaps I misunderstood you.


A lower 1/3 cowitness like the LaRue gives you is helpful for speed.

I disagree. I think the benefit of a riser is that it unclutters the field of view. Perhaps we are saying the same thing in different ways, because an uncluttered field of view makes it easier and faster to acquire the target. It is helpful for speed. Saying it is helpful to lessen clutter and not realize that THAT helps speed is silly. You then acknowledge it.


But, the way the Eotech works, you can also get a true cowitness through your irons if you want to get a nice cheekweld.

I think this is an example of muddled terminology. What exactly is a true cowitness, and how does it differ from a false cowitness? Any quality cowitnessed 1x red-dot sight, including the Aimpoint, will place the dot on the front sight post when you look through the irons.


You're trying too hard to sound smart and every time you question me, you end up realizing you are simply not unerstanding what I am saying or we are saying the same thing but in different ways.

Do me a favor, instead of quoting me and then responding to each and every line I write and then halfway through your explanation when you realize what i'm saying, stop and hit the backspace instead of continuing.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:19:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By JosephR:

You're trying too hard to sound smart and every time you question me, you end up realizing you are simply not unerstanding what I am saying or we are saying the same thing but in different ways.

Do me a favor, instead of quoting me and then responding to each and every line I write and then halfway through your explanation when you realize what i'm saying, stop and hit the backspace instead of continuing.

Sorry, Joseph, but I'm not trying to sound smart. I'm trying to share information and clear up confusion. Politely.

Towards that end, since you don't like the format of my original post, I will post my questions again without the quotations:

Are you implying that the Aimpoint, unlike the Eotech, does not allow you to accurately aim with the dot anywhere in the optic's field of view?

What point were you trying to make when you told texanmutt that "if you raise your head to get the reticle over the post, then you are changing your cheeckweld"? The statement itself is self-evident, therefore you must have been trying to convey something else.

Do you believe that when putting the dot above the irons, a riser eliminates the need to raise your head above the irons' cheekweld?

What do you mean by "true cowitness", and how does it differ from any other cowitness? The term "true cowitness" is not one that I have seen in common usage.

If you would take the time to answer these questions, it might clear up some confusion for those who read this thread.

By the way, thanks for clearing up what you meant by risers being helpful for speed.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 9:30:18 PM EST
I have a question about this topic.

Right now i'm using a RRA Dominator and an EOtech. I like the fact that the riser has the rear sight built into it, the only drawbacks are it's not quick detach and the sight picture is a bit more cluttered than if i had a folding BUIS. So i was thinking about picking up a Larue to try out.

What i'm wondering is, how does it detach to the rail? I know about the throw lever but it looks like there is a set screw or something on the front. Just wondering what that is for, and if you have to back it off to take the riser off the rail. I haven't gotten to put my hands on one of these yet, so if somebody could explain i'd appreciate it, thanks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2006 4:40:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Sorry, Joseph, but I'm not trying to sound smart. I'm trying to share information and clear up confusion. Politely.

Towards that end, since you don't like the format of my original post, I will post my questions again without the quotations:

Are you implying that the Aimpoint, unlike the Eotech, does not allow you to accurately aim with the dot anywhere in the optic's field of view? If this is a yes or no question, I will say yes. The aimpoint's field of view is much narrower and that automatically, right off the bat, requires you to acquire your usual "zeroed" if you will, cheek weld. It's not so easy to find the dot without doing so. I've owned both and I'm speaking from personal experience. I've found that with the aimpoint, you need to get your cheek on the stock to find the dot. I'm not saying the Aimpoint is slow, but when the Eotech is on a riser giving a 1/3rd lower cowitness like you get with good Aimpoint mounts, I find the Eotech to be quicker. My QRP with spacer gave me a lower 1/3 and it was not nearly as fast. It may have to do with the reticle, but we won't get into that debate. I've been trying to say that you need to get your face on or near the stock to make a good shot because that's where it needs to be to see the reticle centered in the hood. If you have it on a riser, that's farther from the stock you can be, right?

What point were you trying to make when you told texanmutt that "if you raise your head to get the reticle over the post, then you are changing your cheeckweld"? The statement itself is self-evident, therefore you must have been trying to convey something else. I may have been stating the obvious right before I tried to make another point, a segue perhaps?

Do you believe that when putting the dot above the irons, a riser eliminates the need to raise your head above the irons' cheekweld?Not sure what you are asking. I think you are asking about my comment of being able to still get the eotech's reticle on top of the front post, centered in the rear BUIS even when using a riser? There are too many different ways to use the Eotech. With the large hood and easy to acquire reticle, it's possible to take accurate shots as soon as you see the reticle in the top corner of the window and when you aren't close to getting a cheekweld.

What do you mean by "true cowitness", and how does it differ from any other cowitness? The term "true cowitness" is not one that I have seen in common usage. Sorry, I did mean absolute. I've got a medical condition where I sometimes use one instead of the other- I haven't been taking my medication. My mistake.

If you would take the time to answer these questions, it might clear up some confusion for those who read this thread.

By the way, thanks for clearing up what you meant by risers being helpful for speed.
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