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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/7/2006 4:04:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 4:50:16 PM EDT by tpc784]
What's the general opinion on the quality and workmanship of Model 1 Sales products (www.model1sales.com)? Thinking about picking up an A3 16" C.A.R. upper after seeing their ad in the latest issue of G&A's Book of the AR-15. The one I am considering breaks down as follows:

16" Chrome Moly Barrel, 1-9 twist, A2 Flashider...$300
Chrome line Chamber and Bore....additional $35
YHM FF 4 rail....$115
Total Price....$450 without shipping

The barrels are made by ER Shaw (?), and the other components are made by current government contractors. This is the best price I have seen while shopping around on the web, but would appreciate as much feedback from you guys as possible, before laying down the plastic with a company I am not familiar with.

Thanks
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:19:48 PM EDT
I have a Mod 1 upper on my AR and while it is not the greatest quality or prettiest. I haven't really had problems with it.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:52:55 PM EDT
What's your definition of "Not the greatest quality"?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:12:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tpc784:
What's your definition of "Not the greatest quality"?


If you have access to the search function, you'll find a LOT of thread on Model 1 Sales jsut in the last month.


They are a good bang for the buck, and I've not had any problems with the uppers I have bought from them.

Two common complaints seem to be:
1. They used to have worse quality in the past - as in a few years ago
2. Their lower parts kits are not always as good as other manufacturers (if you buy a compelte kit - obviously not an issue if you buy an upper)
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 5:35:46 PM EDT by ManiacRat461]
They aren't that bad. One of my three is a Model 1 Sales upper on a RRA lower. It's about on par with everything else. Their LPK's are very rough and I ended up not using it. They do work though. The bolts seem to be weak from what everybody says on here. However, mine has been trouble free for damn near a thousand rounds. Is accurate as an 11.5" bbl is gonna be. Here are some pictures of it. ETA: The only complaint I have out of mine is on the protective ears on each side of front sight post. One is thinner than the other. It is only a cosmetic thing and quit bugging me after 5 mins but it is the blemish/flaw that I have found as of yet.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:27:01 PM EDT
I have done a full Model 1 Dissipator Kit build on a MEGA lower, and previous to that a upper only from them. I have been happy with their products, and service.

No Expert
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:52:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 5:53:07 PM EDT by dabigbozman]

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:
They aren't that bad. One of my three is a Model 1 Sales upper on a RRA lower. It's about on par with everything else. Their LPK's are very rough and I ended up not using it. They do work though. The bolts seem to be weak from what everybody says on here. However, mine has been trouble free for damn near a thousand rounds. Is accurate as an 11.5" bbl is gonna be. Here are some pictures of it. ETA: The only complaint I have out of mine is on the protective ears on each side of front sight post. One is thinner than the other. It is only a cosmetic thing and quit bugging me after 5 mins but it is the blemish/flaw that I have found as of yet.
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped1.jpg
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped2.jpg



I have the exact same 11.5 + 5.5 upper, green and all! you're the first person I've seen post pics other than me
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:59:33 PM EDT
I built a rifle from their kit. Some minor cosmetic blemishes that went away with a CLP wipe down. The upper had some odd sand like substance in it that was tricky to clean out. The roll pin for the trigger guard was very tight, thought I was going to break the lower installing it. But, the rifle shoots great! About 6-700rds through it with no problems. I would buy another as the price was real nice.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:00:40 PM EDT
CMMG
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:08:28 PM EDT
I bought a bull barrel upper and various other parts from them and have been totally satisfied with their products and no problems at all.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:32:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
CMMG



No offense, but how is that even remotely a useful answer to the question he asked?


Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:45:28 PM EDT
I have bought a 20 varmint kit from them and very happy with it for the money. It is accurate and reliable with 2000+ rounds through it.

Like others have said the LPK is sub par. The roll pins are too large and there were some pretty major flaws in the hammer and the disconnector was worthless, it was cracked clear through and just holding on by a small piece about 1/4 from the end. I do have have few spare parts now though as I decided to go with the RRA LPK.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dabigbozman:

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:
They aren't that bad. One of my three is a Model 1 Sales upper on a RRA lower. It's about on par with everything else. Their LPK's are very rough and I ended up not using it. They do work though. The bolts seem to be weak from what everybody says on here. However, mine has been trouble free for damn near a thousand rounds. Is accurate as an 11.5" bbl is gonna be. Here are some pictures of it. ETA: The only complaint I have out of mine is on the protective ears on each side of front sight post. One is thinner than the other. It is only a cosmetic thing and quit bugging me after 5 mins but it is the blemish/flaw that I have found as of yet.
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped1.jpg
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped2.jpg



I have the exact same 11.5 + 5.5 upper, green and all! you're the first person I've seen post pics other than me



Yeah, those are real rare

Mine from a Model 1 Sales Kit
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:54:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
CMMG



No offense, but how is that even remotely a useful answer to the question he asked?





Buying from Model 1 has multiple risks and potential loss of time, effort, and money. Their reputation is spotty at best.

There are no such questions about CMMG. They can build any configuration Model 1 makes without any question about quality, and support of their product. That is pretty damn useful.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:54:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
CMMG



No offense, but how is that even remotely a useful answer to the question he asked?





Buying from Model 1 has multiple risks and potential loss of time, effort, and money. Their reputation is spotty at best.

There are no such questions about CMMG. They can build any configuration Model 1 makes without any question about quality, and support of their product. That is pretty damn useful.



A few years ago I would agree with you but I think M1S has their shit together now. Most everyone I talk to that does have one of their uppers are satisfied with it. Mine was perfect, no blemeshes, bad service, problems, or anything. Just fast service and a good product, that seems to be more of the norm dow days than the exception. I cant speak for the lower parts kits but their uppers are great I think.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:48:01 AM EDT
Out of the few I built with a few friends:

3 of them has had broken bolts within the first 1500 rounds(one at about 500).

sling holder flew off on one.

4 of them the bolt catch bent and had to be replaced.

Front sight post is not very sturdy or tight.



Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:54:55 AM EDT
I am only passing on info that was told to me.

I called Model 1 or M&A to ask about their chrome lined barrels.
They told me they use the same barrel and flash chrome them. He also said the chrome
will flake off.

I do know that when a barrel is chrome lined the proper way the barrel dimensions are made larger
to allow for a the space the chrome takes up in the bore.

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:01:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
CMMG



No offense, but how is that even remotely a useful answer to the question he asked?





Buying from Model 1 has multiple risks and potential loss of time, effort, and money. Their reputation is spotty at best.

There are no such questions about CMMG. They can build any configuration Model 1 makes without any question about quality, and support of their product. That is pretty damn useful.




Didn't mean to flame you - I was just a little confused. The simple "CMMG" response just seemed a little like someone saying "Mercedes" iwhen a person is asking for advice on whether to by a Honda Accord. Your explanation makes sense (and I agree that CMMG kicks ass, and woudl recommend them in a heartbeat), but the feeling I got from his question was about Model 1, partly because of the PRICE (which is the reason most people buy Model 1). I'm sure he is smart enough to figure for himself that if he buys something significantly more expensive, he might have some peace of mind. Again - not trying to attack you, I just wanted to understand.


Just for my personal curiosity, though ... do you own any Model 1 Uppers?
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:13:47 AM EDT
+1 CMMG Spend a little more now be glad you did later...
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:14:54 AM EDT
I do not own any Model 1 items anymore. I will say for the price J&T's kits seems pretty reliable(I built 1 for a friend with about 1k through it so far), might be an alternative.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:32:52 PM EDT
To answer the question, a good friend that I compete against, on a whim picked up a 16" upper fro them just for plinking. He took it to a local 3-Gun match and the thing ran like a champ (literally dropping it on a couple of days before the match and putting it through its first test there). It sold me.

It's a great option for a cheap and easy way to get another upper for practice/play, if you don't have the funds to build a complete rifle. I have 2 Rifle kits waiting for me when I get home and should keep me busy for a day or two, putting them together. I don't own safe queens, so these will be pushed hard.

For the dollars, you really can't go wrong. And, let's be honest, even the best manufacturer has a bad day, so don't trust anyone's opinion except your own experience.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:43:10 PM EDT
I purchased a Mod 1 barreled upper and it never would shoot cycle ,etc.I had a smith look at it and had the complete bolt assembly replaced with parts from Brownells.What junk.I dont want to deal with them anymore.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 8:19:59 PM EDT
hi all

Up until a few days ago, I would agree that Model 1 sales is pretty good, but last Tuesday my bolt broke on mw whlie shooting.

It took me foreveer to take apart my rifle and try to take out the stuck bolt everthing else was fine.

I will not buy from Model 1 sales anymore.

Tom
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 8:52:51 PM EDT
Model 1 sales are great.

There its been said.

Their bolts are not mpi tested so one or two here or there will fail. Thats life. However they have pretty good customer service and will normally help you out if somthing like this happens.

You must understand that they dont just build one or two every now and then to fill an order. They have racks of these things and people are always ordering them all the time.

They sell enough for a few to go south here and there but are normally good about makeing things right.

Also Del-Ton can take care of you for the same price + / - a few bux and their customer service is the best I've delt with. If you cant find what you want on their site just give them a call as they have a hell of a lot more than whats listed on their site.

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:27:59 PM EDT
I will say this, my overall experience with my upper purchase has been OK.

The ER Shaw bbl's are pretty accurate, only shot out to 100yds so I can't speak for anything else.

The finish was very good. Although the hand guards had quite a bit of play in it.

The upper receiver does not have M-4 cuts, not that big a deal with FMJ, but jams A LOT with JHP's. The local ranges do not allow FMJ so it IS an issue.

The bolt, carrier and lower parts kit I got were crapola! Out of spec trigger and hammer pins and like Timminator my bolt shattered at the cam pin with less than 1k rnds run through it.

The first time it was shot it, the gas key came loose and had a lot of short stroking and several hours of trouble shooting the problem before I found out the key was not staked properly. Talk about frustrating.

Would I buy another, yes probably, for a cheap blaster. I would only buy the upper though, no parts kit or BCG. But personally a no shit shooter can be had for only $100 more from CMMG or many other mfg's and you will be much happier to have all the better components.

Buy once, cry once.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:57:40 PM EDT
I got one of their M-4 kits for Christmas. I would have to agree with the other guys here that the Lower parts kit is Junk. nothing feels right, bolt catch to stiff, safety to loose.
The front sight post is crooked. Ive been playing with it for months and cannot get it straight. Removed sight post and barrel with no luck.

now Im looking at replacing it with a railed gas block and hoping I can get it straight enough to put a flip up front sight on it.

Model one sales is a gamble. this is my second one. The first one I bought was O.K. it was a 20" with freefloating handguard. Both the guns cycle just fine.

You may get a good one or you may not.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:54:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 9:55:38 AM EDT by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:
They aren't that bad. One of my three is a Model 1 Sales upper on a RRA lower. It's about on par with everything else. Their LPK's are very rough and I ended up not using it. They do work though. The bolts seem to be weak from what everybody says on here. However, mine has been trouble free for damn near a thousand rounds. Is accurate as an 11.5" bbl is gonna be. Here are some pictures of it. ETA: The only complaint I have out of mine is on the protective ears on each side of front sight post. One is thinner than the other. It is only a cosmetic thing and quit bugging me after 5 mins but it is the blemish/flaw that I have found as of yet.
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped1.jpg
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped2.jpg



I'll just throw this out to add to the discussion because I used to think that all my Bushmasters had one side thinner than the other concerning the protective ears of the front sight post... When I shoulder weak hand, the thinner post appears on the other side. It's actaully an optical dilusion in my case.

I've found that this happens as my head is off from center due to the stock being present, when I look at the sights holding the rifle in such a way that I can view straight down the centerline, both ears are equal. Perhaps this is what you're experiencing but, then again, perhaps one side on your Model 1 FSP is thinner. Might want to check it out to be sure.

I don't own Model 1 parts etc, but I just recently became aware of what I was actually seeing. It was bothersome to me.... But with an explaination it never crosses my mind anymore.

Sly
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:06:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:
They aren't that bad. One of my three is a Model 1 Sales upper on a RRA lower. It's about on par with everything else. Their LPK's are very rough and I ended up not using it. They do work though. The bolts seem to be weak from what everybody says on here. However, mine has been trouble free for damn near a thousand rounds. Is accurate as an 11.5" bbl is gonna be. Here are some pictures of it. ETA: The only complaint I have out of mine is on the protective ears on each side of front sight post. One is thinner than the other. It is only a cosmetic thing and quit bugging me after 5 mins but it is the blemish/flaw that I have found as of yet.
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped1.jpg
i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/ManiacRat461/xm177cropped2.jpg



I'll just throw this out to add to the discussion because I used to think that all my Bushmasters had one side thinner than the other concerning the protective ears of the front sight post... When I shoulder weak hand, the thinner post appears on the other side. It's actaully an optical dilusion in my case.

I've found that this happens as my head is off from center due to the stock being present, when I look at the sights holding the rifle in such a way that I can view straight down the centerline, both ears are equal. Perhaps this is what you're experiencing but, then again, perhaps one side on your Model 1 FSP is thinner. Might want to check it out to be sure.

I don't own Model 1 parts etc, but I just recently became aware of what I was actually seeing. It was bothersome to me.... But with an explaination it never crosses my mind anymore.

Sly



I don't think it's an optical illusion on mine. I have noticed that on my others when firing them. This one looks thin no matter how you look at it. Here is a picture for reference. It doesn't bother me that much.
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