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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/9/2004 3:24:20 PM EST
I'm starting a SBR project, and am having troubles picking out of the following. Troy Ind. MRF-C, Ameetech Predator P-4, or A.R.M.S SIR I wanted a continuous rail, but hear that theTroy is close enough to not cause any problems. For instance, mounting optics at any point along the rail.
I've always heard that the SIR is HEAVY, and of course $$$. Don't want a 10 pound SBR.
Contacted Ameetech, said they aren't sure about the weight of the piece, but that it was very light.
It is also a great price and looks a little different Does anyone have experience with one?
I've always liked the Troy rail, and have heard great things about them.
I just want to do it right the first time. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:37:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sparky357:
I've always liked the Troy rail, and have heard great things about them.



I believe, sir, you have just answered your own question.

I have an MRF-R. I am very happy with it. It is a little heavier than a rifle length KAC ff ras, or DD, or LaRue... BUT... none of those designs allow you to remove the lower portion for cleaning and oiling of the barrel.

The Arms SIR weighs more and it much more expensive, and the POF requires the barrel to be removed.

IMHO, the Troy is an excellent balance of: ease of installation, weight, ease of cleaning, and cost.

Buy whatever YOU like.

Have a good one.

Stainless
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:52:48 PM EST
Of the three, I'd pick Troy, but if given other options, I'd go with either DD or LaRue.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:26:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:03:32 PM EST
I find it humorous when the SIR gets dogged for weight. The whole unit can't weight more than a few ounces over stock carbine handguards do. It is NOT that heavy, but is STURDY as hell. To each their own, but it's SIR for me, just don't believe all you read. I believe barrel fluting removes as much weight as the SIR adds, and I see a hell of alot of non fluted barrels around here. Damn fat pigs of AR's The ONLY disadvantage to the SIR that is a reality that I have seen, is my model(45M) is a bit wide for those with girly hands, and if you want to put any type of laser on the 6 o'clock rail, it's a bit far from the barrel. IMO the SIR is first rate as is a few other of the choices mentioned.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:49:19 PM EST
I have the SIR #46C and it's lighter than my KAC RAS system. I prefer the SIR but also the KAC RAS for simple bulletproof designs. Both are good choices.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:01:13 PM EST
The SIR #50's systems are actally not as heavy as some others when you consider you can select to remove what rails you don't need. The bottom handguard is a polymer and lighter wt. than any alum. hand guards. The wt. of plasic hand guard panels to go over the the heated alum. of other rail systemsn so you don't get burned is not generally put into the wt. equasion by their sales promo's, and the SIR's don't require any panels at all.
The slim line SIR's, which is all of them, except the #45's, are easier to hold because they are not as wide as the others with their added required panels and added overall width. I'd say the #50-C bi-level is also the easiest of all rails systems to install. You don't ever have to worry about perfect alignment with the receiver, as the all the SIR's grab the receiver and the barrel nut, so thet are extra rugged an reliable, and in in service with a lot of SPEC-OPS where it counts, by the thousands. Barret, Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, sell them to their military customers installed, plus some civilian customers because the SIR's are top of the line equipment that don't have problems incured on some other aftermarket types. SIR's, KAC, and D.D. are the three best out there, IMHO, and our and other military's think so too.
Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:46:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:50:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
I have the SIR #46C and it's lighter than my KAC RAS system. I prefer the SIR but also the KAC RAS for simple bulletproof designs. Both are good choices.



to be fair, the KAC includes its own barrel nut IIRC, the SIR does not

Remman
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:52:54 PM EST


Anyway... just some random observations at a quarter to 2 in the morning... Go to bed, your too young to be up this late, or are you using a lap top under the covers with a flash light?
Jack
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:01:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Remman:

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
I have the SIR #46C and it's lighter than my KAC RAS system. I prefer the SIR but also the KAC RAS for simple bulletproof designs. Both are good choices.



to be fair, the KAC includes its own barrel nut IIRC, the SIR does not

Remman

Thats a good point, the SIR's let us use the standard barrel nut which is lighter and we don't have to take the barrel off. The SIR's use a steel half collar that connects the upper rail to the barrel nut, and that saves wt. too.
Jack
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:20:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 9:25:49 PM EST by Cato]
The cons of each system in my opinion. Both are free floating & easy to install, but there are other points to consider:

SIR: heavy (around 14oz. for the SIR alone), somewhat bulky due to a "rail on rail" approach (a rail mounted clicker switch flashlight may not work so well here), narrows your optic choice (Eotech will only work on the bi-level and only in the forward position, ACOG is raised higher, Aimpoint needs lower mount), expensive. Moreover with the issue of the TD foregrip not fitting, I would avoid a 400,- USD system which seemingly has its own rail specs. Never been issued (if that matters for you).

Troy: heavy (13oz. but delta ring will have to be removed), not 100% continous rail (ala URX) but good enough for most uses.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 1:53:42 AM EST
Given the options, I'd go Predator, I like mine, and I think a boxy little SBR would look bad ass. If I could pick out any system I'd go Larue without question. I just got a spr scope mount from them and I am astonished by the workmanship.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:58:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ridley:
I find it humorous when the SIR gets dogged for weight. The whole unit can't weight more than a few ounces over stock carbine handguards do.

Actually it weighs more than half a pound more than the stock hand guards.

It is NOT that heavy, but is STURDY as hell.

Its the heaviest rail system used by a large number of people on this board

To each their own, but it's SIR for me, just don't believe all you read.

Certainly not what you are typing.

I believe barrel fluting removes as much weight as the SIR adds, and I see a hell of alot of non fluted barrels around here.

No, silly iyou are wrong or the weight and you see a lot of people with M4 or Lightweight barrels here. What is usually advocated is a light weight (M4 or A1) type of profile AND a lightweight forearm.

Damn fat pigs of AR's

Yes we all rag on overly heavy forearms and HBARs round here.

The ONLY disadvantage to the SIR that is a reality that I have seen, is my model(45M) is a bit wide for those with girly hands, and if you want to put any type of laser on the 6 o'clock rail, it's a bit far from the barrel. IMO the SIR is first rate as is a few other of the choices mentioned.



Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:01:52 AM EST
Have you looked into the Knight's URX II, I believe Wes has them at MSTN.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:26:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:42:36 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Of the three, I'd pick Troy, but if given other options, I'd go with either DD or LaRue.



What do you like better about the DD and La Rue over the Troy system?

Nevermind, I just found your other thread where you installed the MRF-C. Great info. Thanks Mongo.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:26:54 AM EST

(Eotech will only work on the bi-level and only in the forward position, ACOG is raised higher, Aimpoint needs lower mount), expensive


uhhh, why is that? My eotech works just fine on my 45M. Is it co witnessed? No, but I PREFER my 1moa dot to not have the FSP blocking any of my immediate view around the fine dot. Kind of ruins the whole concept of fine shooting with the eotech IMO.(unless you have a flipper FS) I use my rifle to plink groundhogs and the like, and if I'm aiming at his little noggin, I want to see if he ducks down, and not have all the action happen behind the front sight post. Just my .02 In fact, I had considered mounting the Eotech on the arms #19 mount to raise it even more and to give me QD capabilities if the irons are ever needed in a hurry.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:34:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Of the three, I'd pick Troy, but if given other options, I'd go with either DD or LaRue.



What do you like better about the DD and La Rue over the Troy system?



MUCH less weight, front rail is same height as reciever, can use KAC rail panels, etc.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 8:46:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ridley:
uhhh, why is that? My eotech works just fine on my 45M. Is it co witnessed? No, but I PREFER my 1moa dot to not have the FSP blocking any of my immediate view around the fine dot. Kind of ruins the whole concept of fine shooting with the eotech

If you kept both eyes open like you're supposed to when shooting with a red dot then the front sight post wouldn't be blocking any of the view. Closing one eye kind of ruins the whole concept of using a red dot in the first place.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:24:39 AM EST
carbine's should have fixed front sight post
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:44:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:48:13 PM EST
Arms SIR 45M
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 1:07:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 1:11:21 PM EST

If you kept both eyes open like you're supposed to when shooting with a red dot then the front sight post wouldn't be blocking any of the view. Closing one eye kind of ruins the whole concept of using a red dot in the first place


Well, thats all fine and dandy, but when placing long range precision shots, I find everything focuses better when I close my left eye. Two eyes open is great for CQB, and quick snap shots, but for ME PERSONALLY, longe range will always be the old fashioned tried and true method. It may not be YOUR preference, but it works great for me. I'd put my marksmanship up against almost anybody.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 1:42:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 1:53:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 4:55:57 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
<Personal attack removed.>
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:58:39 PM EST
Damn Ridley, I think you just took the title of biggest asshole on AR15.com away from me...

At least my excuse is posting while drunk. Whats yours?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:25:43 PM EST
And this thread is off an a tangent........................................

Rail system threads seem to do this now and then.......................and 3rdtk posted on this one also, but he didn't ruin it like he normally does.

Oh, well, IBTL.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:45:05 PM EST
I apologise for being a dick, and for screwing up this thread. I know I'm an ass sometimes, just the way I am, but it's rarely uncalled for.

Shivan just posted to piss me off, and had he not gotten shredded by me on another post, he would not have said anything at all. I guess it's now his life goal to try to discredit me in some strange way. And he's a moderator, go figure, lol. I promose to not stoop to his level anymore, lol.

For the rail system question, they are all more versatile than standard handguards or free float tubes. I only have experience with a couple, with the SIR far and away my favorite. I think the big name railed forends are all pretty comparable, I say choose the one you think loooks best as they all get the job done. I like the looks of the sir, I like my eotech to sit a little higher than the fsp, I have rather large hands, and I carried a 12 lb pellet rifle for miles when I was 10 years old, and I'll soon have an m900 on the bottom rail so the SIR fits me perfect. It may totally suck for others and I completely understand. Just like there's some eotech haters. Hell, I hated it at first too, took me awhile to get used to. But now, it gets rotated from the AR to the duck gun on a regular basis. Just simply the best sight I've ever seen for dual duty work like that. I figure if I can hit a duck flying at 50 mph at 60 yards, i sure as hell can hit a shivan, I mean a human , running at 15.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:40:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:26:31 PM EST by cgv69]

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Of the three, I'd pick Troy, but if given other options, I'd go with either DD or LaRue.



What do you like better about the DD and La Rue over the Troy system?

Nevermind, I just found your other thread where you installed the MRF-C. Great info. Thanks Mongo.



Can you point me to that thread? I've recently become interested in the MRF-C and would like to read how it compares to the DD 7.0. Thanks - Never mind, found it. (HERE). Thanks
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:41:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 4:57:14 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:47:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:00:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 6:26:23 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:31:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:53:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:
I have the SIR #46C and it's lighter than my KAC RAS system. I prefer the SIR but also the KAC RAS for simple bulletproof designs. Both are good choices.



Check this thread:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=172238

There is no way the #46C is lighter than the RAS. It may FEEL lighter because the SIR distributes its weight along the entire length of the gun instead of hanging it all out in front of the barrel; but in terms of actual weight, the lightest SIR is still 5-6 ounces heavier than a RAS.

However, that brings up a good point, A 18oz rail system that has 8oz of its weight over the upper receiver may handle a lot better than a 11oz rail system that has all 11oz forward of the barrel nut.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:02:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 11:05:01 AM EST by Remman]

Originally Posted By 3rdtk:

Anyway... just some random observations at a quarter to 2 in the morning... Go to bed, your too young to be up this late, or are you using a lap top under the covers with a flash light?
Jack





Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:27:53 AM EST
Just weighed my new Troy MRF-CX on the postal scale.

It is 13.5 oz. on the nose.

Very nice finish and machine work.

The extended side rails should make adding a light easier.

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:14:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 6:19:22 PM EST by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 2:41:48 PM EST
look at the olympic arms firsh system. I have this handguard system on my ar15 and it is extremely light and durable. They also have a very nice qualty finish and a good price. this system also has the continuous rail.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:19:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:54:40 PM EST
The FIRSH almost has a continuos rail. It lines up, but you have a long space without a milled cut where the reciever and FIRSH meet.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:12:41 PM EST
The are only three continuous rail systems that are realy one continuous rail that works, KAC URX, SIR, and LMT monolithic.
Jack
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:18:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:35:59 PM EST
You can mount things there it just is missing a notch but mounts can bridge the gap. You forgot the Predator rail.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:50:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:06:08 AM EST
The SIR, Predator and CAS-V continuous rails also raise the overall rail height by about 1/2". The URX and LMT/MRP do not!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:58:24 AM EST
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