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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/31/2005 11:27:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 11:40:12 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
I have dabbled with the notion of buying a Remington Model 7 or a Ruger Mark II Compact now for some time. Uses would be numerous, but the primary use would be as a do-all kind of gun for around the farm and to toss in the vehicle when going on trips. I may be doing more travel in the near future and it would be nice to have some sort of rifle to take along when I'm going to places that might frown upon AR's, for example. Again, it may find itself employed against coyote, deer or possibly even two-legged critters should I find myself in a bad situation. So it would very much be a general use sort of gun. The gun will likely get topped with a good quality 2-7 power scope and be a stainless model with a sythetic stock.

With that in mind, I am trying to decide what would be the best caliber to choose. I want something that has some power and punch, but because it will be a small rifle, I don't want something with punishing recoil either. So short magnums and even the 308 is out of the question for these compact lightweights. That pretty much leaves the .223, .243, .260 Rem, and 7mm-08.

I like all of those calibers to a degree. But it seems the twist rate in the Ruger .223 is 1:12, which rules out the heavier match bullets I like. I don't know about the Remington, but assume it has a similar twist rate. So that pretty much rules out .223 altogether.

That leaves me leaning toward the .260 Rem. This caliber has good ballistics, yet the recoil is very manageable, even from a compact rifle. I have some load data that I could use to drive 100 gr Nosler Partitions and Nosler Ballstic Tips to the 3000 fps range, even from these shorter 16.5" and 20" barrels using IMR 4064. The advantage of handloads would also allow me to tailor my ammo to my needs, creating a fragmenting load and a deep penetrating load that shoots to the same POI.

So, what do you folks think? Would the .260 Rem be a good caliber for a compact bolt gun project geared toward general purposes?

PS.....I apologize for posting a non-223 ammo question in this forum, but it seems this is by far the best place here to ask.

Thanks,

-CH
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:20:30 AM EDT
Of what you listed I would go with the Remington in .260. I've had poor luck with Ruger bolt guns. I have had a Remington 660 for years in .308 to fill this need and with a Pachmyer Decelarator recoil pad recoil is acceptable. The 308 allows the use of heavy bullets and I spend time in bear country.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:57:57 AM EDT
If there are functional reasons for ruling the rifle out then by all means do so, but "folks frown on my choice of rifles" seems like the copout of a lemming. If you like the AR-15 (or other such ahem, "military style" rifle) and it works for you, then you shouldn't care what folks think. Bumping into someone with one might start a conversation and after you let them handle it, even shoot it you have opened our door to another fan/supporter of our pasttime. On the other hand the old coots already set in their ways are just as busy making fun of your pants, so fuck 'em.

Consider the Ruger mini 14. with its wood-stocked sportsman style profile it seems like a less-conspicuous choice than it's stainless steel cousin with pistol grip and folding stock, but they both do the same job, and they both do it in a poorer fashion than a quality AR-15. The best tool for the job should be the way to go about it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:04:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 5:08:58 AM EDT
Well, it's not altogether a matter of being PC. In some places, non preban AR's are simply illegal. For my immediate area, AR's are fine and I have no issue using one for whatever purpose I like here.

But for those other areas, I'd rather have a less than ideal rifle than none at all. With the proper ammo (bonded bullets), the .260 Rem or 7mm-08 could also give better penetration against barriers than most .223 loads, while Nosler ballistic tips would offer good framentation/rapid expansion.

Again, this gun would not just be for SHTF situations. It would get more use as a general purpose hiking/truck gun than anything else, with the above mentioned ability playing a rather small role, though still one it might be called upon to do. I have a rather large piece of rural property, so the idea of a nice, lightweight and compact rifle to take with me when I'm out and about is a nice one. And if it can go with me to areas on trips where an AR can't legally go, then so much the better.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:48:11 PM EDT
I've shot the rem model 7 in .243 win, .260, and 7-08. I have a 7-08 and it's probably on the mild side and that balances well with that particular rifle.

I also have a Rem 700 titanium in .308 that is even lighter than the model 7. It shoves pretty good but is tolerable.

I like the older model 7's better w/ the shorter barrel.
Another good choice would be a remington mtn rifle in any of the above. they have a removable magazine for quick loads for what that's worth.

If you're on foot in in open country and you want a bolt gun, i'd get a mountain rifle.\
If you're gonna have it as a truck gun, go with the short one.

As far as rugers go, count on paying someone to fix the trigger to a tolerable level.

Good luck
The weasel
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:32:42 AM EDT
The .260 will be a good choice. I'm longing for a Rem Model 7 in 6.8 SPC. Another option would be either a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94 in 30-30 for a short, handy rifle.

CD
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:59:54 AM EDT
I would pass on the .260 just because factory ammo can be so hard to find. The 7mm-08 is fairly low recoil and I find it much easier to locate ammo for it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:25:12 AM EDT
Since you said bolt gun then 260 Rem or 7-08. Unless your going to take some long shots I would go with a lever gun Marlin or Winchester 30/30 or 35 Rem. They are pretty light, I had a 336 Marlin with see through mounts an a 4x scope.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:25:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 6:27:36 AM EDT by Essayons]
If you go .223, you might look at the CZ-527. It's a damned nice little rifle, and CZ maked good firearms for the money. There is a 6.8SPC article online somewhere that used a CZ-527 action and a Mike Rock barrel as the test bed. A CZ-527 in 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel might be a nice option, but it's not an "off the shelf" kind of thing and ammo isn't available at Walmart.



CZ-527

In my neck of the woods, I'd go with the 7mm-08 or .243 for your purposes (can't hunt with .223 here anyway, IIRC). 7mm-08 or .243 would reliably kill most game in WA except elk and larger bears.

This will be controversial, but you might also look at a CZ-527 carbine in 7.62x39. There are a few hunting loads out there by Remington, Cor-Bon, Lapua (hard to find), etc. and you could also reload. Leaving aside the traditional 7.62x39 = 30-30 argument, 7.62x39 has killed a lot of people and game in Eurasia and Africa. Used responsibly, it should suffice for all but the largest deer at reasonable ranges.

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