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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2005 9:05:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 9:10:49 PM EDT by eric10mm]
Tritium powered night sights from companies like Trijicon, Meprolight, XS, etc. I have them on all of my defensive pistols and would never dream of having a defensive gun without them. IMO, they are indespensible.

Anyway, reagrding night sights for AR-pattern rifles, which brand do you like for your iron sights? Why? What'd you spend on them? Where'd you get them? How long have you had them? Do you like them? And what or whose sights are they in (Troy, MI, DPMS, etc)?

As usual, thanks in advance.

Eric
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:17:50 AM EDT
I have NS on all my pistols because they are my primary sights. They are only backup on an AR. Id use an illuminated optic and not waste money on night sights. Aiming with NS is totally different than aiming with NS at any kind of range and, I think, counter productive. If its close range only and iron sight only carbine Id say an Ashley front sight and Trijicon rear. Even then they are not that useful as I have a flashlight to identify my target which makes regular irons work fine and the NS redundant. I dont have a flash light on my CC handgun and dont have an illuminated optic on my full size handguns so they all have NS.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:11:36 AM EDT
I can't speak from experience, yet. I'm ordering a plain (no ns dots) "same plane" XS rear sight and a
Tritium XS front post. The guy I'm buying the rear sight from told me that the rear dots on his AR night sights were just a blur. This makes sense if you think about the difference in eye relief between handgun and rifle sights. Anyway, I figure nights certainly could'nt hurt. I also like at least a front night sight on my pistols. Considering what the last poster said ref. his set-up, night sights could just be considered redundant. I also prefer some sort of light. Wish I could be of more help. Ray
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:59:54 PM EDT
What? Nobody around here has night sights on their rifles?

All these "tactical" types running around here and nobody ever gets caught in the dark? How nice that must be.

Eric
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:23:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 11:25:59 PM EDT by DevL]
As I said I ran NS on my weapon but you dont need them if you have an illuminated optic and weapon light.

The rears are the only way to aim your rifle if you have NS. THe rears beome two overlapping globes. It looks like a Mastercard symbol. However the amount of overlap depends on your head position so NTCH hold is needed to keep that consistant. Then you have a glowing ball as a front sight. So now you have three overlapping, glowing balls and need to find out where the intersections put your bullets. Since everyones head position is slightly different and the front/rear sights of various manufacturers are slightly different it is a differnt sight picture for every person and every rifle. This in no way coincides with your regular sight picture like it does with handguns. It takes significant time to learn the correct sight picture and requires practice to stay proficient with their use.

AGAIN

I suggest you use an illuminated optic and embrace the 21st century. The sight picture is the same for the daytime as it is for night. No need to relearn a more difficult sighting system just to shoot at night. Leave the irons as the back ups they should be. Please take my experince to heart and do not dismiss it so readily. Shooting with NS is HARD. Why make life hard? If you dont need accuracy get a front sight only and your good at across the room distances. Try it at 50 yards and you wont be able to hit anything.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:46:26 PM EDT
i use aimpoints and acogs

d­o not feel the need to get the front sight post w/ tritium, would rather use that money to buy lots of ammo and/or quality mags
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:03:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
As I said I ran NS on my weapon but you dont need them if you have an illuminated optic and weapon light.

The rears are the only way to aim your rifle if you have NS. THe rears beome two overlapping globes. It looks like a Mastercard symbol. However the amount of overlap depends on your head position so NTCH hold is needed to keep that consistant. Then you have a glowing ball as a front sight. So now you have three overlapping, glowing balls and need to find out where the intersections put your bullets. Since everyones head position is slightly different and the front/rear sights of various manufacturers are slightly different it is a differnt sight picture for every person and every rifle. This in no way coincides with your regular sight picture like it does with handguns. It takes significant time to learn the correct sight picture and requires practice to stay proficient with their use.

AGAIN

I suggest you use an illuminated optic and embrace the 21st century. The sight picture is the same for the daytime as it is for night. No need to relearn a more difficult sighting system just to shoot at night. Leave the irons as the back ups they should be. Please take my experince to heart and do not dismiss it so readily. Shooting with NS is HARD. Why make life hard? If you dont need accuracy get a front sight only and your good at across the room distances. Try it at 50 yards and you wont be able to hit anything.


Devl, I personally don't mind practicing with my equipment. I won't be using an illuminated optic. I will be using iron sights and will attach a surefire 6p soon. As far as not using a rear night sight, I guess I'll find out for myself. I would imagine consistent cheek-weld would allow me to peep thru my rear sight. I will have access to a night range (soon, I hope) and I'll give it a shot. I'll be ordering a XS post front.
Not to be insulting, but repitition of ones opinion does not make it any more convincing. With the popularity of illuminated reticle type sights there are probably not many here that use night sights, but that can probably be said for iron sights in general. Ray
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 4:36:39 AM EDT
Eric, Have you made a decision on what night sights you'll use ? If I can find a Trijicon rear sight only I may try it. I prefer the post front type and Trijicon only sell the dot front. Not much input from the gear-geeks here. Ray
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:22:43 AM EDT
I'd like to keep this topic ongoing. Of the thousands of AR enthusiasts who post here, there must be others who have some experience with night sights. If your irons truly are a back-up to an electronic
sight, night sights would surely provide an advantage. Ray
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:00:16 PM EDT
Nights sights on an AR are a waste of money. Especially the rear.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:01:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ferretray:
Eric, Have you made a decision on what night sights you'll use ? If I can find a Trijicon rear sight only I may try it. I prefer the post front type and Trijicon only sell the dot front. Not much input from the gear-geeks here. Ray



Bushmaster sells the trijicon front and rear sights seperately.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
Nights sights on an AR are a waste of money. Especially the rear.


YELLOWV, I appreciate the info. ref. Bushmaster. Care to elaborate on your statement about the night sights ? Ray
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:21:34 PM EDT
Night sights are a waste on an AR. Especially the rear one. You look right through it so it will either be a blur or you wont see it at all. As for the front it's not too bad but a dot sight and weapon light are MUCH better.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:24:12 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:09:17 PM EDT
i agree w/ the idea that the rear site washes out.

however there are possibilities that you may not be able/willing to use a white light and you are able to id your target and need that extra precision.
it is a hassle and time consuming to go back and forth from front to back w/ your focus.

i don't agree that they are a total waste of money.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:47:33 PM EDT
My Experiences match those with YELLOWV. I had a full set of front/rear trijicon NS's for my AR (This was in My Pre-Aimpoint days) Your eye is so close to the rear Aperture that they are just a Blurry Glow. I left the Front sight on and replaced the fixed Carry handle with a flat top upper and an ARMs 40 and an Aimpoint and never looked back.

If you don't have or want a red dot sight, save yourself the$75 on Tritium Sights. Go buy a G-2 or 6P Surefire and a Shock bezel and tail switch and put a weapon light on your rifle. Better tool...Just my $.02
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 7:53:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ferretray:
I'd like to keep this topic ongoing. Of the thousands of AR enthusiasts who post here, there must be others who have some experience with night sights. If your irons truly are a back-up to an electronic
sight, night sights would surely provide an advantage. Ray



As has been said, you have two different aiming points to get used to with night sights (Trijicon, at least).

1) The tip of the FSP.

2) The tritium dot, which is a few mm down from the tip of the FSP.

Different points of aim, different points of impact. If you sight in on one, the other will be off. And if you sight in on the tritium dot, you severely impact your ability to take distance shots. If you are building a purely CQB carbine, they may not be bad, but other than that, they are not worth it.

I have the Trijicon set. They do make it easy to use your irons in low-light situations. The rears do wash out, but it doesn't matter; they help you find the rear sights in low light. But I don't use my set, just for the reason I listed above: Different points of impact. Makes them difficult to use across varying distances.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 9:20:51 PM EDT
I installed a set of Trijicon AR Night Sights some time before acquiring a light and optics and they did increase my speed and accuracy in poor light shooting. (I do mostly close in run-and-gun games, in the light and dark, with an eye toward whether my gear would work for HD.) The Trijicon front sight post is wider than the original, which makes longer shots and sighting-in more difficult. Over time I found that anytime it was dark enough for the rear tritium to be a factor it was dark enough that they were overpowering and harmed my night vision and also in that level of darkness I was only able to identify targets close enough that a cheek weld plus the front sight were good enough. Tritium in the front sight only for long guns was also recommended to me by a local instructor. I find that the night sights, front or both, are not a problem for me when using a light or optics or both.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:44:33 AM EDT
For you folk's that posted about trying the front night sights: Did you practice enough at medium distance to get proficient with them ? Say, up to 200 yards or so ? I have about 500 rounds of ammo right now and will be sighting in with the front night sight installed, during daylight. I'll try to get as much time and ammo in night shooting as possible. Of course the tritium post is below the top of the front sight, so "Kentucky Windage" may be my way of dealing with the difference. Ray
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 6:19:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 6:23:30 AM EDT by eric10mm]
Thanks for the useful replies, guys.

I kinda wondered how useful the rear tritium sights would be since a good, consistent cheekweld would go a long way towards having your eye "in the right place", which would indeed be very close to the rear ghost ring. "Nose to the CH" I always say with an AR-pattern rifle.

I also wondered about the difference in aiming points due to the tritium dots being lower than the top of the front sight post. I have no illusions about shooting, and hitting, things in the dark at anywhere near 200yds. I was thinking more like in an urban environment with shot ranges not usually to exceed 75yds or so. Within those parameters I fully believe that tritium night sights are very useable.

To those who say "get a dot", I have but two questions. First, what are your plans when your dot sight fails? And second, what if it fails in the dark?

I have trouble bringing myself to dangle all that addorted stuff off of the front of my gun like so many of the "tactical" types around here like to do. Flashlights, lasers, rails onto which to mount all that stuff, etc. It goes against my nature and better sense to hang all that heavy stuff on the nose of the gun instead of becoming proficient with the weapon in as close to the original design as possible, which is light and trim, since that design is well proven to work. Also, flashlights REALLY give away your position, which is not something I care to do when the SHTF. To that end, I asked about tritium night sights as they would add no weight whatsoever to the gun nor would they give away my position.

If I wanted to carry around a heavy gun I'd grab one of my .308s.

That said, I prefer a dot to a vertical line, and the XS looks like it positions the dot very high up on the post. This should allow one to continue to position the intended target on top of the FSP instead of having to guess how much space to leave between the dot and the target. I only wish it had squared shoulders like a normal FSP.

So, I guess I shall try the the XS "dot" front sight post.

Eric
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 7:25:25 AM EDT
originally from Eric10mm



I have trouble bringing myself to dangle all that addorted stuff off of the front of my gun like so many of the "tactical" types around here like to do. Flashlights, lasers, rails onto which to mount all that stuff, etc. It goes against my nature and better sense to hang all that heavy stuff on the nose of the gun instead of becoming proficient with the weapon in as close to the original design as possible, which is light and trim, since that design is well proven to work. Also, flashlights REALLY give away your position, which is not something I care to do when the SHTF. To that end, I asked about tritium night sights as they would add no weight whatsoever to the gun nor would they give away my position.




I can't Imagine a scenario where you would need to shoot at 75M at Night in a defensive situation. As to being "Tactical" I suppose I would fit in this category. Look at it from this viewpoint. The US Army is using Thousands of M68CCO Aimpoints as the primary sighting system for Day and Night. I never saw a set of tritum issued irons (I know their out in the supply system, just not that many) in all my years in.

The combat proven Aimpoint has been tested and proven to be an excellent system with the new units having ridiculous run time.

I also think you are totaly misinformed on the use of a Weapon light on a Carbine. Notice how many of them are on Issued Military weapons. it is becoming almost mandatory to run a light as it is an excellent tool. You just don't run around with one turned on all the time. Like any tool, it requires know how and training.

How do you think your going to Identify a potential threat with Night sighs at 50yds???

You shoot anything at that distance at night and your gonna have some serious explaining to do!!!

You have received excellent advice but are still convincing yourself that NS Irons are the way to go.
My advice would be get some training and then you'll have a better understanding of what you need and what works.
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