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5/28/2020 10:18:12 PM
Posted: 1/2/2003 7:12:09 PM EDT
hello, i have read on these boards quite a bit here lately.  I am joining the army and ship out in June.  I would like to get an AR-15 before I go so I can kinda practice it with it before I get to basic.  Maybe i'll score expert on the range and get to go to sniper school. :-P

Anyways.  I need to know which AR is closest to the Military's M16 A2.  I know it needs to be 20 inch.  I don't care about the flash hider or the bayonet lug.  I was considering the Bushmaster XM15 A2.  I can only spend around 700 bux.  Maybe a lil more.  I am not looking for EXTREME accuracy or anything fancy.  Just what the army has.  No better, no less.

By the way, are there any cheaper models that are good that I could go with?  I know a guy that has an Olympic Arms for like $560. Are the oly's that good? I am going to a gun show this weekend.  I will look there.  I would also like to be able to take the gun down like the military does and put it back together.  Or do they ALL do that anyways the same way?  Thanks for all the help.  I appreciate it.

side note: I also have a savage 110FP that shoots .223 that I use reloads in.  Can I use those reloads in the AR-15?  Thanks again
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 7:40:04 PM EDT
Using your reloads for a Savage in an A2 type should not be a problem.

Your basic Bushmaster is often manufactured on Colt parts (its an easy matter to stamp a pony or a snake on any given piece of metal).  This should be close to the military issue rifle.

On the other hand, for about the same price, you might look into getting a Rock River Arms A2 version.  It is almost what you say you are looking for, but it has a few enhancements:

(1) It is very well put together; RRA's quality is as good as it gets.

(2) It has a better trigger than the standard A2.

(3) It is chambered for .223 Wylde (and will shoot milspec .223 ammo).

I just don't think you should sell yourself short.  After the military career is over, the rifle will still be there.  You might as well have a good one.

For references to this rifle, see:  http://www.rockriverarms.com/standard_a2.htm

For a short discussion on the Wylde, see:
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 7:41:43 PM EDT
Basically all AR's take down like a military M16.  The only difference is the sear only fires semi auto and doesn't have the three round burst postion your issued M16 will.  

Bushmaster  and Armalite are the only ones that chrome lines the bore and chamber standard (Colt chrome lines the bore and chamber on their government series and only lines the chamber on the others.  This is just like the M16 has.  The Armalite is a little bit more expensive than a Bushy.  that being said, the Bushmaster will do everything the Armalite will and is just as good.  

Olympic is good, but the Bushmaster is slightly better with the chrome lining standard.  The only Oly I know of that is less than $600 is the plinker, which only has a 16" barrel.  The 20' will cost around $600 to $700.  For about the smae price, go with the Bushmaster.  

Rock River Arms is also a great company and on par with Bushmaster.  the only problem is they only line the bores of the m4 barrels.

All AR's also use the same parts.  the only exception is Colts will either use a larger front pivot pin in the receiver or larger pins for the trigger assembly.

Rock River and Bushmaster are both high in quality and reasonable in price.  I think that would be the best way to go for your purposes.  The Bushmaster's chrome lining will make it easier to clean, so that may be something you want to consider. Either way, it will help give you a heads up with your issued rifle before Basic.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 7:47:49 PM EDT
The trigger on a 20" Rock river is better than the Bushmaster, however it is a two stae trigger.   The M16 will use a single stage.  The RRA can be built with a single stage, but that confiduration may not be immediately available.  

The .223 Wylde chamber is more accurate than the standard 5.56mm NATO chamber.  However, the M16 uses the 5.56mm chamber.  Theoretically the Wylde willl give you beter shot groups than the standard military chamber.  

However, you said you wanted a standard rifle, no better no worse than what will be issued.  So you might want to keep things simple.

You might also consider a flattop version.  the sights are slightly different in how much you can adjust them.  The thing is in Basic you will probably be issued a standard A2.  However, most frontline units are getting issued A4 models with the flattop.  That may be a dilemma.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 7:58:05 PM EDT
Armalite M15A2 without the muzzle brake.

Bushmaster is also there, my preference is the lifetime warranty from a company that is absolutely the best in customer service.

Link Posted: 1/2/2003 8:58:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 9:01:14 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Order a Bushmaster with the "Government" weight barrel that matches the profile of the M16A2.  Everything else is going to be a heavy barrel.  Same mil-spec push pin reciever.  If you dont care about similar handling qualities in terms of weight, then all the other brands mentioned will work.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 3:22:59 AM EDT
I commend you for joining the military.  I joined the Army back in 1965 and never have regreted the expierences.

Sniper School?  If I'm not mistaken I believe they are using bolt action rifles.  Besides an AR then you would need to get a Remington 700 VS in .308 if that is your main goal.

And yes, the Marines have excellent Sniper Schools also.

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:10:05 AM EDT
Thank you guys sooooooo very much for all the info.  I think I am probably going to go with a Bushmaster. It sounds the most like the Armys.

 I know what you mean about the sniper school thing and using the Remingtons and stuff.  It is just that first, I think you have to score Expert on the shooting range to even qualify FOR sniper school.  Once you do that, then you get accepted.  Then you get to use a remington.

Thank you guys soo much for the info.  It has helped a great deal.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:18:16 AM EDT
If you want to go to Sniper School - you might want to get the A3 model, with flattop and removeable handle. Gives you more options. Plus, my A3 20" Bushmaster shoots better than I can hold.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 7:40:00 AM EDT
[blue]Somethings to remember....

The military will want to teach you to fire the M16A2 the military way.  If you begin to add your own bad habits, picked up shooting prior to entering the military, you may find yourself doing the push-up!! [:(]

You'll spend so much time with the damn rifle it'll haunt you in your dreams.  Carry it, clean it, shoot it, clean it, carry it, carry it some more, clean it, carry it, shoot it, clean it, carry it, clean it, clean it, clean it.......

Its no wonder that they last forever.  We took them into the shower and held them in hot water to get sand out.  We used shaving cream, tooth brushs, q-tips, towels, toilet paper and whatever else would work to get the garbage otu of them.

During boot camp the upper and lower on my M16A1 were so sloppy that I could actually look between the two!

The training will seem very, very, very simple.  But look around and you'll find someone having problems with it.  These folks will occupy a lot of the drill instructors time.  These folks will master the push-up!

Eventually someone with end up playing the serial number game.  The serial number of an M16A2 might be ABC654321.  When someone makes a mistake the Drill Sergeant first checks his note book to make sure the recruit is not a repeat offender.  If not they begin with the last digit of the serial number.  In the example ABC654321, it would be the number 1.  One push-up for his mistake.  Recruits name goes in the book.  2nd mistake will cost the recruit 21 push-ups.  3rd mistake 321 push-ups. 4th mistake 4321 push-ups and etc.  

Usually after four mistakes in this game the recruit does have time to make more mistakes.  Everytime the recruit stops he automatically does the push-up.  4321 is one hell of a deficit.  

At this point you hope that the "recruit" is getting the message.  If not the Drill Sergeant will change tactics.  Watch the movie "full metal jack."  The Drill Sergeant will begin to punish the platoon for the mistakes of the "recruit."  Trust me this won't last long.

Sorry lost track there for a minute...

Lots of time on sight picture or alignment, trigger pull or trigger squeeze, control of breathing, computer simulations and after what feels like an eternity qualification.

Qualification will be in the rain.  Cold wet rain and sand.  Every military base everywhere has sand on its ranges.  Cold wet nasty grainy sand.  In everything you own including the rifle.  Don't ask me how it got in there but its there.

As long as you shoot the way you have been instructed and have a little luck you can shoot expert.  If your in an infantry MOS, like 11b (infantry soldier), they may have a sniper slot available.  These slots are usually held for an E4 or E5 because of the time in the military.  But keep your nose clean and your in.

At this point throw all of your M16A2 out the window and start from scratch.  Sniper weapons are bolt action.  And I don't know anymore about sniper school because I was a medic.

Good luck.  I heard a military chaplain quote "a tour of duty is the million dollar experience that he wouldn't pay a dime to do over again."

As far as AR15's I've only ever owned Colts.  Liked them so much that I purchased an M16![/blue]

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 3:48:04 PM EDT
Thanks again for the info about basic and the service.  I signed up as an Airborne Ranger.  So hopefully I'll make it through everything okay.  Yes i know... It is no walk in the park. lol.  I have been reading about it for around 2 years so I do know what I am getting my self into.  The mind is a powerful thing, your body just has to keep up.

I know what you are saying about the bad habits.  I just want an Ar-15. :-P  Plus it would be nice to get a little more familiar with it before everyone else.  I also want to have some fun before I leave.

Yeah, I do know that snipers use bolt actions.  I kinda prefer them over Semi-autos.  They seem to be more accurate, dependable, and less jaming.  That is why I got My savage 110FP .223 before the actual AR-15.

Thanks a million for the info!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:17:01 PM EDT
i own a bushy 20" post ban.  the only thing i would change is getting a flash hidder.  thats my one regret about buying it.  but thats ok i LOVE my bushy still.  i would take it over anything else anyday!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 4:27:21 PM EDT
You have chosen a terrific path.[:)]

Advice #1: ARMALITE

Advice #2: Do as you're told and keep your pie-hole shut in boot.

Advice #3: Do not violate your integrity.

Advice #4: Come home safe.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:24:20 PM EDT
A bushmaster is closest to an M16A2, especially in a preban 20" A2 config, but they are expensive so a postban would be a great choice because all you lose is the bayo-lug and the Flash Suppressor and you can put a compensator if you want the FS look plus it helps when practicing rifle drill when going from order arms up to port arms or order arms to another movement. Good luck in boot camp, you will certainly be in for a rude awakening once you get there, but it's nothing you can't handle.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 6:29:53 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info again.  And thanks for the luck at boot camp.  I go to the gunshow tommarow.  I think I'll end up with the Bushmaster.  I will let you all know when I get home tommarow! I AM SOOO PUMPED!! HOAH!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 10:20:36 AM EDT
well.... I JUST got back from the gunshow.  I picked up a Bushmaster.  20 inch.  It says e2 or something.  The carrying handel IS removable.  Then I got 2 extra mags.  They are israli Orelite mags.

The gun itself was $699.  Slightly used.  I could hardly see it.  I thought it was a good deal.  With the gun, 2 extra mags, and tax, it was about $777.  It also came with the carrying case and sling.  I didn't know it came with all that anyways though.

So far it seems to be shooting okay.  I have just been shooting at cow crap and rocks accross the road from me.  I am using my reloads.  I think I am going to be happy with it. :-D  Thanks again for all of your support.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:20:38 AM EDT
You will be an AR OWNER..... resistance is futile.......
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