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Posted: 8/6/2011 8:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 8:41:54 AM EDT by Banditman]
Looking at Armalite, DPMS and RRA.

Looking for a dependable, sub MOA shooting rifle in the sub $2000 range.

Tell me what I need to know and let's please not make this a pissing match.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 8:54:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 8:55:11 AM EDT by aznisegi]
Armalite - Not a fan but some people swear by them. They can be made straight shooters for sure and probably will fit the bill.

RRA - Great guns, run fal mags, and guaranteed 1 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. not great but you can fiddle with it.

DPMS - You can find one that shoots great and you can find one that can't shoot a wall. These guns tend to be a bit finicky on different types of ammunition. May be more trouble than its worth unless you get a good one or find a good project you want to work on. If you're not looking to lug it around, DPMS LR-308 24" stainless barrel is good place for a tack driver but its HEAVY as hell
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:16:28 AM EDT
There are several things to consider. First what magazines do you want to use as each uses different mags. The Mag Pul P-mag that fits the DPMS seems to me to be pick of the litter. Next thing to think about is how heavy do you want this rifle to be as there is a tremendous difference in weight between some of the M4 type guns and some of the A4 heavy barrel flat top guns which can be so bulky and heavy as to merit wheels in their longest heaviest configuration. You need to ask yourself what do you really want this rifle to do - how will it be used long range target VS CQB VS hunting etc it really makes a difference in what build is right for you. Other than the stated obvious there are some other possibles. The custom made one from GAPrecision is quite a tack driver as is the LaRue made version. White Oak Armory will custom build uppers also but will have nothing to do with the lower and their uppers for AR-15 s are used by many top rifle competition shooters. Try to handle some different models more than once and consider how much time you will spend carrying this beast. The majority of these rifles shoot very very well but add a large tactical scope to them and they are a pretty big rifle size wise. I do suggest no matter which you choose that you install a Smith Enterprises Vortex flash suppressor on it to save your night vision. When it comes to scope mounts La Rue Tactical is way ahead of the herd on quality. As far as optics for the M4 versions I like compact ACOG's and ACOGS and for the larger ones I like the Super Sniper variable 3-9x42 mil quad scope or the 5-20x50 if you are going after true long range. Note the true long range bullet in a .308 is a 190 SMK running over 2600 FPS so that would be best with a barrel like the R5 barrel 1 in 11.25 twist used in the M24. Such ammo has to be hand loaded but the closest thing is 175 SMK loads like Federals Gold Metal Match. Talk to the company you select and let them know what ammo you wish to shoot and inquire about the suitability of that type of ammo for their rifle. Pretty sure GAPrecision is right on top of their game on this stuff. Military rifles like the M1a cant shoot the heavy stuff as it will bend the op rod they tyically shoot 150 to 173 gr ball ammo but the AR platform guns are differen however I would definately ask as you want the twist of the barrel matched to the weight of the bullet you wish to shoot.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:18:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 9:26:13 AM EDT by Urimaginaryfrnd]
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:19:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 9:19:30 AM EDT by ziarifleman]
I would recommend an Armalite, personally.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:37:36 AM EDT
How soon do you need it?

I'm holding off for now to see what happens with Colt's 901
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:44:22 AM EDT
I was looking at all 3 back in the spring. I ended up going with Armalite. 2nd choice was RRA but I am so glad I didn't due to the mag issues (some) are having with them. RRA has been promising polymer mags for a while now and still have not delivered. The FAL mags seem to be hit or miss if they work. RRA's big plus is if you can get mags to work, their barrels are very accurate and they have ambi controls.

I have never been a big fan of DPMS guns in general so I probably didn't give them a fair shake when I was shopping.

Some complain about the prices on Armalite mags, but I have found them very easy to get on the EE for much cheaper than from Armalite. And Armalite has dropped their prices recently on individual mags. The Armalite mags feed great and are extremely strong.

I am very happy with my choice of Armalite for a 308 AR. Mine was a little over 2K. Functions great. Still haven't had a chance to stretch its wings over 100 yards yet. Waiting for the wheat to be cut. If you have any questions for me on the Armalite, please let me know.




Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:56:20 AM EDT
For your choices, I'd get Armalite, trading KAC/DPMS pattern for quality. If you can hold off and save another $500, well, that's what I'd do. Then you can get LMT, GAP-10, or Larue.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 10:17:55 AM EDT
I would seriously consider saving the extra $500 and looking at the GAP 10, its on a completely different level than everything else listed and will outshoot them all.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 10:51:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 10:54:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 11:06:44 AM EDT by DaveS]
ARMALITE AR-10A4 @ $1200-$1300 and has a rep to be sub-MOA
out of the box and makes SA NM M1As wimper on the line.

And that is all with a non-FF chrome-lined pipe.

That leaves you @ $650 extra to put toward good glass.

Link Posted: 8/6/2011 11:17:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2011 11:22:55 AM EDT by Banditman]
Thanks for all the replies so far. I am not going to buy one until about
march 2012. I am a man with a plan and want to know as much as I can
in advance of my purchase.I have wanted an M1A for years, but have
decided that an AR platform 308 will be better. I do hand load so ammo
is not a problem.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 3:44:37 PM EDT
rock river uses fal mags you can find thempretty cheap if you take the time to look , but like anything else there are crappy surplus mags and you get what you pay for. dpms and rock river along with thermold are making new magazines at a reasonable price.
armalite uses proprietory magazines there are not any surplus mags and they really are not that cheap but I never knew my buddy to have any issues with function on his
dpms uses knight / mag-pul magazines which are more avalible and a cheaper price.
so if you wish to make a purchase based on the magazine there are your choices in the price range you stated .
I own a rock river lar-8 with a 20 inch a4 upper . I have no regrets it is a good shooting rifle and yes I would buy another , but I have noticed armalite has a national match version of the ar 10 and it has really caught my eye and could be a very nice merry christmas to me present.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 3:52:00 PM EDT
Armalite
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 7:15:46 PM EDT
Colt SP901.....................
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 11:47:39 AM EDT
Magazines do not matter. Whether you handload or buy factory ammo, you will spend much more feeding the rifle than you will on magazines. You should NEVER make a decision based on magazines.

If you handload, you can get longer bullets in the AR-10. You have a variety or magazine options, from 5 rds to 25rds. All work great, are very strong, and are based off the most battle proven 308 magazine out there. The M1A. You can modify M14 mags to work in the Armalite. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes they dont. There are plenty of people who still use GEN I mags today. It really only matters if you get the mag catch in the right spot.

You can also just hold an M14 magazine in the magwell and it will function. But wont hold the bolt back. Armalite sells a mod kit for M14 mags on there site.

The RRA is made like all RRA, very well. But it uses an odd ball magazine. I have shot 2 different RRA, both felt great, and had nice OEM triggers. But both had mag issues at the range. Which were the mags, not the gun. But good FAL mags are hard to come by. Sure they are cheap, but the good ones have almost been bought up. There are 2 different FAL mags, and not all of them are marked clearly. I think only the metric mags work in RRA, but I may be incorrect on that.

DPMS just sucks. Poor quality control, and not very good customer service. They focus on producing as many rifles as possible at the cheapest possible price. That includes using cheaper material to make their rifles and parts. If you want an SR25 clone, go with LMT. They get the best rating of the SR25 clones. Made very well, ambi controls, quick barrel change, mono upper receiver. They make good stuff.

I went with Armalite. It felt the best in my hands, and the LMT was not out when I made my choice. Still would go with Armalite. They have great quality control, make alot of their parts in house, to strict standards. Fantastic customer service, and just an all around good company. They have different models to choose from, that will shoot just as well as any GAP-10. They have a few different calibers, NM models, stainless models, and the SASS shoot just as well as anything out there if you are a good shooter. People can talk all the bullshit they want about magazines. It just should not matter when buying a firearm. Magpul makes a 308 mag, wow. Why does no one use Larue mags, or LMT mags, or KAC mags? Magpul mags a mediocre mag, at best. Armalite, Larue, and KAC make the most reliable magazines. And you pay for it, big deal. People cry about prices when they spend $2-5000, and more, on a rifle. Then want to feed it with cheap $20 magazines? Makes no sense to me. But people are stupid, so what can you say?

Armalite or RRA will be a sure thing. Just need to be more aware when buying mags for the RRA.
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 12:56:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 6mmAR15:
Colt SP901.....................


Why, from the long noted history of that model or
of your extensive ownership and use?

Just trying to be precise in my question.
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 1:16:33 PM EDT
I bought my DPMS SASS second hand to save $$. It had ejection issues so I sent it to DPMS. They replaced some parts in the BCG & polished the chamber. Runs like a top now & sub MOA 5 shot groups @ 100 (best so far is .48" and average is .75").

If I had it to do again... I would go with a customized self built gun. I really regret not having a rifle length gas system. I also don't use the Manganese flip up sights & replace the pistol grip.

I think there is a lot to be said for purchasing a stripped lower/upper & putting together the exact gun you want.

The closest I found to what I wanted was the DPMS Mark 12, and I highly suggest it =) (too bad I came to that decision after purchasing the SASS)
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 1:23:50 PM EDT
ive had a couple different brands of 308 AR over the years, and am looking to replace one that i just traded for a 300 WM, and i think i am going to go back to armalite.

i originally had an AR10A4 SPR with 20inch SS barrel,

pulled the barrel, put in a 22inch krieger, kac trigger ran a custom surpressor, got bored with it and sold it

built up a noveske barreled MA TEN, shot it a little bit, very reliable, never got to see how good it shot. traded it for a mcmillan a4 300wm

the sr25, MWS and the OBR are all great rifles but they all carry a premium price tag and dont give you much better result at the end of the day, yes these rifles do have millitary pedigree, the SR25 with us, the MWS with the Brits, and the OBR with some military compititions at the very least, but you have to remember that the canadians are using the ar10 in afghanistan and are doing fine.

the fit and finish of some rifles may be better than others but in terms of performance are all pretty close

Link Posted: 8/8/2011 3:20:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaveS:
Originally Posted By 6mmAR15:
Colt SP901.....................


Why, from the long noted history of that model or
of your extensive ownership and use?

Just trying to be precise in my question.


No, because Colt never puts out a dog...
Link Posted: 8/8/2011 3:58:54 PM EDT
DPMS I have 5 in AR 10 configuration and all all great shooters. I did have one in 300 SAUM that would not eject, but polished chamber and it works fine now.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:34:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Originally Posted By DaveS:
Originally Posted By 6mmAR15:
Colt SP901.....................


Why, from the long noted history of that model or
of your extensive ownership and use?

Just trying to be precise in my question.


No, because Colt never puts out a dog...


Because.......everything I ever sold.......that was Colt.......I never, and I repeat never.....lost money on it...............

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:43:41 PM EDT
I have a DPMS LR308. shot great out of the box. With handloads and a cheap scope shoots sub MOA. I've even shot 600 yd matches with it and the only problems were with the shooter, not the gun, Only thing I did to mine was polish the chamber - had some chambering issues with re-sized brass but since I did that it runs fine
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 3:31:37 PM EDT
I have RRA lar8 its moa with port and dag surplus sub moa with my reloads!I dont have mag problems but you can get new ones from DSA.RRA gives you dual mag and bolt releaseand there match trigger!The cryo treatment on the barrel does make it easier to clean and more accurate.RRAs fit and finish is great. You have to handle and check them all out!
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:19:10 PM EDT
I just finished my first AR-10 build and got out to the range yesterday. I built mine on an Armalite stripped lower and just put a NM complete upper on it. Not enough rounds down yet to say much but it functioned 100% and was MOA at 100yds. It is basically the SASS w/o the adjustable gas system and a stainless barrel. And mine has a Geissele SDE two-stage trigger (first two-stage and it is really nice). My build is in for about $1800 with the PRS stock and Geissele trigger. For about $300 more I could have built my upper with a Noveske barrel, but the NM upper can shoot better than me so didn't spend the extra money or time on an upper build. Here are my specs for my lower:

Armalite Stripped Lower205.00
Armalite LPK w/o Trigger60.00
Trigger (Geissele SDE )225.00
Magpul Maid Grip26.00
Magpul 308 PRS 200.00 (Cheaper Than Dirt)
Armalite Buffer19.00
Armalite Buffer Spring9.00
Armalite Standard Receiver Extension35.00
Magpul Trigger Guard18.00
Magpul Maid Grip Wedge4.00
Total = 801.00

Buying the complete NM rifle would have been about the same cost but w/o the Magpul PRS and Geissele SDE Trigger. So building you get an extra $425 worth of accessories to play with.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:32:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2011 6:34:41 PM EDT by Banditman]
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:34:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2011 6:35:06 PM EDT by Banditman]
double tap

Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:49:18 PM EDT
Armalite makes a great 308 AR for the money. It won't be on par with a GAP, but it won't cost as much either. I also agree with the poster that mentioned not to buy based on magazine type. Armalite Gen 2 mags are fantastic and durable as hell.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:52:59 PM EDT


That's a great choice and can be found for around $1750 locally.

Link Posted: 8/11/2011 3:02:39 AM EDT
I have been running AR-10s since 2000. I have had ONE ejector fail in all that time.

They are accurate and reliable. I find the whole mag issue to be laughable and I have about 50 mags, 47 Gen II and 3 Gen I. Sold my Gen I mags to those in states that still have bans as I acquired Gen II mags.

This is a TEN shot group with my 10T:



These are my AR10s:

10A2 carbine:



10A4 rifle:



10A4 carbine with suppressor:



10T with SASS gas system, SASS handguards, and suppressor:



SASS with suppressor:



Two new 10T uppers with 24 inch barrels that I put together but have yet to get to shoot:



I guess I am biased, but the AR-10s have served their purposes well and I see no need to buy something either cheaper or a lot more expensive.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 5:02:09 AM EDT
#1 New ArmaLite
#2 Used Noveske
#3 Used LMT

Both my ArmaLite and Noveske are great and I'll be adding a LMT soon. Laser accurate and they almost shoot themselves.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 1:24:59 PM EDT
Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, I'm interested in a 308 as well, but I live in NYS where we still have the AWB. Am I right in thinking that the Armalite would probably be best in terms of the ease of getting new 10-round magazines and also pre-ban hi-caps?
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 2:37:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I have been running AR-10s since 2000. I have had ONE ejector fail in all that time.

They are accurate and reliable. I find the whole mag issue to be laughable and I have about 50 mags, 47 Gen II and 3 Gen I. Sold my Gen I mags to those in states that still have bans as I acquired Gen II mags.

This is a TEN shot group with my 10T:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC07336.jpg

These are my AR10s:

10A2 carbine:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC08612.jpg

10A4 rifle:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC08620.jpg

10A4 carbine with suppressor:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC08587.jpg

10T with SASS gas system, SASS handguards, and suppressor:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff2/DSC09900.jpg

SASS with suppressor:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff2/DSC09897.jpg

Two new 10T uppers with 24 inch barrels that I put together but have yet to get to shoot:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff2/DSC09982.jpg

I guess I am biased, but the AR-10s have served their purposes well and I see no need to buy something either cheaper or a lot more expensive.

Very nice collection you have there.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 4:35:27 AM EDT
Good info in this thread - I was looking at the same options (DPMS, RRA, Armalite) and just went with the Armalite 10A4B. Also ordered the 5 pack mag special from the Armalite site - seems to be best prices.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 6:08:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, I'm interested in a 308 as well, but I live in NYS where we still have the AWB. Am I right in thinking that the Armalite would probably be best in terms of the ease of getting new 10-round magazines and also pre-ban hi-caps?


I believe so, the Gen I ArmaLite mags would qualify as pre-ban being made on early M14 mag bodies.
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