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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/8/2004 5:21:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 5:22:11 AM EST by macros73]
Anyone know? The place I've seen generally don't have any on-hand and expect payment weeks in advance of having any actual product. Are even the bullets or their equiv available so I can roll my own loads?

Should I just grab some HO2279 (HO 22 CAL 75 GR BTHP MATCH) and start developing some loads?

If I load my own, what brass should I use and where can I find it?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:44:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 5:48:36 AM EST by mr_wilson]
I buy my 77grm SMK ammo, close to the MK262 mod1 from GPSS, or you can get the Sierra 77grn. SMKs (the bullets) from any number of places....

MidSouth Shooters Supply

Champion Shooters Inc

MidWay

and many others.......

And no Tommy never taps my credit card before he delivers, but ya might have to wait until Black Hills gets the ammo to him, (not his fault).

Mike

added:


If I load my own, what brass should I use and where can I find it?


I'd say get the LC at RVOW, but last time I checked, they got no more LC brass, my accuracy load brass, which is always Remington I get from these guys: www.blue-star-inc.com/rbrass.htm, by the K and yep it's mostly RP.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 12:04:57 PM EST
I think Hornady 75gr TAP is the one that closely resembles Mk262's terminal performance?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 12:28:13 PM EST
Also, does anybody know what powders and charge weights are used?
Any ideas about the pressure differences between the Military and Comercial loads?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:51:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ando:
Also, does anybody know what powders and charge weights are used?
Any ideas about the pressure differences between the Military and Comercial loads?



If you merely want to replicate a 75gr Hornady or 77gr Nosler at the "hotter than 223 SAAMI" velocity, and not worry about cannelure, bullet crimp, primer crimp, and sealant..

You might try looking up what High-Power shooters are using in these bullet weights. The load data I got from a contact at Camp Perry this year indicates many used the 75gr Hornady with Varget, N140. N540, and W748. Personally, I'd work up a load with Varget first and go from there.

-z
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:05:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:16:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
If the plan is to make this a reloading thread, IT WILL BE MOVED/LOCKED.


Nope, I'm done. If somebody doesn't know how to proceed given the data presented, they probably shouldn't.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:46:35 PM EST
i have been searching for the same information for 4 days for commercially avaible equivelent loads to the MK262 for my MK12. the only place I know of was GPSS but Tommy said he doesn't know when of even IF he can get anymore so now i'm looking for the "next" best alternitive. I have
found little information on 2 other rounds or were to even get them. the Hornaday 75 gr TAP round and even less information of the Federal 77 Gr OTM NATO load.
anyone have more info on the Federal 77 Gr load? and is the Hornaday 75 Gr load OTM Nato?
the easyest question would just be..
what are ALL the commercially loaded avaible loads that are the closest Equivelentsto the
MK262 load and were to get them?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:52:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 9:55:00 PM EST by DevL]
None of the loads are close you can get commercially. None are NATO pressure, none have crimped primers, none use the cannelured Sierra bullet. Lose the obsession with MK 262 Mod 1 ammo and buy 75 grain TAP for defense or Black Hills 77 grain for match shooting.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:12:34 AM EST
GPSS's last deal fell through and is dead. Sniff. Dear [insert diety here], won't SOMEBODY step up and offer the load!!?!?? Blackhills said all they need is a 10K (or was it 15K?) order. If there is a group by I'm in like Flint. I don't understand why no other companies have attempted this, 10K rounds is not that much of an investment for any moderate to larger company. It's the only AR ammo I am wound up about other than match rounds for precision shooting. It's killing me over here, I had a case and a half on order.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:23:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 5:25:59 AM EST by Robert2011]
I was in the first group buy and never saw a group of more flakey and impatient people. I kept wondering if it would come to pass with all the idiots involved, jumping in, jumping out, badmouthing the whole process and trashing the vendor trying to put it all together. I didn't follow the second buy until just before it crash landed. What a bunch of whiners, morons and ******* (I can't say it like it is with out violating the COC) were involved in that one. It looked worse than the first buy.

No vendor in their right mind would EVER get involved in another group buy for Mk262 based on past performance. The potential for getting burned is too high. The ************* have ruined it for all of us.

A few people really wanted that ammo. The clowns in this forum made sure that will never happen.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:29:20 AM EST
Well said, Robert2011. I also was in on the first buy and hoped to be able to get some more. I knew going into the buy that this was an up-front deal that could take some time. I would do it again. Alas, that doesn't seem to be a possibility at this time, though Mk262 is still offered on the GPSS website.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:23:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Robert2011:
I was in the first group buy and never saw a group of more flakey and impatient people. I kept wondering if it would come to pass with all the idiots involved, jumping in, jumping out, badmouthing the whole process and trashing the vendor trying to put it all together. I didn't follow the second buy until just before it crash landed. What a bunch of whiners, morons and ******* (I can't say it like it is with out violating the COC) were involved in that one. It looked worse than the first buy.

No vendor in their right mind would EVER get involved in another group buy for Mk262 based on past performance. The potential for getting burned is too high. The ************* have ruined it for all of us.

A few people really wanted that ammo. The clowns in this forum made sure that will never happen.



Fuck you calling me a whiner! A clown? I was one of those people that wanted that ammo badly and I got bent over so go fuck yourself. I was way fucking patient with that shit.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:30:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:29:32 PM EST

Phobia, I don't know what you said in the past and have not singled you out. The posts I was referring to are gone, probably deleted by the moderators because they were malicious attacks. You may have missed the threads because they did not last long. They were nasty. Your above post would have been considered one of the nicer ones if it was in one of those threads.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:23:23 PM EST
Sorry, I'm still hot over this whole thing, it still isn't over for me.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:40:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 4:45:06 AM EST
Why not just roll your own? That way, you can come up with something that will deliver a 77 SMK at the same velocity as MK262 and at the same time much more accurate in YOUR rifle.

Head on over to the reloading forum. This discussion has been going on for quite some time and the data is well developed.

Luck,

SD
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 8:43:55 AM EST
Come on people, for 10,000 rounds we are only talking a stinking $6000. What moderate or larger company could not afford to pay that (less because profit and shipping is included in that cost) up front for ANY stock? Cripes, if I weren't so strapped at this particular time I would just buy my own 10K lot from Blackhills. Companies do not purchase all their stock only after it's already sold. You buy your stock and sell it over time. I do not see what a risk it would be for any moderate or larger sized company to just buy the stuff and sell it as people buy it - no dependence on flakey commitments or people, you want some you buy some just like any other stock. The only companies I know that couldn't afford to front the ammo are either tiny one man type shops or those in deep financial trouble. Now if we were talking about a $60,000 deal, I could see a significant risk but less than $6000? Get real. I'd bug MSTN but they probably don't want to get into the ammo business. As far as I know MSTN is run by 2 guys and look at what they accomplish. They front many tens of thousands of dollars to get their product. Surely there are companies out there who could afford to get this done without looking at any significant risk. The risk on GPSS's part was their own financial difficulties and with the ammo being so expensive the risk it wouldn't be sold quickly. Other companies shouldn't have that problem in general.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:20:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 6:52:15 PM EST
True, but they lowered the second buy minimum to 15,000rds. I couldn't get my own lot if I had to buy a lot of 50,000 before they reduce the minimum. Worth looking into still I think, they may not need a larger initial order.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:46:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:26:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:52:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 4:39:54 AM EST by Banzai]
AK Mike, something to considder is that many retail outlets, and mail order places like Tommys, don't run on a very big profit margin, and usually use "Just in time" stocking to prevent warehousing costs (which would have to be passed on to the consumer). I'm in retail (Gunshop manager) and IF we make a 15-19% margin on most guns and accessories, we're doing good. At only 13%, we're not gonna be able to keep the lights on or the doors open for very long. The gun, and especially the mail order market is just THAT saturated. That said, getting stuck with as much of the 77gn stuff that Tommy got stuck with, it's a big financial burden that DOES NOT fit in the budget. To do a current GP for the ammo would likely take a merchant that is committed to having the stock (if everyone bails) because he knows that he will be able to move it, or has the financial "Surplus" to commit to it up front on his own and is willing to loose it if the stock can't be moved.

As far as getting the components to roll your own, like has been posted before, the recipes are well known, as is the process.

RVO and several places will process your brass, and that includes SEALING AND CRIPMING the primers, which seems to be one of the things that everyone wants now-a-days. Also, watch the common reloading places (MidwayUSA, MidSouth Shooters, etc) as they constantly run across huge lots of brass already primed with sealant and crimps. I just got 5k from Midway last week. Bright, shiny Win!

I have some of the Nosler bullets, 77 gn w/ cannelure (thank you SHOT Show). I ground one down, and it seems to be about the same jacket as the Sierra MK. It may be a little thinner, it's difficult to measure on a reverse engineered item and the specs of jacket and core composition are often proprietary information, but the cannelure is rather pronounced where it presses into the core, which probably is part of it's wounding characteristics, but, as was posted by someone else, the accuracy just isn't there when compared to the SMK.

According to Sierra, and other online defense review sources, Sierra has agreed to cannelure and catalog the 77gn MKw/cannelure as a constant run item, which has always been the military's choice of bullet (at least the Naval units that I'm associated with). New deliveries of the 262 are supposed to be loaded with the SMK when the supply of the Noslers are used up.

I'm active duty Navy, and as a registered competative HP shooter, I'm issued BH 77gn, and have been for years. It dried up to a trickle pretty much as soon as hostilities started, because it was all going to units in country. Our match rounds in the early days of the BH was commercial purchase, and then when the military contracted for it, it came with crimps and sealant. Current match lots (that I have gotten, at least) do not have cannelure or case mouth crimps. In fact, they resemble "BLEMS" that BH has for sale from time to time. Call 'em and see.

There are at least 2 companies making cannelure cutting/pressing tools. They work.

I'll agree, reloading isn't for everyone. It's a hobby in and of itself, and one with the potential to blow your equipment (both hardware and software) all over the range if you get it wrong. It also involves a healthy input of $$ to get the equipment to start, not to mention the time to prep and load. Recovering the cost of your equipment to break even will take less time when you're reloading something like the 77gn rounds than it will if you're just loading 55 or 62gn pulls and surplus powder for plinking rounds. Who knows, you just might end up with something MORE accurate in your rifles!

The other alternative is going with, as already mentioned, something that's close. If TSHTF, or TEOTWAWKI comes about, all that will matter is that you have SOMETHING to get downrange, in general.

For match shooters or true accuracy buffs, commercially loaded ammunition or rolling your own is part of the cost of the game. You don't see NASCAR drivers complaining about the cost of a gallon of gas or the price of tires, do you?
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