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Posted: 1/9/2005 2:11:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 2:13:03 PM EDT by pulpsmack]
The Statistics of the AR-15 (as per the BFI XM-15 manual) are as follows:

Maximum effective range: 550 meters (individual/point targets) 800 meters (area targets)
Maximum range: 3534 meters

I don't have it handy but these numbers agree with my recollection of the statistics for the M-16A2 in the Guidebook for Marines.

I have always considered the M4/M16 to be a short range battle rifle (short/med range at best) and given the ballistic properties of the 5.56 round which are lost with distance, I question the validity of these numbers.

The battle rifle's "effectiveness" IMO is the rifle's ability to take down a man from a distance. assuming that ammo doesn't varry (XM-193, M855, etc) the main variables that I see in the the M16 & M4 are barrel length (affecting accuracy as well as velocity) and optics. Granted, a rifle that relies on fragmentation for effectiveness won't have a max effective range (IMO) of 450 meters with optics when the round won't take a man down at 300 meters with iron sights.

Bearing all that in mind I would ask what you consider the maximum effective range ( in terms of accuracy AND velocity) of the following:

1. M4 with iron sights

2. M4 with magnification optics

3. M16 A1 with iron sights*

4. M16 (A2, A3, A4) with iron sights

5. M16 (A2, A3, A4) with magnification optics



* If you would like to include 3a. an A1 with magnification optics then knock yourself out.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 2:41:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 2:41:22 PM EDT by Krazny13]
I routinely shoot my AR15 at 600 yds with Iron sights.
It is pretty easy, after you figure out what the wind is doing


EDIT: it is an A2 20"
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:09:37 PM EDT
Pulpsmack, exactly what is your point?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:21:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
Pulpsmack, exactly what is your point?



I have 18 mail order bride cantidates arriving on the 4th of March. I can only marry one and I have to shoot the rest and eliminate the evidence. 7 of them are olympic-quality sprinters (I don't know which) so when I break the news to them I need a rifle that will keep up with the last and the fastest, so the question is can I get away with the 16" or should I just bring the old 20"?


What do you think my point is?

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:35:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
Pulpsmack, exactly what is your point?



I have 18 mail order bride cantidates arriving on the 4th of March. I can only marry one and I have to shoot the rest and eliminate the evidence. 7 of them are olympic-quality sprinters (I don't know which) so when I break the news to them I need a rifle that will keep up with the last and the fastest, so the question is can I get away with the 16" or should I just bring the old 20"?


What do you think my point is?





Possibly that you're full of published statistics?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:44:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
Pulpsmack, exactly what is your point?



I have 18 mail order bride cantidates arriving on the 4th of March. I can only marry one and I have to shoot the rest and eliminate the evidence. 7 of them are olympic-quality sprinters (I don't know which) so when I break the news to them I need a rifle that will keep up with the last and the fastest, so the question is can I get away with the 16" or should I just bring the old 20"?


What do you think my point is?




Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:47:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:







Way to spot the obvious, Capn
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 3:59:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
Pulpsmack, exactly what is your point?



I have 18 mail order bride cantidates arriving on the 4th of March. I can only marry one and I have to shoot the rest and eliminate the evidence. 7 of them are olympic-quality sprinters (I don't know which) so when I break the news to them I need a rifle that will keep up with the last and the fastest, so the question is can I get away with the 16" or should I just bring the old 20"?


What do you think my point is?


he he he.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:02:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
Pulpsmack, exactly what is your point?



I have 18 mail order bride cantidates arriving on the 4th of March. I can only marry one and I have to shoot the rest and eliminate the evidence. 7 of them are olympic-quality sprinters (I don't know which) so when I break the news to them I need a rifle that will keep up with the last and the fastest, so the question is can I get away with the 16" or should I just bring the old 20"?


What do you think my point is?




hr


One word, use a Highpoint... Cheap as sh#@, why waste a good AR throwing it in a river
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 4:52:17 PM EDT
When they say 'effective', they mean "hit the target". They do not mean, "still blows heads off just like in that movie "Three Kings".

In other words, the rifle/ammunition/sighting system combination is good enough to get reasonably reliable hits out to the distances stated for each type of target. I do not know the qualification criteria they used.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:05:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
The Statistics of the AR-15 (as per the BFI XM-15 manual) are as follows:

Maximum effective range: 550 meters (individual/point targets) 800 meters (area targets)
Maximum range: 3534 meters

I don't have it handy but these numbers agree with my recollection of the statistics for the M-16A2 in the Guidebook for Marines.

I have always considered the M4/M16 to be a short range battle rifle (short/med range at best) and given the ballistic properties of the 5.56 round which are lost with distance, I question the validity of these numbers.

The battle rifle's "effectiveness" IMO is the rifle's ability to take down a man from a distance. assuming that ammo doesn't varry (XM-193, M855, etc) the main variables that I see in the the M16 & M4 are barrel length (affecting accuracy as well as velocity) and optics. Granted, a rifle that relies on fragmentation for effectiveness won't have a max effective range (IMO) of 450 meters with optics when the round won't take a man down at 300 meters with iron sights.

Bearing all that in mind I would ask what you consider the maximum effective range ( in terms of accuracy AND velocity) of the following:

1. M4 with iron sights

2. M4 with magnification optics

3. M16 A1 with iron sights*

4. M16 (A2, A3, A4) with iron sights

5. M16 (A2, A3, A4) with magnification optics



* If you would like to include 3a. an A1 with magnification optics then knock yourself out.



Effective range IMO translates to the maximum distance where full lethality is maintained. Lethality translates to fragmentation.

M4: 100 yards
M16/AR15: 175 yards

After these distances lethality drops off dramatically, resulting in less severe .22 caliber wounds. Shot Placement becomes critical if fragmentation is removed.
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