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Posted: 4/30/2011 5:37:17 AM EDT
This has probably been beat to death, and I looked a few pages back but could not find anything. So where does the M & P rifles fit in?
I have a buddy who is entry level and is looking at a M&P tactical and is asking what I think of them. I told him to look at DD or a Sabre Def if he could find one. But he is on a budget....
Thanks for your help
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:47:16 AM EDT
There aint a damn thing wrong with Smiths. The Tier queers can nitpick them all they want but they are putting out solid ARs.





Then they changed the lineup.



You got to wonder about some of the new specs but the 5R rifling is a nice addition. There is something for just about anyone now though. Just match the specs with what he wants to do.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:02:01 AM EDT
Good question and waiting to see the response on this one.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:20:44 AM EDT
Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:08:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


lol
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:47:09 AM EDT
My S&W was the first factory built AR I ever bought. Everything on it functions 100% and the price was good too. Some of the early Smiths' had a issue with PMAGs not dropping freely, but the later ones work like a champ. Your friend shouldn't have an issue with any S&W that he gets and the best part is if he does, S&W will fix and return it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:18:16 AM EDT
Tier 2.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 9:25:10 AM EDT
your safe, with other guns
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 11:07:46 AM EDT
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 11:14:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


Ummm....hate to break it to you, but Colt makes their own lowers in house.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 11:14:21 AM EDT
I think there are better rifles available for the money, but it comes down to how many hairs you want to split.

For anything practical, it will work just as good as any Ar15 out there.  But for very little more, I can get a rifle held to higher specs....so why not.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 12:47:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.




impossible, from everything I have read here, BCM is the only gun that goes boom, apparently all these other manufacturers are selling paper weights.  I have refined my upper that I will be selling here.  It is assembled by a magical warlock.  the BCG is made from Unicorn horn making it the hardest and most reliable substance in the universe.  It does not need to be lubed at is also the most slippery substance.  

My initial run will be one of 5000 units.  My magical warlock has told me that he channeled and spoke to J. Browning himself and he approves.  To give it even more credibility, my friends aunt, who has a neighbor that knew a guy that was friends with a Specs Ops soldier said they prefer my uppers...


taking orders now
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 12:50:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I think there are better rifles available for the money, but it comes down to how many hairs you want to split.

For anything practical, it will work just as good as any Ar15 out there.  But for very little more, I can get a rifle held to higher specs....so why not.


This post nails it OP. Your friend should look at Spikes Tactical.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 12:59:59 PM EDT
My smith runs just fine and is one of the most accurate AR's I've seen. I'd be more concerned with the exact price offered for a given model in his area, what style he's after and saving money for ammo and such. If he wants a basic model for minimal cash that works great, Spikes is currently on top. DD makes a good rifle as well. Again, I'd pay more attention to how much for what setup. Buying the $700 spikes and then putting Omega rails on it later can be a very cost effective solution for someone who wants a KISS rifle but decides they want rails later on. I haven't looked to see what a SW Tactical runs, but I seem to recall that the equivalent model was a bit more than the Spikes in terms of actual in store pricing. Of course, you can handle the SW first, kind of hard to find a Spikes in the store.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 1:05:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


This used to be the case but I'm pretty sure SW does their own machining now.  When they switched from stag making them (serial range 50k to 60k) is when some would not drop pmags.  They fixed that problem though.

Can someone else confirm this?
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 1:10:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chuck1022:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.




impossible, from everything I have read here, BCM is the only gun that goes boom, apparently all these other manufacturers are selling paper weights.  I have refined my upper that I will be selling here.  It is assembled by a magical warlock.  the BCG is made from Unicorn horn making it the hardest and most reliable substance in the universe.  It does not need to be lubed at is also the most slippery substance.  

My initial run will be one of 5000 units.  My magical warlock has told me that he channeled and spoke to J. Browning himself and he approves.  To give it even more credibility, my friends aunt, who has a neighbor that knew a guy that was friends with a Specs Ops soldier said they prefer my uppers...


taking orders now


This isn't GD.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 1:33:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 1:35:27 PM EDT
my month old M&POR drops pmags free no problem and is a nice rifle
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 1:46:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I think there are better rifles available for the money, but it comes down to how many hairs you want to split.

For anything practical, it will work just as good as any Ar15 out there.  But for very little more, I can get a rifle held to higher specs....so why not.


This post nails it OP. Your friend should look at Spikes Tactical.


You are fine with SW, I have compared it to a Spikes and I would take the SW first....
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 2:34:01 PM EDT
My M&P15 (model 811000) is a great piece of gear that functions flawlessly. No issues with PMags, or any other mags, dropping free. It eats anything I feed it as well. Over 2k rounds through it in the past 2 1/2 months and I am happy with the purchase. I can say, at least for mine and this model, that the MP15 is GTG.



Link Posted: 4/30/2011 2:52:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I think there are better rifles available for the money, but it comes down to how many hairs you want to split.

For anything practical, it will work just as good as any Ar15 out there.  But for very little more, I can get a rifle held to higher specs....so why not.


Yup
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:51:29 PM EDT
Some local SO SWAT guys use them. I asked them what they thought of them, and they said they were happy with them. They shoot a lot in training, and said the S&W's were very reliable.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:07:24 PM EDT




Originally Posted By Strela:

Some local SO SWAT guys use them. I asked them what they thought of them, and they said they were happy with them. They shoot a lot in training, and said the S&W's were very reliable.




My brother in laws LE Department is switching from the RRA's to Smiths. They are getting a version of the 100011 but it has a 1/7 twist.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:56:50 PM EDT
I have always been a Colt guy however the S&W I just got (15TS) is a great weapon.  Came with a 14.5" CMV 1/7 barrel and factory fitter Vortex.  Fit finish and function is 100%.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 4:58:40 PM EDT
my M&P has been great. shoots everything and zero problems.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:17:42 PM EDT
i've also had great results, from many a round through my smith. i would not hesitate to buy another, or recommend them to someone. even with the 1/9 barrel mine is dead nitz on at 100 yd. with 75 gr hornady tap practice, and PP 75 gr match ammo.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:54:54 PM EDT
I have 2 of them, both flat tops. Mine were parked under the gas block. They run perfectly. Have no fear.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 5:05:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile



Unless you are a Navy SEAL this is a insane comment.  Lack of park under there is a non issue if you can take any care of a weapon.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 5:13:09 AM EDT



Originally Posted By scottrh2:



Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:

Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile






Unless you are a Navy SEAL this is a insane comment.  Lack of park under there is a non issue if you can take any care of a weapon.





Sarcasm



 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 5:44:29 AM EDT
I have an M&P15 MOE with the 1/9 twist never had an issue 2k rounds though it. I have replaced the buffer with a spikes and bcg with a bcm not because I needed to but because I wanted to.  now I want to make it into a 14.5in barrel but it is still a great rifle as it is
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 6:14:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 6:15:32 AM EDT by LaRue556]
Where do they fit in?






They fit in....my hands..and your hands like any other quality AR.





I do want to see more about the Sport though.




Many where from I'm from like to think of them as an LEO class weapon....but I'm not sure if that's for purpose and application or more namesake and traditional supply.

 
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 6:15:02 AM EDT
I really like my FT version here in NY.  It is a great little rifle.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:09:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


Ummm....hate to break it to you, but Colt makes their own lowers in house.


So does Colt make lowers for DPMS?  The new Colts and the new DPMS rifles all have the same mark on the lowers.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:22:57 AM EDT
I've been very happy with my S&W.  Had it for a while now, lot of rounds down range.  No issues, great rifle.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 8:53:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M1-Matt:

Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile



Unless you are a Navy SEAL this is a insane comment.  Lack of park under there is a non issue if you can take any care of a weapon.


Sarcasm
 



Could be................ however for it to even be discussed one way or the other ensures that someone believes it is a issue.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 8:56:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 8:57:44 AM EDT by LaRue556]
It's a very big joke on this site....very widely used. Profuse absurdity of the statement is your sign for sarcasm.




Originally Posted By scottrh2:





Originally Posted By M1-Matt:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:




Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:


Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.





Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Unless you are a Navy SEAL this is a insane comment.  Lack of park under there is a non issue if you can take any care of a weapon.








Sarcasm


 

Could be................ however for it to even be discussed one way or the other ensures that someone believes it is a issue.



Link Posted: 5/1/2011 9:33:27 AM EDT
i have a M&P 15 sport and its a good little rifle, doesnt have a Forward Assist or Dust Cover but it goes bang when i pull the trigger, and it shoots very accurately and i picked it up for just under 600 and am very happy with it
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 9:39:48 AM EDT




Originally Posted By scottrh2:



Originally Posted By M1-Matt:





Originally Posted By scottrh2:



Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:

Mine didn't drop Pmags freely. It didn't jam and was pretty accurate too. The chrome lined 4140 1/9 barrel didn't explode, the semi auto bolt carrier didn't lose a gas key, and standard weight buffer did not prove problematic. However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile






Unless you are a Navy SEAL this is a insane comment. Lack of park under there is a non issue if you can take any care of a weapon.





Sarcasm







Could be................ however for it to even be discussed one way or the other ensures that someone believes it is a issue.







I only ever had an issue one time with not having a FSB parked underneath, I got some rust seeping out from underneath the FSB a couple weeks after being out in the rain all day with a Bushmaster. But seeing as how I have never seen a FSB parked inside the "rings' that mount to the barrel I dont know how it makes a difference. One will rust just as well as the other.



I just never really thought about it, or dared bring it up here because it happened back when Bushmaster was the "Tier 1 rifle of Arfcom."
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 9:40:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


Ummm....hate to break it to you, but Colt makes their own lowers in house.


So does Colt make lowers for DPMS?  The new Colts and the new DPMS rifles all have the same mark on the lowers.


no...several companies make the forgings. Colt is not one of them.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 10:45:25 AM EDT
I'll be getting a Sport in a couple months and will report back after a few hundred reloads downrange.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 11:01:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


Ummm....hate to break it to you, but Colt makes their own lowers in house.


So does Colt make lowers for DPMS?  The new Colts and the new DPMS rifles all have the same mark on the lowers.


That "mark" is a forge marking that is not particular to Colt or DPMS & neither of these companies make raw forgings-they just machine & finish them into the end product. It is the forge house's trade mark so to speak that produced the raw forging & there are several of these around the country that produce raw forgings for brands to buy.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 11:33:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt


Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


Ummm....hate to break it to you, but Colt makes their own lowers in house.


So does Colt make lowers for DPMS?  The new Colts and the new DPMS rifles all have the same mark on the lowers.


That "mark" is a forge marking that is not particular to Colt or DPMS & neither of these companies make raw forgings-they just machine & finish them into the end product. It is the forge house's trade mark so to speak that produced the raw forging & there are several of these around the country that produce raw forgings for brands to buy.


+1   .... and each company has the lowers made to their own specs. They are all created equal as long as they come from the same forgings, but things change when the machining starts.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 1:08:08 PM EDT
So now that this is resolved, can we get back on topic?
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
Well- the lowers S&W uses are made by the same people  that make Stag, Rock River Arms, High Standard, Noveske, Century, Global Tactical, CLE, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt

Thats right-  All the guys getting dick hard over Colts have the same lower as all these guys.  Yet for some reason they cost more?

A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.


Ummm....hate to break it to you, but Colt makes their own lowers in house.


So does Colt make lowers for DPMS?  The new Colts and the new DPMS rifles all have the same mark on the lowers.


That "mark" is a forge marking that is not particular to Colt or DPMS & neither of these companies make raw forgings-they just machine & finish them into the end product. It is the forge house's trade mark so to speak that produced the raw forging & there are several of these around the country that produce raw forgings for brands to buy.


+1   .... and each company has the lowers made to their own specs. They are all created equal as long as they come from the same forgings, but things change when the machining starts.





Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 1:27:26 PM EDT
I have an M&P-15 MOE that is my go to carbine. I slightly overpaid for it running up to the election in 08 ( $1200 ) but that was the going rate for anything at the time, much cheaper now. That all said, Colts are now much cheaper, BCMs are available in the M&P price range, spikes has their fans. If I were looking for another factory built AR, I would look to colt first, then BCM and spikes for just a few dollars more than the smith. However if I ran across a good deal on another smith I would buy. It just wouldnt be my first choice these days. YMMV.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 3:48:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Originally Posted By chuck1022:
Originally Posted By Bowen1911:
A friend of mine has a S&W, and it is fine.  it goes boom when you pull the trigger.




impossible, from everything I have read here, BCM is the only gun that goes boom, apparently all these other manufacturers are selling paper weights.  I have refined my upper that I will be selling here.  It is assembled by a magical warlock.  the BCG is made from Unicorn horn making it the hardest and most reliable substance in the universe.  It does not need to be lubed at is also the most slippery substance.  

My initial run will be one of 5000 units.  My magical warlock has told me that he channeled and spoke to J. Browning himself and he approves.  To give it even more credibility, my friends aunt, who has a neighbor that knew a guy that was friends with a Specs Ops soldier said they prefer my uppers...


taking orders now




MOD WARNING
As stated this is not GD. Do not do this again, or you'll be out of the tech forums.



What the heck is GD and why was his post against forum rules? I believe his point was that S&W rifles were good to go.........
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 4:30:25 PM EDT
GD is General Discussion...where one can post anything (allowed by the set rules there).
Under the technical discussions..... OPINIONS 'should' be limited to factual information, or be based upon facts and evidence; however; too many posts become hearsay and/or speculation.
This makes decisions for new people coming here for information, rather difficult to sift through.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 5:22:30 PM EDT
I love my M&P, I have a few thousand rounds through it and have never had any issues, it's very reliable and very accurate.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 5:25:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2011 7:43:24 PM EDT by LA_357SIG]
Edited to add:
Originally Posted By LA_357SIG:
However I wouldn't use it for self defense due to the the absence of parkerizing under the FSB.

This was a sarcastic comment. It was intended to make light of the importance of certain features some in the firearms community deem neccessary to have a legitimate fighting AR15 carbine and the notion that any AR15 that does not have these features are inferior and subject to ridicule.

Parkerizing under the front sight base has zero effect on function. The S&W M&P15 I had was just fine. YMMV. If I had to, I would have no problems using it in a L&D situation.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 6:03:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matt_Krush:
GD is General Discussion...where one can post anything (allowed by the set rules there).
Under the technical discussions..... OPINIONS 'should' be limited to factual information, or be based upon facts and evidence; however; too many posts become hearsay and/or speculation.
This makes decisions for new people coming here for information, rather difficult to sift through.




THANKS!!!!!! Its getting pretty ridiculous on how many acronyms there are floating on the internet.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:32:05 PM EDT
I have just under 20,000 rounds on my M&P15T now, and it just keeps on and on.  Replaced a few springs and extractors along the way as part of routine maintenance and had one ejector spring break, but even when that one was broken it remained 100% reliable.  It digests any old shitty ammo you can throw at it, and at the other end of the scale is capable of 1MOA with good stuff from the bench.  The rifles are a bit overgassed and benefit from a heavier buffer and spring, but for a true SHTF rifle capable of shooting any ammo on the market, incredibly hard to beat.  Mil Spec, tier and chartworthy be damned - if I had to grab one of my 4 ARs in a real pinch it would still be this one.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 9:51:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2011 2:37:20 PM EDT by 597newbie]
I bought my first AR every about 8 months ago.  I am so happy with it...  the s/w optical ready I bought on sale feels like a 3rd arm attached to my body when I shoot.  


=====



shoot steel regularly at 450 to 480 yards (about a 1/4 mile) with cheap steel cased commie ammo weekly.  



=====


Edit update:  the chart referred to below is being updated so the part that I made my decision on is not in 'the  chart'.  It used to have all the different mfg's and the quality differences for each part.



THE CHART helps define quality vs price differences and helped me choose.   https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html




2nd edit update:  'the chart'  ranked the AR's based on mfg quality of parts, materials and testing.   The top tier (colt, noveske, others) were the highest price.  Right below the high priced ARs was the Smith and Wessons and when you compared quality vs price SW was right where I wanted to be.   Spikes Tactical is right there, too... but if you can get to my archive posting I could not wait to get a spikes.   And the SW was in store on sale.  



=====



this is my archived posting of all the due diligence and research I did for this rifle and I made the right decision per archived posting here  http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=509050



cost/benefit analysis is a pain but it worked out in this situation.   if you are not a member probably cant see the link above in archives.



=====



quick video of the tachyon micro xd gun cam I attached here http://www.youtube.com/user/300YardNoScope?feature=mhum#p/u/2/btwY264nH1Y



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