Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/10/2004 7:01:47 PM EST
OK, I am imbarresed to ask the question but I need the answer. I know the H-buffer is heavier than the standard 223 CAR buffer and that it weighs about the same as the 9mm buffer. Problem is I just can't figure out if this is a Colt Only item or not and just where I can buy one...

Can anybody help?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/10/2004 7:07:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/10/2004 7:29:29 PM EST
BravoCompanyUSA will take good care of you. They ship super fast.
Link Posted: 8/10/2004 7:34:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/10/2004 7:55:50 PM EST by Quarterbore]
Thanks!

I have already swapped IM and E-mails with BrovoCompanyUSA about getting one. I need it to verify if my guess about the Armalite AR-10 CAR stock sets is correct... I have the Armalite CAR setup plus lots of other buffers but no H-buffer to compare...

See: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=184139

I think H-Buffers will be very popular in the next few weeks!!! I hope to weigh the Colt buffer and compare it to what cam with the AR-10 CAR assembly and advise once and for all if they are the same...
Link Posted: 8/10/2004 7:42:46 PM EST
I ordered mine from Fulton-Armory, they have them listed as the Colt Heavy Buffer with tungston counter-weights. I think the fulton-armory ones are the 5.5 oz buffers, heavier than just the H-buffers.
Link Posted: 8/10/2004 9:36:18 PM EST
lmt h-buffers @ g&r tactical
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 12:06:40 AM EST

CAR buffer = 2.9 oz.

H buffer = 3.8 oz.

9mm buffer = 5.5 oz.

HTH
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 2:27:46 AM EST
Bushmaster has the H buffer in their catalog.
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 2:28:30 AM EST
My MGI buffer weight is 200grams @ 7.054ounces.

It goes into my .458 SOCOM lower..........that shoots .75MOA groups.

Don't rag me on price differences....with that kind of recoil.......hell, worth every da-da-damn penny!

Dave S
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 2:34:59 AM EST
What advantage does a heavier buffer give you?

Shabo
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 3:25:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By gaijin:
CAR buffer = 2.9 oz.

H buffer = 3.8 oz.

9mm buffer = 5.5 oz.

HTH



Interesting... again I don't have the slightest idea how accurate the weitht watchers scale is that I used but following is some weights I had got with it as posted on the other discussion about the CAR-10 stock: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=184139



The Buffer

The new buffer that came with the Armalite stock is nearly identical in shape and size to the RRA buffer I am comparing it to. The weight of the two buffers is NOT the same however! When I use my wife's uncalibrated and perhaps accuracy challenged "weight watchers" scale I get that the RRA 223 buffer weights 3-oz while the Armalite AR-10 CAR buffer weighs about 5.75-oz. Again, my scale is not all that accurate but it gives you all the general idea. You can feel the difference in the weight when you hold the two units! I don't think I have a "H" or Heavy buffer for the 223 CAR stock but I do have a 9mm Buffer somewhere and I hope to compare these when I get a chance.



Based on what you have posted I am not sure if this is an H-buffer or if it was modified... It is marked with H and looks like an H-Buffer but the weight is a little suspect... I have an H-Buffer ordered to compare...

www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/buffers/
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 3:43:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By dbshabo:
What advantage does a heavier buffer give you?

+1
I'm confused here- does the buffer matter- other than its length- with regrads to the action of the rifle, or is it (weight) a preference thing?

TIA
redfisher


Link Posted: 8/11/2004 4:16:17 AM EST
Weight is added to slow the carrier which in turn prevents bolt BOUNCE. If the bolt/carrier bounces off the rear of the buffer tube to hard the momentum carries forward and it can cause feeding problems as well as extra wear on the weapon.

When you think of the recoil generated by the AR-10 the weight of the buffer is obviously very important....
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 5:35:55 AM EST
would you recommend the H buffer on an AR-15 -.223/5.56?

And are there differences in the actual bolt/bolt carriers from carbine to rifle configurations, considering the difference in spring tensions and length, as well as buffer size, weight, length?

It would seem that these different sized components would have to be matched for proper function (feed/eject).

Link Posted: 8/11/2004 5:41:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By dbshabo:
What advantage does a heavier buffer give you?

Shabo



Shabo,

As mentioned above wear and proper feeding are important. It is even more so when using a 9mm upper on a full auto. The wrong buffer has a huge impact..

Link Posted: 8/11/2004 5:52:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2004 5:58:29 AM EST by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By redfisher:
would you recommend the H buffer on an AR-15 -.223/5.56?

And are there differences in the actual bolt/bolt carriers from carbine to rifle configurations, considering the difference in spring tensions and length, as well as buffer size, weight, length?

It would seem that these different sized components would have to be matched for proper function (feed/eject).




Well, this is VERY important!!!!

If you use a Rifle Length Stock with a full length Buffer tube (including fake CAR stocks with full buffer tube) YOU MUST use a rifle length Buffer! If you use a Collapsable or shorty stock with a short buffer tube YOU MUST use one of the shorter CAR Buffers!

READ THE ABOVE AS MANY TIMES AS YOU MUST TO RETAIN IT!!! People have screwed up a $10K M-16 over that mistake!!!

If you use a CAR buffer in a full length buffer tube you will DESTROY an AR-15 lower as the buffer is too short to stop the Bolt/Carrier before it slams into the rear of the AR-15 lower receiver. If you use a rifle length buffer in a CAR stock the Bolt/Carrier will not be able to go all the way ino the buffer tube and the rifle will not be able to feed! There are plastic adapters that are used with some CAR buffers (IE 9mm Buffers) that sit inside a full length buffer tube so that in essence you have a shorter buffer tube due to the spring and buffer being blocked those last 2-3 inches by a plastic plug. Pic Here

Now, as for weight, if you are not having problems it probably doesn't matter much. With a M-16 bolt bounce especially with short uppers is a common problem and this was part of the solution. Given that it smoothed out the issues it probably would be good for a semi-auto as well as it is a sign of too much excess energy...

Hope this helps...
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 8:17:01 AM EST
OK, so can we get the combined wisdom of AR15.COM on which is the "best" buffer to use in a 16" 5.56 M4-gery build ? Regular carbine buffer, H buffer, 2H buffer or 9mm buffer ? Obviously, you could work your way up in weight until you have "no problems", but this seems rather inefficient. Also, for me this is not just about functional reliability, but also about bolt longevity... whats the best buffer weight for optimal reliability and longest bolt life ?

Is there a concensus on this question here, of should I just go with (say) an H-buffer and forget about it ?
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 8:26:27 AM EST
I agree with DaveS about the MGI RRB buffer.
Alot more expensive, but worth it.
I think that MGI buffer is the best.

For the cheapest way out, I like the 9mm buffer.
Not even close in performance to the MGI RRB, though.
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 8:30:11 AM EST
I use a normal RRA 9mm CAR stock on my 223 carbine and I am comfortable with it. I use the heavy 9mm Bolt in a second AR-15 that I use with my rLightning Link and 9mm, 223, and 7.62x39 uppers... It also works just fine!

So, it is up to you... I have the H-Buffer on order and frankly after I check it out it will lileky get used in my 223 Carbine to replace the standard buffer and BravoCompanyUSA's price is pretty good on their website so it isn't an expensive upgrade!
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 8:48:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 8:51:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By gaijin:
CAR buffer = 2.9 oz.

H buffer = 3.8 oz.

9mm buffer = 5.5 oz.

HTH



we can also add to this list.

The H2 buffer, The H3 buffer, The 9mm A buffer, the 9mm B buffer, and the 9mm X buffer.

now, lets make this MORE confusing... shall we?


have a good one.

Stainless

Link Posted: 8/11/2004 8:58:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stainless:

Originally Posted By gaijin:
CAR buffer = 2.9 oz.

H buffer = 3.8 oz.

9mm buffer = 5.5 oz.

HTH



we can also add to this list.

The H2 buffer, The H3 buffer, The 9mm A buffer, the 9mm B buffer, and the 9mm X buffer.

now, lets make this MORE confusing... shall we?


have a good one.

Stainless




OK

2H = 4.6 oz.
3H = 5.4 oz.

A= 6.3 oz.
B= 7.1 oz.
X= 7.9 oz.

Knowledge is power.

What's your point?
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 9:17:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2004 9:22:15 AM EST by Stainless]
Gaijin... EXCELLENT post.

i was gonna sum it up like this... because i have this saved as a word doc.

BUFFER WEIGHTS

Rifle - 5.15oz, made of aluminum

CAR - 2.9oz, made of aluminum

H - 3.77oz

H2 - 4.7oz

H3 – 5.6oz

9mm - 5.47oz, made of steel


Special purpose buffers designed for suppressed SMG's or 9mm carbines using high pressure (+P+) ammunition

9mm A - 6.3oz CAR style buffer

9mm B - 7.1oz CAR style buffer

9mm X - 7.9oz CAR style buffer
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 9:22:38 AM EST
Now what I want to know is where can I get the full range of buffer weights to trouble shoot different combos? I never heard of these other 9mm buffers before this!
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 9:52:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Now what I want to know is where can I get the full range of buffer weights to trouble shoot different combos? I never heard of these other 9mm buffers before this!



#1 to be totally honest with you, between Gaijin and myself, i think we have the buffer weights pretty much covered

#2 here is my PERSONAL idea/theory. please allow me to freestyle with this thought. and if anyone wants to add/subtract/disagree, PLEASE feel free to do so:

why do we even have the carbine, the H, and the H2 buffer? the AR rifle is a SYSTEM, it was ORIGINALLY designed with an M-16 bolt carrier, which has a certain weight (i can't remember) and a rifle length buffer, 5.14 ounces; also with a 20" barrel, and a RIFLE length gas tube.

NOW, what did we do? We CUT the barrel. SHORTENED the gas system, thereby INCREASING the gas pressure, as well as, cutting up the bolt carrier (so it won't trip the auto sear), making the bolt carrier LIGHTER. Then, we LIGHTENED the buffer. WTF?!?!

Because of the above modifications, we have made the gas impulse STRONGER, while at the same time making the weight of the parts this short gas system acts on LIGHTER.

I "think" we should have made them HEAVIER.

I have been reading ChenLee's posts about his experiments with: different buffers (different weights), different bolt carriers (different weights and different designs, ie. LMT enhanced carrier), and different gas tubes (fat boy, pig tail, standard). It has been VERY informative. It seems as if the heavier components slow down the whole system, thereby lowering recoil, and POSSIBLY lessening the wear on the weapon itself.

The point of my story: When the ban sunsets and I can finally get a Magpul Stock, I am going to START with the X Buffer and a Young manufactiring chrome NM bolt carrier (which is around the weight of an m16 carrier), and work my way DOWN in weight, NOT up. If the weapon is reliable with the X buffer, and the young carrier, I am done, because I know I will be saving wear and tear on the weapon.

Try and find some of Chen's posts, they are arround somewhere.

OK, feel free to comment, I welcome it.

have a good one.

Stainless
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 9:58:06 AM EST
here is Chen Lee's thread (SMGLee)

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=167694&w=searchPop

this is my favorite quote:


originally posted by SMGLee
regular everything took all ammo. with noticeable increase in recoil against the fatboy, LMT and 9mm buffer. this setup is almost like shooting a 22mag. pretty freaking cool.




have a good one.

Stainless
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 11:24:42 AM EST
Quarterbore, Stainless..........

very interesting coverage on a subject sure to be center stage once everyone starts their modifications next month (boy- that was assumptive, huh?)

The last thing you would want is to either find out at the range or -worse when you really needed it- that your conversion wasn't functional because of buffer weight, or type.


The spring subject didn't come up though. Given that I am esspecially fond of the sound/feel of my 'old' buffer/buffer spring set-up, can I expect that to change much?

nothing quite like that Kaachhing, Kaachhing with each round!

Link Posted: 8/12/2004 3:05:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By redfisher:
The spring subject didn't come up though. Given that I am esspecially fond of the sound/feel of my 'old' buffer/buffer spring set-up, can I expect that to change much?

nothing quite like that Kaachhing, Kaachhing with each round!




nope, all the buffers we have listed run with the standard spring.

S
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 3:11:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2004 3:11:51 PM EST by Quarterbore]
You know however... different springs would also impact the performance so just imagine 5 or 10 different springs to put into this mix!
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 3:14:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
You know however... different springs would also impact the performance so just imagine 5 or 10 different springs to put into this mix!



Then I would quit, sell the AR and go buy an AK or a FAL.


S
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 3:29:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2004 3:29:41 PM EST by Not_A_Llama]
for whatever it's worth.. putting a rifle spring in my carbine tube seemed to have a strong recoil-reducing effect. Also slams home with more authority.

YMMV; it's a cheap experiment to conduct yourself, though.
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 7:35:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2004 7:37:40 AM EST by Quarterbore]
I got the H Buffer from BravoCompanyUSA and the Colt H-Buffer is about 3.7-oz on a rather inacurate weight watchers scale while the Buffer that came with the ARmalite AR-10 Collapsable stock weights about 5.25-oz! So, regarding the posts above, how does someone buy one of the 3H buffers as described on Page 1?

I am trying to keep most of the posts on the other thread so please see:

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=184139&page=2

Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:11:54 AM EST
As long as we're on the topic of heavy buffers, I'd like to mention that we at MGI have the RateReducing/RecoilReducing Buffer(RRB) which has a mechanical plunger and sliding tungsten weight system inside. This creates counter-motion to the reciprocating masses of the bolt/carrier group, and vastly improves controllability of the weapon far beyond normal heavy buffers. Previously known as the Counterpoise System, the RRB is the next generation of improvements beyond the Counterpoise. Automatically self-adjusts rate of fire reduction, according to the barrel length/caliber used. Excellent for 5.56, and all the other calibers too. This is the most "universal" buffer system for any caliber used in the AR platform. Including the "biggies" like the .458 Socom and .50 Beowulf. Also great with suppressors. One buffer for all!! Drop-in installation in your buffer tube, with no drilling or other mods to the gun. Carbine or rifle length RRB are available

It is not a "cheap" system, but WOW, it does work great!
If you are really looking for the best, then the MGI RRB is it.
It is not just the "meat", it's the "motion"!!!!

Email me with questions.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 6:42:33 PM EST
tag
Top Top