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Posted: 10/1/2005 5:58:36 PM EDT
I'm sure all of us has had the experience of having some tyro at the range proudly showing of his AR loaded with cheap knock-offs of proven gear, or older items than are far inferior to currently produced equipment...so, do you usually keep your mouth shut, aside from a "that's nice" comment, or do you tell the guy the truth?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:59:57 PM EDT
At least the person has a rifle. Half or more here couldn't say that much!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:00:10 PM EDT
If it makes him happy who am I to knock it. I won't put that crap on my AR's though.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:00:44 PM EDT
I see no point in pissing in someone's Cheerios.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:05:20 PM EDT
I tend not to attempt to piss off total stangers who happen to be carrying a weapon. Old equipemnt, knock off or otherwise, will still kill zombies dead. Now if it is a friend who is over to shoot out back, game on!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:11:37 PM EDT
Don't be critical of someone else's bling unless you're volunteering to buy them new stuff. Now, if they make a statement, you are obligated to politely correct any misinformation. But if what they have works for them, great, it was their money spent.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:14:27 PM EDT
I try to stay as positive as I can, offering advise, until I met a man at the range last year that just paid $275 (gulp!!!) for a Hipoint 9mm at a gun show.

Ever other round was a FTF. I cleaned it for him, lubed, took the lube off, more lube and still that same FTF. He said he bought it for protection.

I finally had to tell him for $50 more he could have found a good used Ruger and even a good used Smith. I also told him not to depend on this pistol for protection.

'Bronc
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:14:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Repete:
I see no point in pissing in someone's Cheerios.


+1.
Unless they ask for an opinion on a piece of gear, to each his own.

You wouldn't walk up to a stranger and tell them you didn't like their suit, would you?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:15:15 PM EDT
Moot. Erm, I mean mute.

G

PS - who am I to judge another's weapon?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:18:06 PM EDT
I'm just happy to see other people excited about their AR. It might be the most beautiful rifle to them and they may think that mine looks like crap. It is just nice to see other ARs at the range.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:22:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macros73:
Don't be critical of someone else's bling unless you're volunteering to buy them new stuff. Now, if they make a statement, you are obligated to politely correct any misinformation. But if what they have works for them, great, it was their money spent.



+1

That's really the truth. I have a cheap tasco on my DPMS 308. I know it's a cheap shitty scope. And I've gotten quite a few snide remarks about it. But I have rent,car payment, insurance, etc to pay, and the $700 trijicon I lust over just isn't high on the list - no matter how bad I want it. (Hell, the $1000 for the rifle took forever for me to scrape up)

"Don't give me your opinion unless you plan on solving the problem for me"
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:27:41 PM EDT
It took me over a year to build my AR, I can't affoard a decent optic, so I'll live with iron sights until I can affoard one... that or I'll buy more guns. Everything else on my gun was pretty high quality, I'm willing to wait until I can affoard "the shit"... some people aren't patient.

It it works, I don't see a problem. I doubt I'll ever own an EOtech, ACOG or whatnot, maybe if I hit the lotto, but I can't justify it now. That's a third of a .50 BMG, and they'll be banning those before they ban an ACOG. Iron sights will due for me. Unless you're using and abusing it, I don't have a problem with budget accessories... it could be worse... they could be bringing their airsoft AR to the range.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:30:50 PM EDT
No, unless they are trying to sell you on how pimp their shizz be.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:38:36 PM EDT
In those situations I'd say if your opinion hasn't specifically been asked for then it's probably better to just mind your own business. You wouldn't just walk up to some guy at the mall that you don't know and say "Your wife is the nastiest looking thing I've ever seen. I bet she smells bad when you get her home too." If that's what he likes let him have it. If you've got better then just be happy for yourself.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BH1:
In those situations I'd say if your opinion hasn't specifically been asked for then it's probably better to just mind your own business. You wouldn't just walk up to some guy at the mall that you don't know and say "Your wife is the nastiest looking thing I've ever seen. I bet she smells bad when you get her home too." If that's what he likes let him have it. If you've got better then just be happy for yourself.


Well, I doubt they'll turn it on you... even so, we all know they'd miss if they had a cheap knock-off red-dot sight, and they couldn't see you unless it were a Surefire lighting system and their Wolf surely would cause their ejector to break in half and leave the casing stuck in the chamber after the first shot.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:56:16 PM EDT
I always give a good compliment.

Many people can only dream of the high-end stuff.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:09:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 7:09:59 PM EDT by Stickman]
There is a HUGE difference between older gear, and cheap gear. Some of the most squared away guys I know have beat up older looking gear.


If someone wants to use cheap gear, its none of my concern unless they work with me, and/ or unless they are going to depend on it for real world use. 99% of the people here don't carry a weapon for real, so its kind of a moot point the way I look at it.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:16:18 PM EDT
I have to deal with this a fair amount as I work at a local shop/range. I usually just tell them it's nice unless they're being a real dick and shoving it in everyone's face. The harder part for me is to sell someone what we have on the shelf instead of what I know they could get better/cheaper on the internet. For example, I sold a guy today an Aimpoint M3, ARMS 22M68 w/spacer, ARMS 40L. Now I know I'd rather have a Larue mount or at the very least a cantilever spacer for the ARMS and either a Troy rear sight or LMT cut carry handle, but he's prolly never even heard of Larue and will never know the difference. I just can't help sometimes feeling like I'm cheating those people. As for my gear, I sold my carbine w/Aimpoint, Surefire, VFG, and built a nice 16" A2 carbine w/Trijicon sights. KISS is the name of the game for me...at least until I get some more training under my belt.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:18:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
I'm sure all of us has had the experience of having some tyro at the range proudly showing of his AR loaded with cheap knock-offs of proven gear, or older items than are far inferior to currently produced equipment...so, do you usually keep your mouth shut, aside from a "that's nice" comment, or do you tell the guy the truth?



Ya mean like this:



The pic is not mine. I found it while google-ing for inspiration.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:25:44 PM EDT
What I mean is pointing out stuff that just won't work, like:

Having a bipod on a non free-float barrel

Having a high-power scope mounted on top of a carry handle with no cheekpiece on the stock

Having Airsoft stuff on a real rifle

Cheap plastic magazines (like those early transparent ones)

Aluminum free-float handguards with no ventilation holes

Those (new) plastic railed handguards

And so on

*****

Hey I've been there too, and I'm torn between being nice and getting them pointed in the right direction...

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:29:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 7:29:45 PM EDT by eye_spy]
Keep quiet unless asked for my opinin .... except when he is the bragging AH type. But I will generally just nod my head and smile.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:33:10 PM EDT
You meant if someone is firing something other than a Colt?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:36:13 PM EDT
I usually try to mind my own friggin' business. If you don't like the fact that I haven't invested big money in my ARs, tough shit. I have the cheapest piece of shit red dot style optic on my M4gery. One day a piece of it came off and hit me in the glasses when I was shooting it. But you know what? The damn thing still was hitting what I was putting the dot on. I am sure if anybody wants your opinion they will choke it out of you. Bottom line: if somebody wants advice, they will ask for it. On the other hand if somebody is trying to pass off their no-name shit as high speed stuff then you are allowed to heckle them.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:36:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
I'm torn between being nice and getting them pointed in the right direction...



I think you have to evaluate the situation and decide what the owners intent may be. If they are happy about their new toy then let them enjoy it. At the least you can give a "I'm glad you're happy with your choice" and let them go on their way. If you feel like they are really asking "Did I do OK? Can you help me?" Then patting them on the back with a "that's nice now go play outside" is leading them in the wrong direction. See what I mean?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:04:11 PM EDT
Wow. ARFCOM guys who do not criticize...at least not in person...

Based on board behavior, I'm not sue I believe it...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Repete:
I see no point in pissing in someone's Cheerios.

Me, either. Who cares if a guy doesn't spend every last dime he has on the latest whiz-bang doodad for his rifle? If a guy can get the gear that fills his needs without paying a premium sum for it, or even by getting ahold of (dare I say it?) "out-dated" equipment, then good for him. Besides, a lot of AR owners knowledge of AR gear is what they see in mail-order catalogs, and just don't know that there's better stuff to be had.


As Stickman said though: if the guy's part of a working TEAM, however, everybody in the team has a stake in how well the guy's stuff works.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:13:55 PM EDT
I'd stand mute.

Not gonna go out of my way to harass a guy because of what he buys.

Even if he asked my opinion of his gun, I doubt I'd slam him/it.

It's entirely possible that is all the guy can afford.

I'm just waiting - I have a Fobus HGs on my Colt - considered about buying MI or YHM, but just decided to see how tight the Fobus fit. They're tight...very tight.

Just waiting for someone to slam me...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:18:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
What I mean is pointing out stuff that just won't work, like:

Having a bipod on a non free-float barrel

Having a high-power scope mounted on top of a carry handle with no cheekpiece on the stock

Having Airsoft stuff on a real rifle

Cheap plastic magazines (like those early transparent ones)

Aluminum free-float handguards with no ventilation holes

Those (new) plastic railed handguards

And so on

*****

Hey I've been there too, and I'm torn between being nice and getting them pointed in the right direction...




That's some pretty trivial crap to actually worry about (except the Airsoft stuff)... What do you mean the stuff "won't work"?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:02:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:58:26 AM EDT by dalesimpson]
Didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings, or kick any sand into any manginas.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:10:45 PM EDT
Hey, at least they are on the right path. let them learn from there own mistakes, when a cheap part breaks
then they will buy another, hopefully it will be a quality part.
as far as old parts or out-dated hop-ups, hey if they still work.............. there is a reason why it is still being used.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:28:35 PM EDT
Would you insult someone for buying a chevy instead of a cadilac?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:32:36 PM EDT
I mind my own business..........almost all the time, shooting or otherwise.

I realize that some guys might have just barely scratched together the cash to buy the rifle, and might not be able to afford to buy all the HSLD gear they want. They therefore go looking for cheaper substitutes that look or function similarly and are happy until they can afford to buy what they wanted in the first place.

How do I know this?

I bought a $30 BSA red dot at Wally*World a year or two ago......I now have an EOTech. Granted, it was a B-day present, but I had cash in hand ready to buy it a week earlier.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:33:21 PM EDT
And you sound like a fucking Nazi to me, dalesimpson

*****

I think this is a perfectly valid topic. I have seen many, many threads where guys go at each other hammer and tongs when it comes to gear...

VLTOR vs. LMT

LMT vs. MagPul

KAC vs. Larue

Larue vs. Daniel Defence

SIR vs. Larue

Larue vs. ARMS

Aimpoint vs. Eotech

Nightforce vs. Leupold

16" vs. 20"

16" vs. 14.5"

Colt vs. everyone else

And so on...

All of these examples have led to personal attacks and casting of aspersions; now, you tell me that you never critisize other peoples's gear?

Hard to believe unless:

You can't do it to someones face, but feel enabled once safely anonymous behind a computer keyboard; or

You think those people with poor gear choice are just way behind the curve when it comes to AR gear.

I can get behind the later, because I was there at one point. So were you. None of us leapt onto the scene fully formed, like Aphrodite springing forth from Zeus' brow...

I have learned many, many things about the AR here at ARFCOM. Where else would I find out such stuff? From the military? Nah; unless you are a HSLD kind of guy, you just take what they issue and that's all you know. From a gun magazine? Nah. They say everything is great...at least everything advertised in their rag.

But I really do feel torn when I see someone with a doozie, like tricked out Mini-14, or an SKS with a scope on the dust cover.

But its not always like that. Today I went to the NORCAL ARFCOM shoot, and all the guys there had great ARs. No two were alike, but they were all good builds; they all made design sense. Why? Because they got Facted up here. But not everyone is so fortunate.



Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:42:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 9:46:13 PM EDT by Hired_Gun]

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
I'm sure all of us has had the experience of having some tyro at the range proudly showing of his AR loaded with cheap knock-offs of proven gear, or older items than are far inferior to currently produced equipment...so, do you usually keep your mouth shut, aside from a "that's nice" comment, or do you tell the guy the truth?



I've been lucky enough to attend quite a few public carbine classes where you see all types of people with all types of gear. Some people have really shitty gear while other people have $2000 slung across their chest. I've seen some impressive skills displayed with cheap gear, and incredibly poor skills displayed with good gear so clearly gear doesnt make the man.

What seperates the good gear from the bad is 5000 rounds later and your carbine has hit a few doors, rammed into walls and been dropped. Durability costs, but some people like cheap gear because they arent "hardcore" about shooting, it isnt their job or they simply cannot afford something better.

So no I dont take it upon myself to judge someones gear. I dont know their reasons, so I'm not qualified to give an opinion. Of course if they ask, that is a totally different story, and I wouldnt say your gears, I would just say what I would buy and like
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:57:14 PM EDT
I have a 20" A3 Bushmaster with a cheap plastic handguard and verticle grip on it.

I know its cheap because I bought it. And no I wont be taking it with me when I deploy. I bought it becuase it was CHEAP. Just as you dont see the point in not buying the best for your rifle, I dont see the point in buying the same thing that costs 3 times as much when all Im going to do is punch holes in paper.

Honestly yeah its nice to have all that high speed milspec shit, but most likely my life isnt gonna depend on whether or not I spent 80 bucks for a rail system or 300. Id rather buy ammo and use my rifle instead of taking pictures of it and showing everyone on the internet what a expensive paperweight looks like.

And for those with those nice rifles and expensive parts, more power to you. I dont want to sound like Im hating on you for it but I dont understand why you would even try to point out to someone that they dont have the best accessories for their rifle. I could point out my house is bigger than yours or my girlfriend is better looking but who gives a shit we are at the range to shoot not belittle the few of us who actually own firearms.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:18:54 PM EDT
The reason you tell them their gear won't work is that they bought it thinking it would.

Some guy shows you OEM stock AR. That's okay.

Some guy shows you his AR with a scope perched way high up on the carry handle and a bipod on the handguard. So, he has aspirations of precision shooting. Which he won't be able to do with no proper cheek weld and a shifting POI.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:36:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 11:01:20 PM EDT by SIG_220]

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
What I mean is pointing out stuff that just won't work, like:

Having a bipod on a non free-float barrel

Having a high-power scope mounted on top of a carry handle with no cheekpiece on the stock

Having Airsoft stuff on a real rifle

Cheap plastic magazines (like those early transparent ones)

Aluminum free-float handguards with no ventilation holes

Those (new) plastic railed handguards

And so on

*****

Hey I've been there too, and I'm torn between being nice and getting them pointed in the right direction...




There's nothing wrong with a bipod mounted to normal plastic handguards. I know it causes vibration but it also provides a steady base. I don't have a bipod mounted like that but I've shot many guns that do. There are many rifles that were designed to have a bipod even when the barrel isn't floated. A Fal is a good example. I understand if you mean when people clamp the bipod right on their barrel.

To each there own.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:41:04 PM EDT
Chimp dude I TOTALLY agree with you (except I would never buy a cheap fore grip.... I got the cheap red dot ) I am just ecstatic that my AR doesn't wobble and jam like the piece of shit "Mil-Spec" I was issued. I know my BSA reflex site was only $40 and probably does not match the durability of an ACOG (did I say probably??) but I do know I do not do any flying rolls to get into my POV and low crawl back to my gun safe after a gruelling day of spending $100 worth fo ammo to relieve recent frustrations and enjoy the basic freedom of killing black dots on the range.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 11:19:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
The reason you tell them their gear won't work is that they bought it thinking it would.



Unsolicited I think you would just piss someone off. If like in your example of the scope being mounted too high they are complaining or ask for advise then it is ok to give your opinion. However if its mags or something else like a stock and they are happy with it what the fuck business what it is to anyone else unless you are just trying to make yourself feel better and then you would just be the range .
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:06:24 AM EDT
most people I know take pride , showing the weapons they have , or come out from the start and tell me this is a peice of crap , I always try to encourage , and not put down anyones weapon and I am glad they own whatever they have, We all have to stick togather, as we live and learn from the time we start learning about weapons , we grow, learn and inprove our skills, the taste for better weapons and parts comes with it, ( so I won't tell someone thier gun sucks I'am glad they have an interest in weapons but I may try to guide someone by showing him or her a new direction, WE ALL have different Taste and thats part of life
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:12:03 AM EDT
DUH. make sure you can SHOOT BETTER before you start insulting someone elses gear or giving advice. If you open your mouth then he SHOOTS BETTER THEN YOU, youre goimg to be a first class DUMBASS. If youre a lousy shooter, youre better off with cheap gear anyway. DUH.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:35:34 AM EDT
It's funny when "gear queers" go out of their way to educate people.


Many times it sounds as if they are trying to justify their purchases by putting down your equipment.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:54:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
There is a HUGE difference between older gear, and cheap gear. Some of the most squared away guys I know have beat up older looking gear.


If someone wants to use cheap gear, its none of my concern unless they work with me, and/ or unless they are going to depend on it for real world use. 99% of the people here don't carry a weapon for real, so its kind of a moot point the way I look at it.




So true, but to add to this. Spend your money as you see fit but spend once & make it right the 1st time or spend almost twice as much doing it right at a later date!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:54:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USNTopGun378:
DUH. make sure you can SHOOT BETTER before you start insulting someone elses gear or giving advice. If you open your mouth then he SHOOTS BETTER THEN YOU, youre goimg to be a first class DUMBASS. If youre a lousy shooter, youre better off with cheap gear anyway. DUH.



Right, don't be on of 'those' guys at the range. Keep you opinions to yourself unless asked.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:19:39 AM EDT
If it works for them, more power to 'em.

I'm sure a lot of people here don't like my choices for my AR equipment. It works for me.

I've thought long and hard picking my equipment. I got the best I can afford. I'm sure someone without the more expensive equipment thought about their choices and spend the money they could afford for the best equipment they could afford.

Less expensive or older equipment doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Even the new, expensive stuff breaks and fails.

I'm not close the being an equipment expert.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:04:30 AM EDT
I stand there pointing and laughing till everyone else at the range joins in encircling him and calling him a poor dumb bastard till he runs off crying like a little bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why the hell would an adult care what others thought of his weapon anyway????
Oh and as a rule I dont make fun of people holding a gun....

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:06:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
I'm sure all of us has had the experience of having some tyro at the range proudly showing of his AR loaded with cheap knock-offs of proven gear, or older items than are far inferior to currently produced equipment...so, do you usually keep your mouth shut, aside from a "that's nice" comment, or do you tell the guy the truth?



I may ask, "Did you consider XYZ?" If I get the $$$ as the answer there is no need to go there any more.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:13:54 AM EDT
BTW - I also feel if they are shooting they are brethern with a common cause. Why go to or make a sore when there is no need. If they ask me then fine.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:20:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 7:21:47 AM EDT by s1rGr1nG0]

Originally Posted By Zardoz:

Originally Posted By Repete:
I see no point in pissing in someone's Cheerios.

Me, either. Who cares if a guy doesn't spend every last dime he has on the latest whiz-bang doodad for his rifle? If a guy can get the gear that fills his needs without paying a premium sum for it, or even by getting ahold of (dare I say it?) "out-dated" equipment, then good for him. Besides, a lot of AR owners knowledge of AR gear is what they see in mail-order catalogs, and just don't know that there's better stuff to be had. on ar15.com


As Stickman said though: if the guy's part of a working TEAM, however, everybody in the team has a stake in how well the guy's stuff works.



Fixed it for ya!!

Myself included!

ETA: typo
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:28:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DefTanker:
I know my BSA reflex site was only $40 and probably does not match the durability of an ACOG (did I say probably??) .



DUDE!!! Why yall be hatin on da' BSA??? For $40.00 a pop you can keep a spare or two in your range bag.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:30:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dobber:
If it makes him happy who am I to knock it. I won't put that crap on my AR's though.



+1. Want to be that guy that turns somebody off to shooting?
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