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Posted: 4/11/2017 9:37:47 AM EDT
The sort that use 0.625 gas blocks.

When hot they ................ ?
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:40:13 AM EDT
suffer in consistency
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:44:10 AM EDT
They don't build muscle mass
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:44:53 AM EDT
.....Burn.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:48:58 AM EDT
I bought a RRA light weight chrome lined 16" barrel for my "ultimate carbine" build a few years ago.

Never any issues with it.  It is free floated, too.

For what it's worth, I've never shot more than 100 rounds through it in one range session.  I've usually got a couple other rifles and a few pistols to shoot, too, so I don't just shoot one gun all morning/afternoon.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:51:57 AM EDT
the rifle was designed from the ground up to be lightweight

once the bugs were worked out, the M16 worked well in Vietnam combat

My SHTF carbine has a LW Daniel Defence barrel

It works fine.


.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:01:23 AM EDT
Nothing is wrong with them OP...just don't expect an MG barrel. I have an SP1 with a slim barrel profile which kicks ass and my HD rifle is rocking a 16" DD pencil profile barrel which it's had for about 8 years. Both shoot fine I just don't intend to do mag dumps with them or spend an hour putting 4000 rounds down range (yes I'm exaggerating but hopefully you know what I mean).
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:06:08 AM EDT
So on a 3-day, 2,000rnd carbine class it should be fine maintaining its POA/POI?
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:10:46 AM EDT
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Quoted:
So on a 3-day, 2,000rnd carbine class it should be fine maintaining its POA/POI?
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They should be as consistent as any "govt" profile . . .
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:16:06 AM EDT
Nothing Wrong with them
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:36:01 AM EDT
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Quoted:
So on a 3-day, 2,000rnd carbine class it should be fine maintaining its POA/POI?
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if you heat up the barrel it will shift, but in my experience it doesn't/ wont matter for a "defensive" rifle.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 11:03:04 AM EDT
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Quoted:
So on a 3-day, 2,000rnd carbine class it should be fine maintaining its POA/POI?
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There will probably be more user induced inconsistencies if your doing drills up close to notice a 1moa poi shift
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 11:18:56 AM EDT
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Quoted:


There will probably be more user induced inconsistencies if your doing drills up close to notice a 1moa poi shift
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I would agree with this 100%. By the end of the day when you are tired and worn out it won't be your barrel failing you trust me.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 11:39:42 AM EDT
I'm a huge fan of lightweight barrels. The trade is they don't always hold POI as well and they are slightly less accurate. Get a carbine that holds 1.5-2 minutes radius from POA whether hot or cold, suppressed or unsuppressed and you're good. With a light barrel that means you will usually want a higher quality barrel to do the same thing a cheaper heavy barrel will do.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 11:54:55 AM EDT
One other thing to consider is a new lightweight profle, such as the BA Hanson profile and BCM ELW profile.  These profiles minimize the downsides to using lightweight barrels, especially POA/POI shift as they heat up.  They also tend to do fairly well with suppressors, compared to other pencil profiles and even gov profiles.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 12:29:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 12:37:42 PM EDT
My 14.5 FN/spikes chf LW is super accurate and holds up well. It's on my do it all carbine I use it in 3gun and it's also a go bag gun.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 1:08:52 PM EDT
Cook offs in large amounts of FA shooting.  CD said he had one once with a govt' profile M4...  I think it was.  

Otherwise for most of us, probably nothing.  I've had two LW barrels and one was really accurate and the other was acceptable, but shifted POI from round to round more than I liked.  So does my Govt' 20"er.  My HBARs don't shift POI barely at all and are accurate.  But too heavy.  
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 2:18:29 PM EDT
It's all trades.

But you have to use an M4 hard to get a cook off.

FWIW light barrels cool faster too.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 2:23:53 PM EDT
Thickness of the barrel walls is the main turnoff for me. But for somebody who isnt doing fudd mag dumps into dirt, it's going to be a non issue. Sometimes MILSPEC goes full fudd, so I gotta have that SOCOM profile.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 2:54:21 PM EDT
everyone should be forced to run a 20" HBAR in these classes the first time. then they won't complaint about anything, ever again.

plenty of skinny barrels in expensive rifles. the FN FNC, FN SCAR, FN FAL...lots of FN stuff there.

i see no reason for heavy barrels for carbines.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 2:57:59 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Thickness of the barrel walls is the main turnoff for me. But for somebody who isnt doing fudd mag dumps into dirt, it's going to be a non issue. Sometimes MILSPEC goes full fudd, so I gotta have that SOCOM profile.
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I bet it's more accurate then any of the govt' profiles you had, eh?  Personally I think a .750 all the way is probably a good compromise, but very few people make a barrel like that.  Well, that I know of.  But so many people make barrels now.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 3:05:48 PM EDT
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Quoted:


There will probably be more user induced inconsistencies if your doing drills up close to notice a 1moa poi shift
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Absolutely this. Even if you got the barrel hot enough to cause a shift in POA/POI during a carbine course it would nearly impossible to tell. What distances will you be shorting at? Probably 60yards and closer. You might start at 100yds to verify zero but every carbine course I have been to the majority was within 35yds and on the move and numerous positions and under stress.

You should be fine op.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 3:08:16 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I bet it's more accurate then any of the govt' profiles you had, eh?  Personally I think a .750 all the way is probably a good compromise, but very few people make a barrel like that.  Well, that I know of.  But so many people make barrels now.
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Quoted:
Thickness of the barrel walls is the main turnoff for me. But for somebody who isnt doing fudd mag dumps into dirt, it's going to be a non issue. Sometimes MILSPEC goes full fudd, so I gotta have that SOCOM profile.
I bet it's more accurate then any of the govt' profiles you had, eh?  Personally I think a .750 all the way is probably a good compromise, but very few people make a barrel like that.  Well, that I know of.  But so many people make barrels now.
Honestly I haven't been able to tell the difference between a Colt govt pro and a Colt SOCOM pro on accuracy differences. I have 3 uppers left currently and 2 are Colt SOCOM's, 1 is a Colt govt pro 10.3.

Not sure if that's even a fair comparison because of bbl length differences but I will be sure to let you know what I do find.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 3:42:38 PM EDT
so here's a question;

what factors contribute MOST to barrel whip?

overall profile?
profile at the muzzle?
metal used?
barrel length?
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 3:45:13 PM EDT
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Quoted:
so here's a question;

what factors contribute MOST to barrel whip?

overall profile?
profile at the muzzle?
metal used?
barrel length?
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I would say barrel thickness and barrel temperature. How compacted the granular structure of the steel is. And steel used.
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:59:08 PM EDT
Always been a fan of the .Gov profile. I like a little meat on the bone...
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:32:22 PM EDT
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Quoted:


I would say barrel thickness and barrel temperature. How compacted the granular structure of the steel is. And steel used.
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The thermal properties of steel are all pretty much the same, as are the elastic properties....
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 10:33:43 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Always been a fan of the .Gov profile. I like a little meat on the bone...
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only the "meat" is in the wrong place to do much good....
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 11:30:40 PM EDT
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Quoted:
only the "meat" is in the wrong place to do much good....
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Always been a fan of the .Gov profile. I like a little meat on the bone...
only the "meat" is in the wrong place to do much good....
Never had issues with rapid fire and POI Shift... can't say the same with light weight barrels.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 1:09:55 AM EDT
Nothing is wrong with lightweight barrels if they are done right.  Faxon seems to be doing them right.  Their Gunner has become my favorite barrel.  It's government profile in back without all the useless weight in the front.  I don't abuse my rifles, and I'm not into mag dumps, but so far the Faxon has done everything my heavy barrel has done, minus the boat anchor.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 7:36:08 AM EDT
It baffles me about all the talk about weight.  99% of us are not on patrol 12 hours a day.  I would carry a few more ounces using a standard or heavy barrel.  Accuracy is high on my CTQ list.

mm
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 8:35:34 AM EDT
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Quoted:
It baffles me about all the talk about weight.  99% of us are not on patrol 12 hours a day.  I would carry a few more ounces using a standard or heavy barrel.  Accuracy is high on my CTQ list.

mm
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Depends on use case. Home Defense, light weight barrels do not meaningfully affect accuracy.

There are endless use cases of course. General purpose. Home Defense. Building clearing. PDW. SPR. ETC
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 12:24:24 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It baffles me about all the talk about weight.  99% of us are not on patrol 12 hours a day.  I would carry a few more ounces using a standard or heavy barrel.  Accuracy is high on my CTQ list.

mm
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very true about patrol hours but when you are out practicing for a few ours that extra weight of the HBAR is going to affect things.  just dont see any need for all that extra weight on a barrel.

i sure dont see how the GI profile and heavy in the front does shit for accuracy when hot. all you are doing is putting more weight on the end of the barrel, making it droop more when heated up.

maybe i'll put a scope on my BA skinny and shoot it cold for groups, then heat it up with 4 mags of rapid fire and try group it.....
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 6:05:44 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It baffles me about all the talk about weight.  99% of us are not on patrol 12 hours a day.  I would carry a few more ounces using a standard or heavy barrel.  Accuracy is high on my CTQ list.

mm
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I'm in the process of changing out my DDm4 fsp quad rail and the gov. profile barrel that was under it to a 16 inch faxon gunner/centurion CMR m lok combo right now for two main reasons - both of which have nothing to do with my strength or endurance.

#1 - I want my wife to be able to handle the weapon more effectively by removing the unnecessary weight on the front end.

#2 - I wanted to switch to an m lok system or quad rail.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 8:35:20 PM EDT
only time youll see any difference is when you use a can, poi will shift more compared to a heavier barrel.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 8:48:10 PM EDT
For a rifle intended to be carried around alot I really like the pencil profile. It is less weight and also balances much better that an M4 or HBAR profile. The issued M16A4 I had at my first unit was horribly front heavy with the barrel profile combined with the quadrail. The M4 I got later on wasn't much better. Granted quadrails are old tech now but still its .625 for me unless i'm building a rifle intended to be fired off a bipod.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 8:50:10 PM EDT
I have one lightweight carbine I have just because it's ultra light and easy to pack around. It's stayed accurate and does it's job well. I also don't bumpfire it. I have barrel in the garage that is a lightweight and it was bumpfired till the handguards melted and gas tube was glowing. One of the WAHTF members fried it and I've been meaning to put it back on a upper and use it as a truck gun build. Just need an A2 upper receiver to go with it.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 9:42:50 PM EDT
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For a rifle intended to be carried around alot I really like the pencil profile. It is less weight and also balances much better that an M4 or HBAR profile. The issued M16A4 I had at my first unit was horribly front heavy with the barrel profile combined with the quadrail. The M4 I got later on wasn't much better. Granted quadrails are old tech now but still its .625 for me unless i'm building a rifle intended to be fired off a bipod.
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Did you have a bunch of stuff on it?
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 9:54:45 PM EDT
I have had a 4150 pencil barrel from Bushmaster for over 5 years now. Out of my other two 1/9's, it's the most accurate and match ammo will give you nearly moa. Nothing wrong with saving weight, but I also prefer my government medium contours and 1/7s.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 10:48:06 PM EDT
@HighpowerRifleBrony

No I did not. Every issued weapon I had I stripped off everything I could. No accessories other than sling and optic. I never was required to have a PEQ-15.  Although still being poorly balanced, my M4 was kinda cool. it had a 5 digit grey lower with N stock and a newer black upper.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 11:00:45 PM EDT
The lightest profile I own is a Faxon 14.5 midlength pencil. As far as I know, it's about the absolute lightest profile available and its THIN. Like .550 most of its length except the .625 gas block journal. Much thinner than a standard lightweight profile. Its ridiculously lightweight, but it heats up very quickly and POI does shift. I really don't mind the shift, though. For it's use, the 1 moa impact shift means absolutely nothing. Also cools down much faster than my SOCOM profile 14.5.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 11:01:19 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It baffles me about all the talk about weight.  99% of us are not on patrol 12 hours a day.  I would carry a few more ounces using a standard or heavy barrel.  Accuracy is high on my CTQ list.

mm
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That quote can be flipped just as accurately, 99% of us are not going to be in a sustained firefight of both the duration and distance where a heavy barrel would matter.  Why carry extra ounces for the less than a mag, room distance HD (or looter-SHTF whatever)  scenario?
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 11:32:12 PM EDT
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Never had issues with rapid fire and POI Shift... can't say the same with light weight barrels.
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Quoted:
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Always been a fan of the .Gov profile. I like a little meat on the bone...
only the "meat" is in the wrong place to do much good....
Never had issues with rapid fire and POI Shift... can't say the same with light weight barrels.
Gov/M4 and lightweight/A1s are the same profile under the handguards, where it makes the most difference. Extra weight at the muzzle makes no difference to heat buildup/dissipation etc. The highest temperature and highest stress point in an AR barrel is a few inches in front of the chamber, where an M4 profile is the thinnest.

As for the OP's question, nothing at all is wrong with lightweight barrels, as long as they're made of suitable steel. 416 Stainless is not suitable.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 12:36:12 AM EDT
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Quoted:
It baffles me about all the talk about weight.  99% of us are not on patrol 12 hours a day.  I would carry a few more ounces using a standard or heavy barrel.  Accuracy is high on my CTQ list.

mm
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I run drills and shoot positionals out to 300yds with my lightweight barrels engaging my 10" steel plate. Zero problems and zero shift in accuracy even after running through a full chest rig of ammo (3-4 mags). Why would you carry more weight when the LW barrels are just as effective for practical use at practical ranges?

Now if you want a precision gun like an SPR, sure go for a heavier profile. For a fighting or duty rifle, I will never go back from a LW.

ETA: My barrels are all BCM, I have 2 regular LW with 1 free floated and 1 not and I have 1 ELW barrel which is the most well balanced rifle I have ever held
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:12:39 AM EDT
My Daniel Defense has a light barrel an I have no problems with it.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:21:04 AM EDT
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Nothing Wrong with them
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Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:26:42 AM EDT
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For a rifle intended to be carried around alot I really like the pencil profile. It is less weight and also balances much better that an M4 or HBAR profile. The issued M16A4 I had at my first unit was horribly front heavy with the barrel profile combined with the quadrail. The M4 I got later on wasn't much better. Granted quadrails are old tech now but still its .625 for me unless i'm building a rifle intended to be fired off a bipod.
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That's because the Knight's or the cheaper copy weighs over a pound, close to two, on it's own. Those things are freaking heavy. I pick up an A4 or A2 without that rails system and it feels like a lawn dart in comparison.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:40:45 AM EDT
It depends on what kind of accuracy and what kind of distances you're talking about. I have a 2 Faxon Gunner barrels but I haven't ran them enough to test precision when hot. But my ballistic advantage light .750 barrel does very well at a range of temperatures and it's really not heavy at all.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:10:15 AM EDT
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Nothing is wrong with them OP...just don't expect an MG barrel. I have an SP1 with a slim barrel profile which kicks ass and my HD rifle is rocking a 16" DD pencil profile barrel which it's had for about 8 years. Both shoot fine I just don't intend to do mag dumps with them or spend an hour putting 4000 rounds down range (yes I'm exaggerating but hopefully you know what I mean).
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I use a ODIN 10.5" stainless steel Ultralite barrel on my M16, heats up, cools down and works like very other barrel. Never had any issues with it and after thousands of rounds the rifling still looks great. And at $240 a barrel ill just replace it when it gets work out. And im not concerned about SHTF longevity as It would probably take 2-3x as many rounds as I even have on hand to wear out that barrel.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:31:33 AM EDT
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if you heat up the barrel it will shift, but in my experience it doesn't/ wont matter for a "defensive" rifle.
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Quoted:
So on a 3-day, 2,000rnd carbine class it should be fine maintaining its POA/POI?
if you heat up the barrel it will shift, but in my experience it doesn't/ wont matter for a "defensive" rifle.
I have never seen a huge freak out totally missing the target shift.  Yeah I have seen a shift but we are talking within a softball and at max a basketball size shift but rather rare I would say.  My "optimum profile" FN CHF barrel I have done some 200-250 sustained shooting and honestly was not seeing anything that would be detrimental to my shooting.  We were also shooting minute of man (IPSC torso).  The only time we were having issues is when I was not doing my part and missing because of my failures not the barrel.

I will say if you are doing mag dump after mag dump, FA, or bump fire you might see large shifts.
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