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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:03:03 PM EDT
What's wrong with an Olympic PCR16? They seem to be pretty low cost. I'm wondering, because I'm trying to find a low cost way to start shooting in DCM/high power matches. I know I don't need something great to start, because the problem is going to be the guy holding the gun. Any suggestions?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:28:34 PM EDT
The PCR 16 is a very good rifle for the money but it is a flattop, bull barrel, free float handguard. I am not certain but I believe you will need an A2 upper with milspec stock, grip, handguards, and trigger to compete in DCM.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 1:49:09 PM EDT
Olympic does make a better rifle than ASA.

Although MarkM will claim they are both equally POS.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:27:02 PM EDT
There is absolutely NO SENSE in buying an OLY under any circumstances.  You will be wasting your money.

Start out with a decent brand of rifle because there is NO CHANCE that you won't become addicted!

No one here has ever bought a good AR and then later regretted not buying a piece of shit in order to save a buck or two, Bitterman!!!

DON'T GET SUCKED INTO THAT BULLSHIT LIFETIME WARANTEE EITHER!  

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:40:53 PM EDT
True, but there are plenty of people who have bought Olys and liked them.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:27:57 PM EDT
I have been using OLY barrels and lowers for years and on occasion I have had some problems with them but for the most part they have been good parts. There SUM barrells are excelent broach cut barrels. Unlike most "Manufacturers" OLY realy does make most everything in house I have been to there shop and seen the machines and equipment in use. Several years ago there was some QC problems but I have not had any issues latley. If you have any problems with there gear feel free to give me a call I may be able to assist you.
Red
X Ring Precision Rifles.
919-414-3247
www.xringprecisionrifles.com
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:31:45 PM EDT
I normally stay out of the olym vs all. But I think I will throw in what i have seen.


There was a guy I knew well at the range. He wanted me to change his upper on his Colt. And he also had a Olympic that he wanted looked at for some short stroking issues.(not all the time)


After the upper install, I put the Colt's bolt and charging handle in the Olypic py accident. But when I try to assemble the Colt, the Olympic Charging handle would not go in. It was wider than the slot cut in the Colt upper.

Tried this charging handle in the Olympic, and it is fine. This Charging Handle also do not work in my Bushmaster or RRA upper.


Take it for what it's worth. Odd specs on the parts I guess. Colt's guilty of this over the years as well.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:15:08 PM EDT
Olympic IMO has shown in the past many similar traits to a certain HK copy company. To keep this simple, I would much rather buy a stripped lower of any other brand and build a J&T kit on it than a new Olympic. Or if you want the complete gun route, get a Rock River or a Bushmaster...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 8:32:38 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By jnclement:
What's wrong with an Olympic PCR16? They seem to be pretty low cost. I'm wondering, because I'm trying to find a low cost way to start shooting in DCM/high power matches. I know I don't need something great to start, because the problem is going to be the guy holding the gun. Any suggestions?



YOU CANNOT USE A 16" OR 14.5" RIFLE FOR HI-POWER!

20" A2 ONLY (well, 20" A4 is technically legal, but the only permitted sight is the carry handle, and detatchable handles do not have enough elevation adjustment!

The OlyArms model to get is the PCR-4 or ServiceMatch....

Pay extra for a STAINLESS barrel, and MAKE SURE that you get a 1/8 twist -> 1/9 is TOO SLOW, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT 77GR BULLETS, and some ranges have local rules FORBIDDING military-issue ammo because it is too light (my range has such a rule - nothing lighter than 68gr)!

I have a PCR-4 that I have used in NRA matches. It is very accurate for a rack grade gun (my best 200yd score is a 91).

I have had no problems whatsoever, and see no reason to pay extra cash for a name. I've also easily interchanged parts between my 20" DPMS .22LR upper and my original 20" Olympic .223 upper (both are used on the same Oly forged lower)...

BTW, ignore MarkM -> he has a personal bug up his A$$ about OlyArms, which he tries to foist on everyone here... It's nothing but hot air...

I have NO association with Oly apart from being a VERY satasfied customer. I doubt I'll buy an AR from another major manufacturer - the only reason I can think of to go elsewhere is to get a 1:7 twist barrel, but that's something I'd be looking at a barrel company (like Krieger) or custom shop (like White Oak or Accuracy Speaks) for...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:32:21 PM EDT
I have had two OLY uppers and one OLY lower.  After building over 10 AR's, learning what works, and what doesnt......  I no longer own any OLY uppers or lowers.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:52:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 5:53:07 AM EDT by SIGNAL4L]
Oly's pistol caliber uppers are great. I have put a bucket full of .45acp through mine w/o problems. I have been using an Oly lower on an RRA upper without any problems. In my experience the upper/lower fit with OLY rifles leaves a bit to be desired. If you like the OLY rifle, buy it. (You may need a red widget under your rear takedown pin.)
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:19:06 AM EDT

BTW, ignore MarkM -> he has a personal bug up his A$$ about OlyArms, which he tries to foist on everyone here... It's nothing but hot air...


Well, he isn't the only person that's had bad dealings with Oly.  I have a buddy, who is an extremely reasonable person have a run in with Oly, they fucked him hard and w/o a reach around either.  That is enough for me not to deal with them.  Why, why, why would someone want to buy from a dealer that IF you had a problem you would get hose?  Sure they "might" make a good product, but nobody is 100%, and when you do have to use the "life time warranty" it DOES NOT EXIST.  

Go with a reputable company that you know has good CS.  Just my .02.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:29:27 AM EDT
I only have experience with four different Olympic lowers of different vintages.

Two of them would only work with the uppers that were factory installed. The takedown pins were spaced out of spec. Another one had the bolt catch placed out of spec and it would not lock open with any upper. Changing the bolt catch didn't help. The fourth one was in spec and fine.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:42:57 AM EDT
Another Oly bashing thread...what fun. Oly makes 2 things great: their lowers and their SUM barrels. I have a T3MX lower and I will say hands down the finish is BETTER than the finish on my RRA upper. Everything was to spec, the coating is very hard, and there it fits very tight with my upper. They do outsource quite a bit of their parts. A lot of their lower small parts, their sights, etc. are outsourced. Not to say this is all that bad, but the quality isn't as great as their in house stuff. That said, so does almost every other manufacturer. The only thing I've had to send back was my front sight which didn't want to flip down. I just put it in a priority mail envelope, sent it off, and had a new one a week later. I'm sure if I asked to have my shipping costs refunded they would have, but I didn't feel like bitching about $3.85. So, my advice, go with Oly for the lower receiver because their quality is on par with anything else out there. As for the rest, it's entierly up to you. Oly's fine, RRA, Armalite, BM, etc. they're all pretty much on par with each other. Pick which ever one you want and I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:23:55 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies. I had researched this on the forum, and was afraid it would start one of those "Ford vs. Chevy" wars that seem to pop up on all forums, regardless of the topic. But I've gotten a lot of good info. I'll probably build a lower, and put someones upper on it. I just got curious, when Oly advertises a sub MOA gun, using a 16" barrel. And under $700. I'm probably better off just to buy a Bushmaster from the CMP program.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:49:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 10:52:32 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
I have my own grudges wit Olympic Arms and I have not bought one of their products in about 10-years...  Bushmaster, RRA, Eagle Arms, DPMS, Armalite, and Colt are all good companies....  Oly just isn't a company that I send my money to...

Nuff Said...  And I haven't posted that in a couple years

Any 20-in HBAR upper will likely outshot the average shooter.  I shot DCM for a couple years with a Bushmaster A2 HBARwith the nly tw upgrades being a Jewell trigger and one of the DCM Float tubes...  I got to the expert level with that upper and simply rebarreled with a better barrel later to allow my gun to keep better then me!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:01:25 AM EDT
Barrel length has almost nothing to do with accuracy. Almost any free floated AR with 16" or longer will shoot sub-MOA. And under $700 is not all that unreasonable. $250 for the lower and $450 for an upper is pretty much what you're going to pay anywhere else. The price you saw may or may not have had the FET factored in. That makes a bit of a difference too (and it's why I like to build rather than buy).
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:51:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By caneau:
Barrel length has almost nothing to do with accuracy. Almost any free floated AR with 16" or longer will shoot sub-MOA. ).




At what distance is your statement good for.


I think for over 200 yards you need longer than 16" barrel (Velocity helps)
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:09:47 PM EDT
I have an oly upper and lower built with bushmaster parts, and bbl. Shoots flawlessly. I did call oly to ask a question, one time, and the guy on the line was kind of rude.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:43:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Timanator:

Originally Posted By caneau:
Barrel length has almost nothing to do with accuracy. Almost any free floated AR with 16" or longer will shoot sub-MOA. ).




At what distance is your statement good for.


I think for over 200 yards you need longer than 16" barrel (Velocity helps)



1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards. Therefore, if said company advertises a gun that will shoot MOA and jnclement quotes them, I think it's fair to assume we're all talking about shooting at 100 yards. And yes, almost any 16" free floated gun with a decent barrel will shoot sub-MOA groups.
As for distance, you need to get out to 300+ yards for it to matter. Your velocity gains are fairly small in relation to the added barrel length (it's not like the difference between shooting a handgun with a 2" barrel and one with a 6"). If you want real world proof, look at the SPR. It only has an 18" barrel yet is easily one of the most accurate rifles in the military and 300+ yard shots are not uncommon with it.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:55:13 PM EDT
I've had a number of experiences with Oly.  

My first purchased AR15 was an Oly PCR97.  It was a POS and didn't work out of the box.  It had a bent gas tube, which caused the bolt carrier to short cycle.  I took it back to the gun shop and explained the problem.  They sent it back to Oly for repair.  At that time Oly had a 60 day refund policy.  I called Oly, and they said the problem was a tight camber.  After waiting for weeks for help I was able to get a reply.  They wanted to ream the camber out.  They laughed at me when I told them the malfunction, and told me I didn't know what I was talking about.  I guess 6 years small arms armorer experience in the USCG meant nothing.  After 58 days of Oly's BS I requested a full refund.  I used the refund for a Bushmaster.  h
Next gun show I bought 2 lowers.  I was planning to keep these in lower form until I could afford to build them up.  All of the sudden I see here on the forums a thread about Oly lowers being out of spec.  I ordered a lower build kit, and found that the lowers I had wouldn't take the trigger/hammer parts.  Returned to Oly for a fix.  They remilled the lowers, and refinished tham.  Both lowers are still out of spec, and take a punch to break down the rifles because the take down pins are so tight.  I have to say, however, these are very accurate with the guns I built on them.

I have built a few other guns for my friends here before the 2000 ban.  The RRA lowers seemed to be the best deal and highest quality I built.  Too bad that CA still has that stupid ban, and no new lowers can be used here.  I can use my Oly's as they are, but in hindsight, I'd been better off with higher quality lowers such as Bushermaster or RRA.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:12:38 AM EDT
Dito on the experiences talking with OA on the phone...  I have never delt with a worst bunch of IDIOTS who obviously didn't need my money... hence the reason they don't get any of it to this day!

Sad part is that I really would like to try one of their OA-93 pistol uppers but I do hold a grudge!
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 4:05:40 PM EDT
I've got a Oly lower and it's fine. I bought it used and have had no problems. It fits nice and tight with my CMMG upper.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:41:50 PM EDT
I bought a PCR16 when they came out a couple years ago, or so.  It has a gouged up chamber.

Here's how the brass comes out of it:
http://www.hunt101.com/img/082216.jpg



Link Posted: 10/21/2004 5:39:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 6:45:21 AM EDT
I have an Olympic Arms PCR-5. I have been very happy with it and it has never failed to fire. The only complaint I have is a slightly tight magwell. USGI mags drop free fine, but refinished or British steel mags will not drop free. Still I thought it was a great rifle for the money. Just my two cents.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:16:00 AM EDT
I've had very good experiences with two of their lowers and a couple of barrels and bolt/carriers as well.  Never used amnything else from Oly, though, so I can't comment on the quality of anything else.  The few times I've had questions with them on the phone have ben good experiences as well.  Maybe I just got lucky.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:25:46 PM EDT
I have five AR's, all home built, and two more under construction.


FN MPC A2 barrel and bolt carrier with with Oly A2 upper/LPK/Furniture and Stinger arms lower.

Mega Machine frankengun with Oly Camo furniture, Oly internals and a mystery barrel.

All Oly A2 FAR Carbine with 16" chrome moly and CavArms yellow furniture.

All Oly M4 Maxxhard flat top with FIRSH & stainless Oly M4 barrel - Magpul stock and pistol grip.

All SGW(Oly) Stainless M4gery/A2 upper with FIRSH and stainless Oly M4 barrel - Magpul stock

LMT/Colt/CMMG frankengun - under construction.

All Oly M4 Maxxhard stainless barrel on matched Oly Maxxhard receivers and Oly internals - under construction.

For some reason, perhaps it's the 17 years I spent as a machinist, I don't have any problems with Oly hardware or mixing and matching Oly hardware with other manufacturer's parts.

I make it a point to use the correct tools for the job and do my homework BEFORE I go at my rifles with my tools. I've spent as much money on tools as I have to build a rifle.

Frankly, I think most people who are having problems ought to leave the work to a gunsmith or a skilled machinist because it takes a few years to develop the proper skills, attitude and some maturity. If you are a gun user, act like one, don't act like a gun builder and neither of us is ready to judge the gun makers.

Blaming the parts or the tools is the sign of a hack.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:28:27 PM EDT
What's wrong with an Olympic?

Absolutely nothing.
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