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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/6/2005 9:35:25 AM EDT
What is the real story behind the new contract going to FN for the SCAR vs. HK XM8? Last I heard, HK had the contract all but signed. They were so close that CT congressmen and senators got involved and requested that Colt be given another review, then all of a sudden FN gets the contract.

Does anyone have the behind the scense story of what really happened?
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:54:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CFFUTS23:
What is the real story behind the new contract going to FN for the SCAR vs. HK XM8? Last I heard, HK had the contract all but signed. They were so close that CT congressmen and senators got involved and requested that Colt be given another review, then all of a sudden FN gets the contract.

Does anyone have the behind the scense story of what really happened?



The same thing that always happens....the company with the biggest grease gun wins as...

It's always about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s....and no...NOT relevent to "Unit Pricing".

The company with the best and most Steak & Champagne lunches and the best looking, most willing, thoroughbred skanks.....wins....hands down...every time...take it to the bank....

Berretta Did!!! LOL!!!

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:51:17 AM EDT

If you post this question over in General Discussion, you will undoubtedly get a lot of answers.



Did the SCAR really beat out the XM8? I thought the SCAR won a contest for Spec Ops, but the XM8 has been trying to get a contract for the "new" army rifle.

My understanding of the XM8 saga is that HK has been trying to YEARS to convince the regular army that the XM8 is the coolest thing since sliced bread and a great replacement for the M16/M4, but their attempts pretty much failed a little over a year ago - and any "developments" since then are purely HK marketing/hype, and don't reflect much actual reality.

But, other people understand these events better than me. There are undoubtedly old threads on this as well.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 11:41:53 AM EDT
I think they're waiting until we all live in space before they will adopt the XM8. It just looks too much like something you'd find on a spaceship if you ask me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 11:45:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 12:29:35 PM EDT
The xm-8 was not entered in the SCAR competition that FN won.

Jason
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 12:40:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 12:40:51 PM EDT
The FN Scar looks retarded..especially the sloping stock configuration...and it's a lug for it's size...check out the weight and barrel length...almost 8lbs for a 13" barrel .223?...wtf?

Then again?..I'm reluctant to change...it took me a good 20 years to wind up liking the M16/AR more than the M14/M1A1....one things for sure...they've got their hands full trying to "One Up" the mighty and notorious black rifle...and my guess is....they won't...and what they come up with will be sold on the cleanliness, decreased cleaning maint. and slightly improved reliabilty of a "Shorter Barreled/Gas Piston" application...the same application that will make it less accurate and more weighty....then all wrapped up in space age polymer with 12 linear feet of rails all over the damn thing and all for the added "Cool Factor"....i.e. a glorified Berreta Firestorm...can you say...

"Kirk To Enterprise...come in Enterprise."

LOL!!! & L8R, Bill.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 5:29:57 PM EDT

two seperate cases.

HK can't sumit the XM8 for SCAR because they would be using gov't funding to compete in an open competition. can have the gov't compete against the private industry. HK also has the M416 at the time but they are in a legal battle over it. so in the end no HK entry in the SCAR.



That's about what I just read in the latest issue of Small Arms Review. They seemed to think SCAR was still up in the air, and said the 416 is being fielded by some of the ninja boys in IRQ/AFG. The article also stated that the 416 was developed at the request of SOF, who reportedly had heavy input at every step of its development, and at no cost to Uncle Sam. Velllly intelestink, no?

Cheers
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 6:50:44 PM EDT
The ways of the Ordnance Corps are many and subtle. And damn odd sometimes. Did the Beretta ACTUALLY outperform all the other entrants in the "XM9" competition? If so, why did they (very quietly) later standardize the SIG as the M11? On account 'o they was morons? I don't think so. I think that there is a whole lot more involved than "more inherent accuracy" or "lower unit price." For starters, how about "reliability and repairability?" And what about "armorer training, initial issue of spares, and depot tooling?"

I WILL NOT subscribe to any suggestion that the Ordnance Corps is generally corrupt-there are far too many people involved for real corruption to survive. And frankly, I believed MY oath and I think about 99.9999% of ALL military members do as well.

Finally, the Ordnance Corps doesn't give a rat's ass whether we on this board approve of their decisions or not. They answer to the Chief of Staff, not us. When it all shakes out, do a Freedom of Information Act info request for "everything relating to the standardization of the Mxxx" and read what you get. It'll be an eye opener.

Yeah, I'm a little hot under the collar about this. When you dedicate your life to serving your country, it irks you when people paint ALL military as corrupt, and that's what the "Ordinace Corps makes its decisions based on the number of steak and lobster 'informational meetings' the vendors throw" naysayers are doing.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:20:07 PM EDT
XM8 was found lacking in the LMG department. Not something you easily fix when you have a polymer trunion. Not so modular anymore is it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:53:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 48thHighlander:
XM8 was found lacking in the LMG department. Not something you easily fix when you have a polymer trunion. Not so modular anymore is it.



Two extremely valid points that most people refuse to comprehend. Bravo!! I know damn well I wouldn't want a plastic trunioned gun, in the desert, in a rapid fire gun fight. It's only as modular as the M16, if not less due to parts availability. (Not counting parts on the civilian market even) I personally would not feel confident going into any battle with a polymer upper of any kind.

However, my buddy just talked to a Marine out of boot camp who insisted they were receiving XM8's direct from HK as duty weapons in the near future.

As for the FN SCAR/ARM rifles, if we change, I think the SCAR trials are the best route to weed out the best general issue rifle. I think it looks good, but looks don't mean a damn thing. Oh, and that's the old weight of 7.7 pounds, the new official weight is 7.24 including back up folding irons for the 13.8" barrel. While the stock may be ugly, it's quite possibly the most modular stock any of us have ever seen.

The FN ARM rifle is not not set in stone, but the modularity, ease of production, and features will more than likely be the future of military small arms. SOCOM specifically requested free floating barrels, so I'd assume accuracy was a factor in their trials.

Don't forget, SOCOM wants the SCAR rifles to replace the M4, CQBR, and Mk 12 SPR in the light version, and the M14 and Mk 11 SR25 in the heavy version. If it did well enough for them to consider dropping the listed for the ARM rifle, I think it's earned it's chance.

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