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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/21/2004 8:01:19 AM EST
I personally have attended 5 courses at the F.A.R.M. (which is where most SWAT guys train here). I have taken a 1st and 2nd stage Urban Assault Rifle course, a 1st and 2nd Advanced Tactical Handgun course and a Team Tactics course ( i got lucky on this course and snuck in with a friend of mine on SWAT). I have always wanted to get down to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch but never had the funds to do so.... I can say though, I walked away with a mountain of knowledge from these courses. I will never forget the class on the difference between true cover and concealment. We got to shoot several different guns of different calibers including a 50 BMG and realized quickly that when it comes to a 308 or bigger, there is almost no true cover from these. Eye opening experience. We also found how easily the 5.56 NATO round would punch right thru sheet metal, cinderblocks, and car engines.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:04:06 AM EST
I guess I forgot my Concealed Carry Permit class too......
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:18:24 AM EST
i run through my house screaming BANGBANGBANGBANG!

­

<­BR>





sometimes i even do it with my weapon
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:19:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:26:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
We also found how easily the 5.56 NATO round would punch right thru sheet metal, cinderblocks, and car engines.




Were these pip-squeak Japanese aluminum blocked 4-cylinder car engines? The kind that come in foreign cars with 4 lug-nuts......

Or were these American V-8s made of cast-iron?

Mike
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:28:11 AM EST
THUNDER RANCH
hippie.gif
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:31:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
We also found how easily the 5.56 NATO round would punch right thru sheet metal, cinderblocks, and car engines.




Were these pip-squeak Japanese aluminum blocked 4-cylinder car engines? The kind that come in foreign cars with 4 lug-nuts......

Or were these American V-8s made of cast-iron?

Mike



I dont recall what make and models the cars were. They were almost unrecognizable due to how much shooting had been done to them. I believe the point the instructor was trying to make was that a car is not necessarily a safe place for cover. We shot the 5.56 Nato round thru one door on the passenger side and clear out the other side of the driver door.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:50:43 AM EST
Gunsite 223 link
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:52:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jivana108:
[I dont recall what make and models the cars were. They were almost unrecognizable due to how much shooting had been done to them. I believe the point the instructor was trying to make was that a car is not necessarily a safe place for cover. We shot the 5.56 Nato round thru one door on the passenger side and clear out the other side of the driver door.



FWIW, there's a BIG difference between claiming a M855 round will shoot thru a car engine and that it will shoot thru car doors......, especially considering most automobiles are made outta beer cans now days.

I suspect even a M193 round can manage that feat, but I have a hard time believing either would make it thru a car engine, especially a V8, while still in the car/truck.

As far as using a car for cover, I'll take the front wheel area, behind the engine compartment and be fairly certain unless the perp has a Barrett, that I'm covered. YMMV

Mike

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:03:07 AM EST
That is about what we found too.... It also seemed that although the 5.56 would punch thru just about everything we shot it at, it was determined that the round itself would probably not be very effective or lethal at that point, since the round would probably be destroyed by the time it gets thru. However, the 308 seemed to be the most dangerous round to try to cover from. It would punch thru anything and would still be lethal..... My favorite part was shoothing thru a foot of concrete with the 50 and watching the concrete explode..... AWESOME!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:04:34 AM EST
I forgot to note that what I meant by shooting into the engine with a 5.56 would easily disable the engine. I should have worded that differently. The way I stated it made it sound like you could shoot thru an engine and kill someone on the other side. That is a bit reaching.... definately not what I meant.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:16:34 AM EST
I'd love to go through some training classes but I don't know of anyone near northern Alabama. Seems everyone is in the deserts out west.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:19:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:22:20 AM EST by Stickman]
Putting the list aside, my best training (both as a student and co-instructor)has been with Jeff Hall.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:19:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By druncuncas:
i run through my house screaming BANGBANGBANGBANG!



The first thing I do every time I get home is grab my M4 and clear my house.

Honestly, I am curious as well. I need some formalized and standardized training.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:25:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:25:59 AM EST by ozob]
Cub Scouts. Long freaking time ago too. Of course, the focus was more on bolt action single shot .22, but they covered the basics just fine.

Actually, kinda makes me wonder what an updated version using a special ops m4 might be like. "Careful where you point that laser. And remember, turn on your nvg BEFORE your sight. And always carry extra batteries.... hmmm.

ozob
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:59:11 AM EST
SigArms Academy:

Concealed Carry

Advanced Concealed Carry

Advanced Defensive Pistol

Defensive Shotgun
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:07:43 AM EST
Ive always wondered about the SIGArms Academy. How was that? Worth the bucks?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:15:01 AM EST
No "formal" training here. However I am a professional bad-guy at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (Glynco, GA) and for the past 6 years I get to shoot FX Simmunition rounds at Federal Agents in training. We use Sigs, Glocks, Berettas, and MP5s! It is the ULTIMATE in firearms training. Although as mentioned before not "formal" I'd put my shootin' skills against most!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:33:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Drav:
I'd love to go through some training classes but I don't know of anyone near northern Alabama. Seems everyone is in the deserts out west.



Blackwater is closer to you than the schools out west.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:33:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Unknown1Sailor:

Originally Posted By Drav:
I'd love to go through some training classes but I don't know of anyone near northern Alabama. Seems everyone is in the deserts out west.



Blackwater is closer to you than the schools out west.


I'm looking at 'em now, thanks!
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:09:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By JimmyThompson:
No "formal" training here. However I am a professional bad-guy at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (Glynco, GA) and for the past 6 years I get to shoot FX Simmunition rounds at Federal Agents in training. We use Sigs, Glocks, Berettas, and MP5s! It is the ULTIMATE in firearms training. Although as mentioned before not "formal" I'd put my shootin' skills against most!



you sir, might be the luckiest man, on the face of the earth.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:45:09 AM EST
TR
defensive pistol 1
urban rifle 1
urban rifle 2

Clint da man.
Oregon's just too damn much of a schlep, though.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:49:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 11:26:59 AM EST
In order of appearance:

Texas CHL
Texas Pistol Academy Basic Pistol (Robert Duhon)
Texas Pistol Academy Basic Carbine (a guy whose main qualification was he had taken a bunch of courses at TPA)
Tac-Pro Shooting Center Primary Pistol (Bill Davison)
Pro-Tac Global AR15.com Carbine course (Chris Grollnek)
Tac-Pro Shooting Center Intermediate Pistol (Bill Davison)
Texas CHL renewal

Not as many courses as I'd like but more than I can afford . The funny thing is that for the most part, the civilian instruction has been light years better than the military instruction I received.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:03:07 PM EST
Just an overnight stay at a Holiday Inn Express.....
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:07:42 PM EST
I've taken an Intro to Pistols course with an Beretta 92FS, that's about it. I'd love to do some tactical stuff further down the road though.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:29:05 PM EST
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