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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/6/2005 6:53:45 PM EDT
I know this is kind of a broad question considering the number of bullets available, but lets stretch the imagination. What kind of practical range is the platform capable of?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 7:45:50 PM EDT
This is a question for Marty or Tony but I'll take a stab at it.

I would say 300 yrds? That's using an average weight bullet of 300-350 gr.

Yes??? No???
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 8:27:16 PM EDT
Practical? Probably about 300yds....

If you had a precision optic and knew how to use it, with a good bit of elevation adjustment...400yds-500yds....

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:


If you had a precision optic and knew how to use it, with a good bit of elevation adjustment...400yds-500yds....




Ya. You'de really have to lob one of those suckers to get it out to 400-500 yrds.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:05:33 AM EDT
from what i have heard 300 yrds sounds right
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:39:52 PM EDT
I'd put the question in a slighty different light. Since the 458 Socom roughly duplicates 45-70 Government ballistics, ask the question "how far is a 45-70 effective". Stop by and visit with some Black Powder long range shooters and see what they can do with iron sights. These guys are pretty amazing. Add the optics of your choice, and you can certainly "hit" stuff a very long way out.

With regard to the answer about lobbing them out there, every gun lobs bullets. Some are just less of a lob. Those heavy bullets do have a lot going for them once they connect. With the 458, I would say that 2 to 3 hundred is easily obtainable by an "average" shooter. If you want to stretch it out further than you have to have everything dialed in very precisely, the range, the wind, your ballistics, etc. As with any cartridge, the practical range is more dictated by the level of commitment of the guy behind the trigger.

Craig
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:26:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bearbait1:
I'd put the question in a slighty different light. Since the 458 Socom roughly duplicates 45-70 Government ballistics, ask the question "how far is a 45-70 effective". Stop by and visit with some Black Powder long range shooters and see what they can do with iron sights. These guys are pretty amazing. Add the optics of your choice, and you can certainly "hit" stuff a very long way out.

With regard to the answer about lobbing them out there, every gun lobs bullets. Some are just less of a lob. Those heavy bullets do have a lot going for them once they connect. With the 458, I would say that 2 to 3 hundred is easily obtainable by an "average" shooter. If you want to stretch it out further than you have to have everything dialed in very precisely, the range, the wind, your ballistics, etc. As with any cartridge, the practical range is more dictated by the level of commitment of the guy behind the trigger.

Craig



Well put post. I'd put myself in the average shooter catagory and would be happy with 200-300 m.
I'm defintely goinbg to try and learn more about this platform. I used to envision myself buying a Beowulf, but the bullet selection of the SOCOM really interests me.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 3:06:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bearbait1:
I'd put the question in a slighty different light. Since the 458 Socom roughly duplicates 45-70 Government ballistics, ask the question "how far is a 45-70 effective". Stop by and visit with some Black Powder long range shooters and see what they can do with iron sights. These guys are pretty amazing. Add the optics of your choice, and you can certainly "hit" stuff a very long way out.

With regard to the answer about lobbing them out there, every gun lobs bullets. Some are just less of a lob. Those heavy bullets do have a lot going for them once they connect. With the 458, I would say that 2 to 3 hundred is easily obtainable by an "average" shooter. If you want to stretch it out further than you have to have everything dialed in very precisely, the range, the wind, your ballistics, etc. As with any cartridge, the practical range is more dictated by the level of commitment of the guy behind the trigger.


Well stated indeed. Look no further than some of the old buffalo hunters. Billy Dixon made a rather amazing shot at the battle of Adobe Wells with a cartridge that has very similar ballistics to that of the 458 Socom. I've made hits on an 8-10" plate at 300 yards with my Beowulf. It's simply a matter of how much to hold over since the gun is capable of probably 3" groups at that range. I've also read that larger calibers tend to become more accurate at longer distances.
Craig

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:31:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bearbait1:


With regard to the answer about lobbing them out there, every gun lobs bullets. Some are just less of a lob.


Craig



I'm aware of this. I was being sarcastic due to the enormous weight of the 600gr subsonic rounds.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:41:10 PM EDT
Billy Dixon has already been mentioned. While he himself abdmitted to more luck than skill, he took a rifle, shot it in excess of 1,000 yards and knocked a native off a horse ....

They did some VERY interesting LOOONG range testing with large bore rifles out on the eastern seaboard beaches back in the late 1800s using heavy lead projectiles. .45-70 at Two Miles:
The Sandy Hook Tests of 1879, read the FULL STORY

For more "recent" results, a retired Ft Benning Sniper Instructor was reporting 400 yard head shots with the 600 gr subsonics ....

Some exerpts from Sandy Hook
The rifles tested included a special "long range" Springfield chambered for a 2.4-inch shell instead of the standard 2.1-inch case. The 2.4-inch case held 80 grains of black powder behind the new prototype 500-grain lead bullet. The other loads tested were the standard .45-70-405 Army load in the issue M-1873 Springfield, and the .45-85-480 load in the British Martini-Henry rifle.

When the Springfield long range cartridge was fired, the 500-grain blunt nosed lead bullets propelled by 80 grains of black powder in the 2.4-inch cases at about 1,375 fps penetrated right through the three inches of wooden target and buried themselves in the sand. One 500-grain slug pierced three inches of target and buried itself in a supporting six-inch post, giving a total penetration of a measured 5.25 inches. The Service 405-grain bullet gave a penetration of just 1.12 inches, and the Martini-Henry 480-grain bullet, 2.50 inches.

Angles of rifle elevation were: Springfield service .45-70-405 - 17°08'16"; Springfield long range .45-80-500 - 10°38'21"; and Martini-Henry .45-85-480 - 13°20'18".

Note that the angle is not that extreme and the muzzle velocity for the 500 gr is about the same for the SOCOM in the 16" AR ... I guess this is why we had a customer request a detachable 1855 ladder sight for his flat top ....
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:15:00 PM EDT
Taipan,

The bullet selection is what definately sold me on the 458. If you handload, this cartridge is almost too versatile. If you want to really stretch it out, and are not trying to kill anything too big, there are scads of 458 Win Mag bullets that have pretty high ballistic coefficients. If you want to hammer the snot out of stuff a bit closer (including about any game animal of your choice) there are as many 45-70 flat point bullets that will just plain put the hurt on the target. It really pays to handload, and have a chrony and ballistic program. When you plug in the numbers, things get very interesting at range with the assorted bullets. I have even played with premium hard cast bullets designed for the 45-70. These penetrate like crazy.

Wirebrush,

One of the benefits of having one of Marty's barrels is that it is a Pac-nor. I am way under one moa with this gun and my handloads of choice. I have full confidence at 300 yards, and a bit further (with everything else right). I just picked up a Nightforce 3-15, and with the clicks and the NP-r2 reticle, I have some very long range steel in my future once all of my hunts are done this fall.

Newbe,

I figured as much, just couldn't resist. I have quite the collection of rangefinders to help me hit the pot of gold under the rainbow (trajectory).


Marty,

I did some math on the standard A-2 sight and it's range of adjustment, and decided I needed a scope with a ranging reticle. Never thought about a ladder sight. I have one on my Puma in 454 Casull. I don't think I have the you know whats to put one on an AR. There is a certain buffalo at the Whittington Center that I will get to, one way or another, even if it requires a ladder. Great idea, actually. Those 45-70 trials helped sway me to my guide gun in 45-70, and my experience with the 45-70 helped seal the deal on your 458. If I go with a ladder, do you think that I should work up some black powder 458 loads

Craig
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