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Posted: 9/18/2004 6:00:14 PM EST

With a 16" and 20" barrel what is considered a normal group at 300?

What is it like with a ACOG or other scope?

I got some rather poor groups with two different AKs in the last two weeks so I am planning on dusting off my AR tomorrow for a comparison. What do you guys get?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:30:16 PM EST

I finally got to the range today so I'll post a picture of what I could do. These were my best today.

Rifle: Colt Sporter Target Model (20" military contour barrel).

Scope: Trijicon ACOG 4x32 Model TA01.

Ammo: Winchester Q3131A Lot UH40.


100 Yards 2 1/4":




300 Yards 6 1/2":



Will anybody else share?

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 12:52:58 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:39:21 AM EST
I dont have any pictures of tagets at 300.


But my 16" SS Saw barrel does about 3/4 MOA at 100. But at 300 with Q3131a it shoots closer to 10 MOA. But with BH 68 grs or Wolf 62 grs it does closer to 3 MOA at 200 yds.


I will try to get some data and pics 2 weekends from now.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:34:39 AM EST
At 300 I'd be happy with any hits in the outer circle regardless of the ammo. But I shoot Irons only and not off of the bench.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:29:32 PM EST
MOA is MOA! If it groups 1/4" at 25 yards that is MOA. 1/2" at 50 yards= 1" at 100 yards=3" at 300 yards, & so forth.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:42:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
MOA is MOA! If it groups 1/4" at 25 yards that is MOA. 1/2" at 50 yards= 1" at 100 yards=3" at 300 yards, & so forth.




If you say that on the AK board several people will step forward with their sub-MOA SAR-1s

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:32:55 AM EST
Don't usually shoot groups at 300 because I am too lazy to do all the walking; but if the wind isn't too gusty, I can keep them on a 6" steel plate @ 300yds about 90% of the time.

That is prone with a free-floated 16" chrome Bushy HBAR and TA11.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:06:18 PM EST
Ok, seems that you guys like this ammo pretty good. How is it out of a 1:7 twist short barrel? I found some of this stuff on clearance in a gunshop. The guy behind the counter said he thought it was something special but wasn't sure. It was only $2+ a box so I figured he was full of it and only bought a few boxes. It's Federal, lot 26. Should I go back to see if they have any more(which I doubt, it was a while ago)?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:21:15 AM EST

If you say that on the AK board several people will step forward with their sub-MOA SAR-1s


My VEPR K shoots at best (in my hands) 0.7" at 50yd or roughly 1.5 MOA.
It's limited by a 16" barrel, I know the folks with 20" VEPRs are shooting tighter groups with iron sights.

Is there any reason why you can't use more glass on an AR?? A Trijicon is a great battle scope but $700 for a 4x scope isn't my idea of bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:57:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:22:21 AM EST
I didn't mean to imply 7.62x39 was linear from 100yd to 300yd (it's anything but linear), 1.5" groups at 100yd seem nominal for AKs.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:41:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Is there any reason why you can't use more glass on an AR?? A Trijicon is a great battle scope but $700 for a 4x scope isn't my idea of bang for the buck.




This was a test of "battle" ammo shot from a "battle" rifle, using a "battle" scope. It's a setup for combat, not for paper targets or prairie rodents.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:21:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 10:22:27 AM EST by metroplex]
Wouldn't a variable scope work just as well in a controlled "combat" environment? 3x-9x would make it very effective against 100yd-200yd engagements while you can quickly adjust to higher mag for those pesky 400+ yd engagements. I just didn't see the logic in spending $700 for a 4x scope unless you planned to deploy to SWA with your ACOG.

Otherwise, I could get a quality Leupold variable scope for that price.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:44:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 10:46:31 AM EST by brouhaha]
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 11:57:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:16:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Wouldn't a variable scope work just as well in a controlled "combat" environment? 3x-9x would make it very effective against 100yd-200yd engagements while you can quickly adjust to higher mag for those pesky 400+ yd engagements. I just didn't see the logic in spending $700 for a 4x scope unless you planned to deploy to SWA with your ACOG.

Otherwise, I could get a quality Leupold variable scope for that price.




I don't know of a variable scope that has as large a field of view, works as well in low light, or is as small and lightweight as the ACOG.

For close in work the ACOG TA01 has a wider field of view than any 3x scope I know of. It simply cannot be beat by any other AR mountable scope.

Variable magnification would be great, but until it is matched with a wide field of view and low light capability, I'll pass on it for anything other than paper targets or non-bipedal critters.

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