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Posted: 9/15/2004 7:11:48 PM EST
OK.... here, so be gentle. I have my Model1 16" A3 upper with detachable Carry Handle with standard A2 sights (at least that is what I ordered). It has 2 apertures both seem REALLY small. The unmarked one, I cannot put a 0.7mm pencil lead thru it. The '0-2' one is bigger, but will not let a 1/16" allen wrench pass thru it. The elevation knob does not have the 8/3, 4, 5, etc markings I'm reading about in Improved Battlesight Zero instructions and in other manuals. Instead, the elevation knob has '0' when it is fully down, and the following additional numbers: 5, 10, 15, 20 - each is 5 clicks apart. The knob will rotate about 2.5 times (passing 20 twice) before it stops with the sight all the way up. Presumably, the scale on mine is "clicks" not "hundreds of meters" (decimeter?). Any idea what each click means 0.5 MOA I'm SO confused! Anybody recognize this Pointers to docs on this particular sight

The idea of the IBZ as I understand it is to zero at 50 yards which puts POI within 2" of POA all the way out to 225 yards. Thus you should tweak the range scale down 2 clicks at 50yd zero, then when you are on "8/3", you will hit POA at 300 meters. I guess if my sight is "clicks" and not "hundreds of meters" then one needn't tweak down the scale.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:12:05 PM EST
Did you post this before?

If not then you bought a sight from the same place that somebody else did. Where did you buy this from so we can all know not to buy from them.

The wheel that is marked 0/5/10... is a NM inidcator wheel. The aperture with the small holes is a NM aperture. Since the rear sight base uses the same thread pitch as a NM sight base, I can only assume that somebody had a bunch of extra NM rear sight parts and though this would be one way of getting them off the warehouse shelves.

Take a look around, maybe in the optics and sights forum in this section, for another thread about these sights.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:50:15 AM EST
I have not posted this before... I'm a total noob. I bought it from Model1 sales. The kit had options of "detachable carry handle - $75" or "detachable carry handle with NM front - $83". I see that you can buy carry handles with standard or nm aperture for the same price of $95, but is apparently not an explicit offer on their kits. I'll go check out sights and possibly purchase or trade for standard... maybe I'll call Model1 and see if they can send me the right one and let me send this one back. Thanks for the 411.

(So the NM apertures are smaller and the scale is "clicks" - is a click 0.5 MOA?)
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:04:50 AM EST
Man I thought I was the only one! I just got my Model 1 upper yesterday and I'v e got the same thing. I'll have to call them.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:05:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
I have not posted this before... I'm a total noob. I bought it from Model1 sales. The kit had options of "detachable carry handle - $75" or "detachable carry handle with NM front - $83". I see that you can buy carry handles with standard or nm aperture for the same price of $95, but is apparently not an explicit offer on their kits. I'll go check out sights and possibly purchase or trade for standard... maybe I'll call Model1 and see if they can send me the right one and let me send this one back. Thanks for the 411.

(So the NM apertures are smaller and the scale is "clicks" - is a click 0.5 MOA?)



I dunno bout the clicks but them national match apertures will be much smaller, IIRC.

Never had any experience with them but you can see the difference in some pics... can't find any links right now


- BG

Uhh, in other words, you done got yourself a NM rear aperture... hopefully the Model1 guys will take care of ya
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:20:46 AM EST
Is there any reason to keem the NM rear sight? What are the benifits. The thing I don't like is that it would be hard to see in low-light applications. Is there really an accuracy difference?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:24:04 AM EST
NM apertures are very small and the front sight post would also be wickedly skinny.

I thought every NEWB bought an EOTech, though. Where do you get off having irons sights at all! LOL!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:43:23 AM EST
Irons RULE! None of my guns need batteries!!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:56:25 AM EST
Less chance to break!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:17:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 5:17:42 AM EST by pa-gunslinger]
I just called Model 1 sales and they said that they send NM sights on everything unless you specify otherwise. I just checked the website again and the two options are A3 w/ detachable carry handle $75 and A3 with detachable handle and NM front sight $83 extra. Nowhere does it say that NM sights are standard. I have been told to ship the whole thing back (at my cost) and they will swap it out. I don't think that is a fair solution since thier site isn't very clear.

I'd rather buy the standard rear sight kit from ADCO than go with Model 1. The fit and finish is great, but the service isn't.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:27:19 AM EST
While it may not be exactly what you wanted, at least they gave you a more expensive part than you expected rather than a cheaper part than you expected.

I would just sell it on the equipment exchange and buy a standard one if that is what you would rather have.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:32:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:
While it may not be exactly what you wanted, at least they gave you a more expensive part than you expected rather than a cheaper part than you expected.

I would just sell it on the equipment exchange and buy a standard one if that is what you would rather have.



Yeah... I emailed Model1, proposing they send me a DetCH with standard sights and I'll send them this one back. We'll see. If they are going to be difficult, I may just grab a standard A2 aperture and keep the rest of the sight... if I can JUST figure out what each click means. I'm guessing 0.5" MOA per click. I do not plan on engaging tactical targets beyond 200 yards anyway.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:17:36 AM EST
nm sights should be 1/4 minute of angle clicks


just drill the holes to match your std stuff, or trade me the arpeture for the one you have

i have the std one for spare parts
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:23:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
IronsTrijicons RULE! None of my guns need batteries!!!



Fixed it for ya'.LOL
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:26:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:30:23 AM EST by pa-gunslinger]
Is it possible to put a NM front sight post on an A2 FSB instead of swapping the whole thing? I may just keep the NM stuff and try it out and go with the standard if I don't like it. Also, NM sight compensate for BD out to the same distance and standard or is the distance reduced since it has 1/4 moa clicks?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:27:52 AM EST
Free NM sights

Sign me up. Might be time to order that kit.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:38:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:39:27 AM EST by cwd10]
I had this problem with my Model 1, and J&T kits. Here's a link to the threads.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=153604

I'm still a little confused but I got used to it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:26:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By pa-gunslinger:
Is it possible to put a NM front sight post on an A2 FSB instead of swapping the whole thing?

Depends on the front sight post. NM front sights have two properies that make them different than regular sights. The first property is that they have finer threads than normal. That allows you to have a much more exact zero with your match ammo but it also means that you are using more fragile threads. Shouldn't be an issue since the front sight post is protected, but...

The other quality is that they are usaully a narrower post so that you can use them more accurately at longer ranges. You might be able to find a post that has normal threads so it will work with your current front sight base but have the narrower post so that it would work better with your small-aperture rear. But sights like those will be much slower at closer ranges so it depends what kind of shooting you want to do.


I may just keep the NM stuff and try it out and go with the standard if I don't like it. Also, NM sight compensate for BD out to the same distance and standard or is the distance reduced since it has 1/4 moa clicks?

NM sights work at the same distances as a normal but they have finer threads so that the zero can be more exact. This applies both to the elevation wheel and to the windage adjustment. If you replace the rear aperture then you'll need to replace the windage screw as well so that the threads will match.

Note that national match rear sights and detachable carry handle rear sights use the same thread pitch for hte elavation adjustment. To make it a standard rear sight you'll only need to replace the indicator wheel to a 6/3 instead of a the 0-20 and replace the aperture and windage screw. You could keep the existing indicator wheel if you want. The markings on standard elevation wheels are only accurate if you are using ammunition that matches what they were designed for.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:31:53 AM EST
Oly did the same thing a while back. They werent very interested in fixing it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:51:46 AM EST

Hoplophile said (among other things):
NM sights work at the same distances as a normal but they have finer threads so that the zero can be more exact. This applies both to the elevation wheel and to the windage adjustment. If you replace the rear aperture then you'll need to replace the windage screw as well so that the threads will match.



Dammit! I was thinking I could just get a different aperture. But looks like I'll need a different screw... I didnt mind the finer adjustment of windage and elevation so much, but the size of the aperture is just so close to unuseable! Model1 says I'll have to ship them back the detachable before they'll ship me one with the standard aperture. :( I'm now thinking of just drilling out the "0-2" aperture.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 1:23:29 PM EST
Damn, if you want I will swap you a standard rear sight set for your national match set.
Let me know.
I really like match sights.....
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