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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/13/2006 4:37:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 7:40:41 AM EDT by jackal2001]
Per the bushmaster manual it states to:

Generously lube the bolt, its cam pin area, the bolt gas rings. A lighter application is better on the extractor and its pin.


My question is I was shooting some IMI .223 ammo (about 200 rounds) and when I was cleaning my gun I noticed that the bolt wasn't moving freely in the carrier. There was a gunk that built up. I normally only put a very light coat of CLP using a Q-tip inside the carrier for the bolt to slide easier, but now looking at it, maybe I shouldn't.
Could the small amount of CLP in conjunction with the carbon make a gunky paste? Should I not put any CLP in the bolt carrier and keep it dry?
???
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:31:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 11:14:57 AM EDT
You worry way too much. The M16 was designed by a genius to be used by morons. Anything you do will work fine. Derrick Martin uses grease, some people use CLP. Just use somthing and forget about it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:40:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 1:06:13 PM EDT by Tempest45]

Originally Posted By KurtVF:
You worry way too much. The M16 was designed by a genius to be used by morons. Anything you do will work fine. Derrick Martin uses grease, some people use CLP. Just use somthing and forget about it.



In general I have to agree with this, but...


Could the small amount of CLP in conjunction with the carbon make a gunky paste?


That has been my experience. I recommend switching to a better lube (Eezox, FP10, Corrosion X, Mil comm, etc.).

ETA: ALL metal parts should have a light coating of oil. Especially moving surfaces.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:54:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 1:01:06 PM EDT by jackal2001]
Any one of those in particular that you recommend over the other?

Looking at Mil-comm, what would I want, oil or grease?

I also heard a lot of people using Mobil 1.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 2:08:35 PM EDT

Any one of those in particular that you recommend over the other?


FP10. Probably the best lube out there. Very good cleaner. Good corrosion protection. NO solvents or other nasties so it is very nose (smells like cinnamon) and people friendly. NO solids to gum up over time (Moly, Teflon). Self spreading and cleaning gets easier the more you use it. Very good and easy to use stuff.

I also like Eezox because it starts out as an oil (with a strong smell) but eventually turns to a dry film lube. Not as easy to use, and should be used with good ventilation, but it's corrosion protection is almost legendary. It contains a strong solvent (hence the smell) so it is not as people friendly.

Corrosion X is also good, but I have less experience with it. Look into the Aviation product. It is better in my IMHO.

My experience with Mil comm is limited. I use TW25B for sear engagement surfaces only. I don't like grease for any other part of a gun. Oil is always preferred for any application that it can be used.
Grease=Sticky=High Viscosity=Slow moving parts. The faster a part moves (i.e. bolt/carrier) the greater the drag from the viscosity. Also, grease attracts a lot more debris than oil from my experience.

Blankwaffe98 uses Mil Comm oils extensively. He has done a LOT of homework on gun lubes. He should be along shortly to say more about their stuff.

As far as Motor oil...this is what the designer of FP10 (a certified lube engineer) has to say about it:

Ok...lets look at the "requirements and needs" picture and ask the question, "Does your gun need the following additives and/or characteristics found in a motor oil"?

Does it need dispersants to keep insoluble materials suspended? - No

Does it need Pour Point Depressants to prevent or inhibit growth of wax crystals at reduced temperatures? - No

Does it need Detergents to suspend or deter deposit formation? - No

Does it need Oxidation Inhibitors to decompose peroxides, inhibit free radical formation and passivate exposed metals? - No. There are different agents at work here than Peroxides and the like so we need different chemistries.

Does it need Corrosion Inhibitors to neutralize acid materials and form protective films on metal surfaces? - Yes

Does it need Rust Inhibitors to provide protective, water-repellent films? - Yes, but based on the chemistry of the need, once again.

Does it need Foam Inhibitors to reduce surface tension and allow air bubbles to separate more readily? - No

Does it need Metal Deactivators to form inactive protective films? - Yes, but once again, the need is dictated by the environmental conditions.

Does it need Antiwear, Extreme-Pressure, Oiliness and Film-Strength Agents to form a shear strength that protects the base metals, to reduce friction and prevent welding and seizure if and when the oil film is ruptured? - Yes, indeed...but I can guarantee you, as a long time member of SAE, that these are never enough and designed to meet the "minimum" requirements.



Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:00:51 PM EDT
Few drops of CLP will do

sometimes I use clp and a rag wipe it down!
just do what the manual says it works for me
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:10:40 PM EDT
good stuff here.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:23:56 PM EDT
I might also give XF7 a try. that is supposed to be more like a dry lube and from what I heard performed very well.

I am not just looking for an oil, clp can do that fine. My issue was the CLP with the carbon formed a gunk in between the bolt and carrier and it won't slide freely, it was gummed up a little.

Now if I use a dry lube of some sort that problem should be eliminated. If I use any type of oil that problem may still re-occur.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:03:16 PM EDT
I have never used XF-7 so I cannot comment on it directly. My understanding is that it is thick grease that is slathered on. By their own information, it is designed to stay in place and not move. This sounds good until one realizes that there are plenty of small nooks and crevasses on any firearm that need corrosion protection. Oil (good ones) will spread to these areas and provide protection. Because it is a grease, it has the same down sides as all greases that I posted above.

The instructions also say that you have to have a near perfectly clean metal surface in order for the XF-7 to adhere and work as advertised. This can be done with other cleaners, but it takes quite a bit of work, and would be much more difficult in a field environment to attain. The XF-7 instruction also call for Motor oil to be used on the bolt under certain circumstances. This is the area that you are most concerned with. And I think the fact that they recommend a different lube other than their own is telling.

FP10 lifts dirt off of surfaces and keeps new dirt suspended above the metal so it can be wiped off easily. This is a primary reason why I recommend it. It does not burn off or evaporate like ordinary CLP. It's all oil or additives unlike just about every other product out there that uses solvents that evaporate into the air.

In my experience with Eezox (a true dry lube) the action does get a little rougher the more the gun is fired. This is because debris still sticks to it, and that debris gets into the works causing friction. FP10 is actually a little better in this regard because it suspends the debris in the oil, rather than have it build up on the surface. With that said, I have had no malfs with my AR while using Eezox, and clean up is super easy. Carbon and debris just wipe right off. A little more to re-lube and clean and done.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:40:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 5:00:06 PM EDT by jackal2001]
well I found this for corrosion:
www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

I think I have to order some eezox and give it a try. Although after reading their site it says to use it on everything including the bore of the barrel. I guess that would be great for rust protection.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:03:26 AM EDT
I have used BF clp. FP-10, Tetra grease, millcomm tw25b grease, g96, and ezzox, all of them will work.

Generally I to much lube to where my rifle spits it out for the first magazine. No sand here so I run the rifles wet.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:25:27 AM EDT
Yep, no sand here.

I must have been shooting some really dirty stuff in order for it to gunk up my bolt in only 200 rounds or so.

I ordered some eezox already.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:59:32 AM EDT
I found that if ezzox is left as a heavy wet oil, in the winter months a 1911 slide will cycle slow. It is supposed to used a dry lube, sometimes I just dont have time to let the stuff dry as i should. Never caused a hicup, just kind of funny to see.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:15:12 AM EDT
Do you put eezox on the outside of your firearms? I know it is a great rust protectant but I normally just use a little clp and wipe them down until they are dry.

My handguns can sit a year or longer without being touched so I guess it would be a good idea to go over them entirely with eezox inside and out (making sure not to leave puddles)
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:03:27 AM EDT
WHEN i USE A LUBE ANY LUBE I USE IT FOR THE WHOLE RIFLE.

for ezzox read and follow the instructions. It is not your normal lube follow the instructions you will have a verry rust resistent low friction firearm.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:12:17 AM EDT
YOU NEED 87 DROPS OF LUBE IN THE BOLT GROUP!

Research has proven this!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:15:38 AM EDT
No wonder I had this problem. I put 88 drops of lube in and that is what caused it. Thanks for clearing that up.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:52:09 AM EDT
Here in Utah we have mucho dust during the summer and it gets hot. I genrally run my rifles VERY dry and never have I had any problems. The key in dry dusty areas is to buy parts with high lubricity so you don't need as much lube. People may laugh at me for doing so but I bought a Titanium coated bolt carrier and bolt and a Chrome plated bolt carrier and bolt so that I don't need as much gunk-attracting oil. Also a good way to prevent especially fibers and stuff from gunking up is to wipe all your parts down with an anti-static cloth such as a dryer sheet before you oil them.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 4:59:21 PM EDT by bigkracka]
Tempest, do you work for FP10? I've used it, didn't seem any better than anything else I've tried. Breakfree did very well in the corrosion tests, FP did not. After trying everything I still use CLP.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:01:56 PM EDT
I use fp-10 while its not the best at stopping rust, I have yet to have a firearm rust while using it. I cant say the same for other lubes i have used.

3 reasons I use fp-10

1. it works
2. made in PA
3. did i say it works.

BF CLP fp-10, etc, etc, all work. Some just better than others and a samll difference if that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:31:21 PM EDT

Tempest, do you work for FP10?


No. My chosen career has nothing to do with chemicals. Instead, I have done a lot of research on lubes and have done a lot of reading of information written by the designer of FP10. So far, all of the information that he has written has checked out.

FP10 is the best liquid based oil product that I have ever used, and (for me) has done everything that the manufacturer has claimed. My reasons for liking the product are clearly stated here.

I also recommended 3 other good products and my reasons for liking them. I simply laid out my opinions and let the reader make of it what they will.

In my experience, BreakFree is an inferior product. Poor cleaner, runs everywhere, evaporates quickly, Teflon settles out in the container, is a debris magnet (which the original poster was also complaining about), etc. None of these things have happened (to me) using FP10. In the many non-standardized tests seen on the internet, FP10 is not the best corrosion protector. But I have yet to see anyone complain about a real firearm rusting that was protected by FP10. This is not true of other products that are out there.
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