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Posted: 10/1/2004 11:28:08 AM EST
I mean...other than the ability to correctly attach a bayonet.
It seems to me that is the only real reason.

How much velocity is actually lost due to a 1.5" shorter tube?

I have read posts here about authenticity concerning asthetics.

Hells Bells for me The lug and FH are both asthetics issues. I will probably never attach a bayonet or shoot in the dark
Never mind the fact I am currently having my clintonized Bushy refitted with both.
That is just because I can!!!!!!!!
The stupid assed ban served no purpose but to be a potential stepping stone to ban all guns.


GOD HELP US IF THE LOONIES ELECT KERRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry got a little off track...for a sec!

The way I see it, this is whole argument is a non-issue. A Typical "REAL" M4 is issued with a 14.5" tube and an A2 FH , Right?
How would a "civilianzed" 14.5 " tube with a non removeable Phantom FH be any more authentic or astetically pleasing than a 16" tube with a replaceable A2 FH?

Anybody here used one of those clamp on Bayo lugs? Likes, dislikes other than ugly?

I just got back from visiting CMMG and dropping off my Bushy for the refit. I checked out some of their rifles. The 16" carbines and 16"Mod4s are sweet.

I am leaning very heavily towards buying one of their 16" Mod4 rifles.
It just feesl a little more "Evil"have
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:30:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 11:31:08 AM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By 1MissouriMule:

That is just because I can!!!!!!!!



I think you answered your own question... Plus I think 16" barrels look silly...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:45:26 AM EST
I use only the 16" because it makes it easyer to swap out muzzle devices LEGALLY if you wish to do so. With the current muzzle legel length being 16", Id hate to have to mess with perma attaching a FH and then having to remove it later to swap it for a different one......
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:00:39 PM EST
a 16" barrel plus an A2 hider is an inch longer overall than a 14.5" with extended hider.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:01:57 PM EST
It looks good! ........Velocity loss, 55gr winchester 68-fps




Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:07:57 PM EST
I prefer the look, weight, length and level of flash suppression over a 16 with A2. Plus when I bought mine LMT only sold 14.5s.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:08:23 PM EST
I 'm stuck with a 16'' barrel but out of choice because I considered having my faux muzzle brake /post ban flash hider what ever it really is other than window dressing , turned off and then I could get the same looking flash hider that I have now except there would be a bigger hole in the front and I would be able to put other FH's on that look like it , so I just drilled out the front of my muzzle brake and will suffer thru the long nights without active threads on my barrel , but like the thread asks whats the point in a 14" barrel if its got to be permanent unless you get it registered . So I feel for once I reached a vialbe alternative with my AR .
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:20:01 PM EST
Quite a few of us are in the military. Most of use barely get to shoot our issue weapons. Those of us int he Army rarely EVER get a chance to shoot at paper targets past 25 meters. Green tip ammo is easy to come by - that, plus 1 14.5 inch barrel on our private weapons is the ONLY chance most of us will get to see where exactly we are hitting at verious distances.

FWIW, I also have two 20" barreled ARs, and two 16" barreled ARs (well, one is soon going to have my new 14.5" - I haven't made my no-ban mods yet). Variety is the spice of life.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:23:23 PM EST
The 14.5" M4 barrels kick ass! The weight is perfect and it handles well. The 16" barrels are a little heavier and they just don't look right.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:28:08 PM EST
Slightly shorter overall for perceived CQB needs, and it looks cool.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:28:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I prefer the look, weight, length and level of flash suppression over a 16 with A2.



Please explain this further. Length is only 1" difference and level of flash suppression???
I prefer the 16" because I don't want to permanently mount anything to my rifle and want the ability to add a suppressor.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:31:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I prefer the look, weight, length and level of flash suppression over a 16 with A2.



Please explain this further. Length is only 1" difference and level of flash suppression???
I prefer the 16" because I don't want to permanently mount anything to my rifle and want the ability to add a suppressor.



Just buy another, you can't have too many!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:33:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Variety is the spice of life.



Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:51:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I prefer the look, weight, length and level of flash suppression over a 16 with A2.



Please explain this further. Length is only 1" difference and level of flash suppression???
I prefer the 16" because I don't want to permanently mount anything to my rifle and want the ability to add a suppressor.



If I want to suppress my rifle I will have my smith remove my Phantom or Vortex and install a bilock. NFA is out of the question for me, at my age and in this state though.

A 14.5 with a good FS has less flash than a 16 with A2, and they are a similar length.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:14:55 PM EST
Okay, here goes:

Standard military ammo from 20" barrel: 120 yards reliable fragmentation
Standard military ammo from 16" barrel: 90 yards reliable fragmentation
Standard military ammo from 14.5" barrel: 65 yards reliable fragmentation

As you can see, you lose almost the same amount of fragmentation range going from 20" to 16" as you do going from 16" to 14.5"!!
The differences are a bit less pronounced with other ammo, such as XM193, but the difference between 16" and 14.5" is still significant.

Also with a 14.5" barrel you can't change muzzle devices. Why get all stingy over an extra 1.5" of barrel? I can sort of see that taking that extra 1.5" off would help controllability a little bit, but only because most barrels are heavy past the handguards. My first AR is going to have a superlight barrel, so it won't be an issue.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:15:15 PM EST
14.5+welded Compensator tells the world you are smarter than the idiot with a 11.5+welded Compensator but not as smart as the guy with 16+threaded Compensator.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:21:34 PM EST
Just do the 14.5" as a SBR (like I did) and then there is nothing welded or any other stupid bullshit on it that don't belong.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:23:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
14.5+welded Compensator tells the world you are smarter than the idiot with a 11.5+welded Compensator but not as smart as the guy with 16+threaded Compensator.



Lol, thats an interesting way to put it. I have never had to remove a FSB anyway, so its not an issue. With 77gr I ought to be doing just fine, besides, I am unlikely to ever use this rifle to defend myself from a man farther than 25 m anyway. Beyond that it could be hard to prive as self defense.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:31:15 PM EST
The length you save is minimal to be forced into a WELDED flash hider.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:35:24 PM EST
If your concerned with weight the 14.5" is lighter.
If your concerned with length the 14.5" is shorter.
If you want to use a suppressor use a Bilock flash hider on your 14.5" barrel.
If you want fragmentation beyond 100m then use Hornady TAP 75 grain ammo through your 14.5" barrel..

I can see NO REASON a 16" barrel would be any better than a 14.5" barrel for my uses. It has only negatives and I see no reason anyone would purchase and use a 16" barrel when you can use the beter 14.5" barrel. How many of you have shot a person beyond 100m??!?!?....... I rest my case.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:39:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 1:42:20 PM EST by DevL]

Originally Posted By bigkracka:
The length you save is minimal to be forced into a WELDED flash hider.



Well if you use a Bilock Flash hider it must be semi permanantly attached anyway with high temp sealant.... not easily removed nor any reason to use a non standrd muzzle devise and throw off yur POI and not be able to use your sound suppressor. If you dont have a suppressor and use a Vortex or Phantom why in the world would you want to remove a flash hider?

If I want a different configuration I can send it off to a smith to put the new gear and muzzle device on. Either that or build a new upper... they are not expensive.

Once I get my rifle SBR I will use a 10.5" barreled upper since that covers about 99.9% of the needs for me for a rifle used in self defense.

WHAT FANTASYLAND DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN WHERE YOU NEED TO SHOOT AT PEOPLE BEYOND 100 YARDS? You need to quit day dreaming about how that extra few fps is going to save your life during TEOTWAWKI and understand that 10.5" and 11.5" barrels are fine if you dont put 5.5" flash hiders on them.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:39:45 PM EST
Because their damn sexy!!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:56:56 PM EST
My 11.5 COMMANDO serves a purpose ; I did not see the need for a 20" or 24" inside my home . My 20" W/ 42mm Obj. serves a purpose ...............let's be practical .
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:20:41 PM EST
Sorry, it is just much more cool than a 16" bbl.

A folding stock and a short bbl can sit on your lap while piloting your M1 Abrams across the desert sand. Try that with your noob 16" bbl. (JUST KIDDING!!)

I have one and I like the compact nature of it. I got a 1/7 twist bbl so I'm going to shoot nothing but 62gr+ through it.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:20:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:

WHAT FANTASYLAND DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN WHERE YOU NEED TO SHOOT AT PEOPLE BEYOND 100 YARDS? You need to quit day dreaming about how that extra few fps is going to save your life during TEOTWAWKI and understand that 10.5" and 11.5" barrels are fine if you dont put 5.5" flash hiders on them.



If I ever NEED to I want the extra barrel length. Its better to have more barrel and not need it than too short and want more.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:24:49 PM EST
For one thing, the paper targets I shoot at don't care... For another thing, a 14.5 inch barrel is still able to kill a man way past 100 yards... For another thing I want it and that is good enough reason...

I have a phantom on my rifle and would not even take it off if it were NOT permanently attached...

You could use this same argument with half a dozen other guns and styles, like for instance ASSAULT RIFLES... Just like the Anti's did in 94... "Why do you need assault weapons, who would hunt with one of those?" Because it is my F%$@#*g right to be able to own one...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:44:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:
For one thing, the paper targets I shoot at don't care... For another thing, a 14.5 inch barrel is still able to kill a man way past 100 yards... For another thing I want it and that is good enough reason...

I have a phantom on my rifle and would not even take it off if it were NOT permanently attached...

You could use this same argument with half a dozen other guns and styles, like for instance ASSAULT RIFLES... Just like the Anti's did in 94... "Why do you need assault weapons, who would hunt with one of those?" Because it is my F%$@#*g right to be able to own one...




+1
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:44:43 PM EST
For the guys that DO have the 14.5 BBL's with perm' attached FH's.....how did you attach or have the flash-hider attached?

I'm going to have 5 BBL's done next week for a group buy some friends and I are doing (10 Model-1 kits. 5 guys wanted 14.5 bbls on "M-4's") and I'm wondering what the best route to go for this is?

I visited with Bob Imel at P.A.W.S. (Police automatic weapons) today and he said we could blind-pin or silver solder and quoted me some really good rates for doing the work.

What I'm wondering though is, if you have a soldered FH, is there any visible affect on the finish of the BBL or FH from the heat applied?

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:52:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Treadhead:
For the guys that DO have the 14.5 BBL's with perm' attached FH's.....how did you attach or have the flash-hider attached?

I'm going to have 5 BBL's done next week for a group buy some friends and I are doing (10 Model-1 kits. 5 guys wanted 14.5 bbls on "M-4's") and I'm wondering what the best route to go for this is?

I visited with Bob Imel at P.A.W.S. (Police automatic weapons) today and he said we could blind-pin or silver solder and quoted me some really good rates for doing the work.

What I'm wondering though is, if you have a soldered FH, is there any visible affect on the finish of the BBL or FH from the heat applied?




I replaced the entire "post ban" barrel with a no banner.

Steve
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:00:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 4:01:32 PM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By Treadhead:
For the guys that DO have the 14.5 BBL's with perm' attached FH's.....how did you attach or have the flash-hider attached?

I'm going to have 5 BBL's done next week for a group buy some friends and I are doing (10 Model-1 kits. 5 guys wanted 14.5 bbls on "M-4's") and I'm wondering what the best route to go for this is?

I visited with Bob Imel at P.A.W.S. (Police automatic weapons) today and he said we could blind-pin or silver solder and quoted me some really good rates for doing the work.

What I'm wondering though is, if you have a soldered FH, is there any visible affect on the finish of the BBL or FH from the heat applied?




I had mine done by ADCO, it is pinned on. I had a 16" barrel with a pressed on fake break(16" OAL) and they cut my barrel down and supplied the Phantom and installed it and shipped it back for a grand total of $89.00 I think this is a reasonable price seeing as it includes the cost of the flash hider and they are the best at this in my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:01:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 4:03:12 PM EST by DevL]

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By DevL:

WHAT FANTASYLAND DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN WHERE YOU NEED TO SHOOT AT PEOPLE BEYOND 100 YARDS? You need to quit day dreaming about how that extra few fps is going to save your life during TEOTWAWKI and understand that 10.5" and 11.5" barrels are fine if you dont put 5.5" flash hiders on them.



If I ever NEED to I want the extra barrel length. Its better to have more barrel and not need it than too short and want more.



My rifle is shorter, handier and lighter EVERY DAY. Your rifle will NEVER see the need for that extra 1.5" of barrel. If I need to shoot at people 150-200 yards away I wont be defending myself... I also wont be using an AR to do it.

I do admit that I hate having the flash hider welded on which makes FF forearms permanant. However I will register my lower as a SBR in the future so future builds wont have that issue.

Edited to add...

You want to blind pin it on so the barrel is not heated so much and possibly harmed. It will not hrm the finish of the rifle.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:05:19 PM EST
Why do people think an M4 with a 14.5" barrel is not deadly past 100 yards? Has any of you ever seen anyone shot at this distance or are you just relying on what you have "heard"?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:05:58 PM EST
"get both"
(okay, I know the questioin wasn't asked but I just had to say it)

a 16" barrel AR for when you feel the need to change muzzle devices
a 14.5" barrel AR with permanent flash supressor for when it absolutely must be as short as possible.

And if I need to shoot at anything past 65 yards, I'm getting my brother's FAL or my Garand (or a 20" AR).
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:28:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 4:30:10 PM EST by Alien]
If our military had always used 16" barrels I bet all you proponents of 14.5 inch barrels would be singing about 16" barrels instead.

I have a 16 incher by the way. Better to have the extra range, "killing power," and swappability of muzzle devices and not need it than to need it and not have it. You save time and money in the long run by getting a 16" barrel if you plan to attach a suppressor. I wonder how many of you say flip up iron sights are crap instead of fixed sights because one day you may need that half a second to shoot instead of spending it flipping up your sights after your optic goes down.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:31:30 PM EST
I don't plan on adding a supressor, I don't need one. I don't want to switch flash hiders, I got the one I have because I like the one I have. 14.5" provides enough killing power for me.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:35:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:
If our military had always used 16" barrels I bet all you proponents of 14.5 inch barrels would be singing about 16" barrels instead.




You are probably right on this one. Seems to be good enough for them though.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:40:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By Treadhead:
For the guys that DO have the 14.5 BBL's with perm' attached FH's.....how did you attach or have the flash-hider attached?

I'm going to have 5 BBL's done next week for a group buy some friends and I are doing (10 Model-1 kits. 5 guys wanted 14.5 bbls on "M-4's") and I'm wondering what the best route to go for this is?

I visited with Bob Imel at P.A.W.S. (Police automatic weapons) today and he said we could blind-pin or silver solder and quoted me some really good rates for doing the work.

What I'm wondering though is, if you have a soldered FH, is there any visible affect on the finish of the BBL or FH from the heat applied?




I had mine done by ADCO, it is pinned on. I had a 16" barrel with a pressed on fake break(16" OAL) and they cut my barrel down and supplied the Phantom and installed it and shipped it back for a grand total of $89.00 I think this is a reasonable price seeing as it includes the cost of the flash hider and they are the best at this in my opinion.



Thanks. I've known Bob Imel for over 20 yrs and the deal he's giving me would be impossible to beat but I've heard that ADCO does great work.

If I could pick your guys brains a little more? Although I'll go with the Phantom Or Vortex if I HAVE to I'd really like to find 5 of those extended "A2" style brakes that someone else mentioned in another thread that they got through J&T. J&T doesn't list them anymore and I'm wondering if anyone else makes one a little more "Conventional" looking?

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:40:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 5:08:33 PM EST by AR-shoot-r]

Originally Posted By Alien:
If our military had always used 16" barrels I bet all you proponents of 14.5 inch barrels would be singing about 16" barrels instead.

I have a 16 incher by the way. Better to have the extra range, "killing power," and swappability of muzzle devices and not need it than to need it and not have it. You save time and money in the long run by getting a 16" barrel if you plan to attach a suppressor. I wonder how many of you say flip up iron sights are crap instead of fixed sights because one day you may need that half a second to shoot instead of spending it flipping up your sights after your optic goes down.


I still think 16" M4 "type" barrels are gay. A real M4 barrel is 14.5" and if I'm going to build a M4 (or another, or another) then it will have a 14.5" barrel on it. My M4 with a BM 14.5" barrel shoots excellent @ 100yds. and that's a fact. I can't complain one bit.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:47:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:
If our military had always used 16" barrels I bet all you proponents of 14.5 inch barrels would be singing about 16" barrels instead.

I have a 16 incher by the way. Better to have the extra range, "killing power," and swappability of muzzle devices and not need it than to need it and not have it. You save time and money in the long run by getting a 16" barrel if you plan to attach a suppressor. I wonder how many of you say flip up iron sights are crap instead of fixed sights because one day you may need that half a second to shoot instead of spending it flipping up your sights after your optic goes down.



I don't see myself "swapping" muzzle devices. It is much easier to swap uppers or grab another rifle.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:52:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Treadhead:

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By Treadhead:
For the guys that DO have the 14.5 BBL's with perm' attached FH's.....how did you attach or have the flash-hider attached?

I'm going to have 5 BBL's done next week for a group buy some friends and I are doing (10 Model-1 kits. 5 guys wanted 14.5 bbls on "M-4's") and I'm wondering what the best route to go for this is?

I visited with Bob Imel at P.A.W.S. (Police automatic weapons) today and he said we could blind-pin or silver solder and quoted me some really good rates for doing the work.

What I'm wondering though is, if you have a soldered FH, is there any visible affect on the finish of the BBL or FH from the heat applied?




I had mine done by ADCO, it is pinned on. I had a 16" barrel with a pressed on fake break(16" OAL) and they cut my barrel down and supplied the Phantom and installed it and shipped it back for a grand total of $89.00 I think this is a reasonable price seeing as it includes the cost of the flash hider and they are the best at this in my opinion.



Thanks. I've known Bob Imel for over 20 yrs and the deal he's giving me would be impossible to beat but I've heard that ADCO does great work.

If I could pick your guys brains a little more? Although I'll go with the Phantom Or Vortex if I HAVE to I'd really like to find 5 of those extended "A2" style brakes that someone else mentioned in another thread that they got through J&T. J&T doesn't list them anymore and I'm wondering if anyone else makes one a little more "Conventional" looking?




Kurts Thats as good as I can do for ya...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:55:32 PM EST
It is a little more expensive but have you checked out the gem tech bi locks?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:59:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:
If our military had always used 16" barrels I bet all you proponents of 14.5 inch barrels would be singing about 16" barrels instead.



No I would still be wanting to get a 10.5" barrel to be as compact as possible and go with a 14.5" barrel for longer ranges. Id go shorter than 14.5" in a heartbeat if I could. I believe 14.5" is too much for anything but scoped "long range / out door" type of use.

14.5" = TA31
10.5" = Aimpoint


16"+ = .308

Just MHO
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:00:16 PM EST
Thanks DM'! That looks perfect.

Maybe I can talk 'em into a discount on a bunch lol

Thanks again man.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:05:15 PM EST
Any time dude...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:13:17 PM EST
I have a 14.5" m4 upper with a permanently attached phantom and a 16" m4 upper with a birdcage FS, and I really can't tell much difference. I silver soldered the phantom on the 14.5 myself with silver solder I purchased online and acetylene. It did f/up the finish on the phantom but with a little fine grain sandpaper and alumahyde it looks like it was done at the factory.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:17:10 PM EST


Its better to have more barrel and not need it than too short and want more.



Sounds alot like my personal life! I am perfectly content with my 16" with A2. It is an M4 profile 1/9 twist bushy barrel. To me, it is worth the extra 1.5" length to have a removable FH and a little extra velocity vs about 1" shorter, a perm attached break, less velocity, and I cant perceive any viable difference in balance and weight between the two. Just my thoughts...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:17:53 PM EST
I am going to take my M4 out to the range this weekend and re zero it at 25M and then shoot it from there to 300M just to see how well, or not so well it shoots. I would take pictures but as I have stated in other posts my digital camera kinda got lost somehow between here and the Jesse James farm house over last weekend.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:20:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-shoot-r:

Originally Posted By Alien:
If our military had always used 16" barrels I bet all you proponents of 14.5 inch barrels would be singing about 16" barrels instead.

I have a 16 incher by the way. Better to have the extra range, "killing power," and swappability of muzzle devices and not need it than to need it and not have it. You save time and money in the long run by getting a 16" barrel if you plan to attach a suppressor. I wonder how many of you say flip up iron sights are crap instead of fixed sights because one day you may need that half a second to shoot instead of spending it flipping up your sights after your optic goes down.


I still think 16" M4 "type" barrels are gay. A real M4 barrel is 14.5" and if I'm going to build a M4 (or another, or another) then it will have a 14.5" barrel on it. My M4 with a BM 14.5" barrel shoots excellent @ 100yds. and that's a fact. I can't complain one bit.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/rockytherotty/odm4.jpg



Mine is damn sexy also... BTW, nice rifle...

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:20:49 PM EST
I am in the other crowd....

I would never own a 14.5" weapon. Permanently installed anything sucks.

I have several 16" rifles...

I like the little extra muzzle velocity (every bit counts)
I like the fact I can change muzzle devices if I feel like it, and dont ever have to worry about the muzzle device being welded on when I want to install a free float, removing barrel nuts, FSB's, etc.... and this is something I do from time to time.
I dont care if a bayo wont fit "correctly" I can still install one and poke something.
I cant hardly tell the difference in looking at both lengths... so I sure dont think 16" M4's look gay.
1" longer.... big deal. I dont think that would matter much in the sandbox, or to us armchair warriors.
Weight difference? of 1.5" of barrel steel? You gotta be kidding me.

The AR is a very interchangeable platform.... and permanently attaching something to the muzzle just limits part of what is sooo cool about this rifle. Now, if we could all have 14.5" barrels legally... would I? I dunno.... maybe.... but until those welds arent required... I will stick with 16"

Thats just me... I know I am in the minority.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:23:48 PM EST
My permanently attached FS has not kept me from adding stuff to my rifle...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 5:41:09 PM EST
if you want an M4 profile the 16" barrels just dont look right....

I like the look of my 14.5" with a vortex....


if u want a 16" barrel, the lightweight pencil barrels are the way to go...
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