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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:08:42 AM EST
Okay, this question is probably so vague it might not be answerable, but what are your opinions. I have a stock rig with a 16" light barrel and I'm trying to see what the AR world would do first to get a straight shooting rifle. I already have good optics and mount and want to keep the length at 16".



1. Buttstock.
2. Trigger group
3. Barrel (chrome lined or not, I don't know)
4. Free Float

What do you think is most important?


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:12:37 AM EST
None of the above. The shooter is the most important followed by the bullet.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:30:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:31:05 AM EST by olds442tyguy]
Originally Posted By reelserious:
None of the above. The shooter is the most important followed by the bullet.


So how do you know the OP sucks at shooting? Did he say what ammo he was using?


I voted barrel. An uncomfortable stock or bad trigger can ruin your day though.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:30:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 8:30:38 AM EST by cckw]
barrel, ammo, shooter- weakest link of the 3 is the limit. get all three of those good enough then a good trigger will be of assistance, and free float also. buttstock just needs to be about the right length and give you a place to rest your cheek where you can look through the scope.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:45:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Touk:
Okay, this question is probably so vague it might not be answerable, but what are your opinions. I have a stock rig with a 16" light barrel and I'm trying to see what the AR world would do first to get a straight shooting rifle. I already have good optics and mount and want to keep the length at 16".



1. Buttstock.
2. Trigger group
3. Barrel (chrome lined or not, I don't know)
4. Free Float

What do you think is most important?




Barrel - throat and crown
Ammo/shooter
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:57:15 AM EST
The biggest limitation I have found in AR-15 accuracy has been ammo. Most respectable AR-15s seem capable of at 2 MOA accuracy, but that does not do you much good with 4 MOA ammo.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:34:59 AM EST
I'm not the best shooter but I do know the rules for steady shooting like breath control, trigger control, etc. I reload too, so i know which loads make a tighter group for my rifle generally, no expert for sure.
So if you take those two things out and say: If i spend some money on "xxxx" I will get a tight grouping if I do my part. I guess I should have said, What AR component is the foundation for accuracy?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:35:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By cckw:
barrel, ammo, shooter- weakest link of the 3 is the limit. get all three of those good enough then a good trigger will be of assistance, and free float also. buttstock just needs to be about the right length and give you a place to rest your cheek where you can look through the scope.


This
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:42:17 AM EST
The shooter by far. The worst shooter in the world is not going to shoot the best of everything rifle very well.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:23:26 PM EST
Shooter is the weakest link.

Next, I think is ammo. If everything else is GTG, most ammo will produce OK results, but some ammo will produce absolutely crappy results and there is nothing you can do about it (except use other ammo).

Next I say trigger. I say this because I believe the difference between a stock barrel and a top notch barrel is typically less than 1 MOA in accuracy. A shitty stock trigger can hurt you a lot more than that from my experience.

Next is barrel.

All that said, I still buy a gun for its barrel because I know that I can tailor the rest of the components with little difficulty. That does not mean that I am willing to spend a ton of money on a barrel. I look for a decent accuracy potential at a reasonable price.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:11:36 PM EST
The barrel is the soul of the rifle. It needs a good shooter to make it hum though.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:13:12 PM EST
If you are a bad shooter, and you shoot a gun that is capable of 1 MOA, then you will probably shoot 2-3 MOA. If you are a good shooter and shoot a gun that is 4 MOA. 4 MOA is the best you can shoot. if that is the case, the gun will always out shoot the shooter, making you a better shooter. right or wrong?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:10:05 PM EST
Touk

but what are your opinions.


My opinion..... Folks get to wrapped around the axle on the mechanics.... you are the most important piece of the puzzle..

I know most folks (especially guys) are born with the the thought that they can shoot well.. and truth be told, most of us suck.. sure we have moments of brilliance, but in general most of us can't be consistent enough to shoot good all the time... so we like to think that a supper match barrel or a super duper match trigger will make up for this... fact is, it won''t.... You will not outshoot 99% of all AR's out there..Spent your time working on Your mechanics... not the guns... spend the money on ammo.. Like Bigbore so famoulsy put it.. "It's the singer.....not the song"
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:56:29 PM EST
Accuracy is the combination of the mechanical precision of the gun and ammo, and most importantly the shooters' skill.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:54:23 PM EST
I can live with that. It's painfully and hurts like my first spankin' but i can live with it.

Oh, That's not going to stop me from buying shit for my AR because I prefer that over crack

So, i will go to the range this weekend and work at technique while i dream of the noveske barrel I wish my wife would buy me for Christmas. Eventually the skill will improve and i will get all that stuff and be badass.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:55:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Harv24:
Touk

but what are your opinions.


My opinion..... Folks get to wrapped around the axle on the mechanics.... you are the most important piece of the puzzle..

I know most folks (especially guys) are born with the the thought that they can shoot well.. and truth be told, most of us suck.. sure we have moments of brilliance, but in general most of us can't be consistent enough to shoot good all the time... so we like to think that a supper match barrel or a super duper match trigger will make up for this... fact is, it won''t.... You will not outshoot 99% of all AR's out there..Spent your time working on Your mechanics... not the guns... spend the money on ammo.. Like Bigbore so famoulsy put it.. "It's the singer.....not the song"


+1 For a real eye opener, check out a Hi Power match sometime. Those guys are all about mechanics first, equipment second.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:05:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Touk:
I can live with that. It's painfully and hurts like my first spankin' but i can live with it.

Oh, That's not going to stop me from buying shit for my AR because I prefer that over crack

So, i will go to the range this weekend and work at technique while i dream of the noveske barrel I wish my wife would buy me for Christmas. Eventually the skill will improve and i will get all that stuff and be badass.


I love the humility! Great attitude brother.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:59:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By bowslngr:
Originally Posted By Touk:
I can live with that. It's painfully and hurts like my first spankin' but i can live with it.

Oh, That's not going to stop me from buying shit for my AR because I prefer that over crack

So, i will go to the range this weekend and work at technique while i dream of the noveske barrel I wish my wife would buy me for Christmas. Eventually the skill will improve and i will get all that stuff and be badass.


I love the humility! Great attitude brother.

Yes, because every new member who asks a legitimate technical question needs to be told he can't shoot.

If this guy is a competent reloader as he says, I'd bet money he can out shoot all of these guys in here assuming he can't hit the broad side of a barn because his post count is low. I give him much credit though, because I'd be pissed if I registered on a site and asked a simple and straight forward technical question, and had a bunch of armchair jockeys come in and ignore my question to make assumptions about my abilities based solely on my post count.

To the OP, if you really do lack the skills as everyone assumes, I still see no problem with you wanting to learn on an accurate rifle. If your rifle were only capable of say 4MOA, how long will you fumble with it before you can safely assume who the culprit is for the inaccuracy. I've seen many people suffer through this with handguns and sub par rifles before, which is why I think that view point is only good for frustration. JMO.

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 9:51:26 AM EST
Accuracy is a function of consistency.

#1 is the shooter
#2 is the ammo.

Free float can make a big difference on a skinny barrel when you shoot with a sling, again, consistency. If you put the same amount of torque on the barrel every time with the sling it wouldn't matter, but that's functionally impossible.

A different trigger won't change the inherent accuracy of the rifle, but a good trigger sure makes it easier to shoot well. (see #1) I don't even bother to fire an AR-15 until I've dropped in a 2-stage trigger.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 10:16:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 4:00:29 PM EST by MagazineFed]
I just zeroed my M16A2 today(stock trigger, milspec everything, probably twice as old as me) with one ragged hole at 25m. If we were shooting at 100m, it would have been about 2 moa.

What I'm trying to get at is that the shooter has the biggest effect on accuracy. You can give an unexperienced shooter a match grade rifle and it won't shoot any better than a stock rifle off the shelf for him.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 4:14:41 PM EST
Olds442tyguy

Yes, because every new member who asks a legitimate technical question needs to be told he can't shoot.

If this guy is a competent reloader as he says, I'd bet money he can out shoot all of these guys in here assuming he can't hit the broad side of a barn because his post count is low. I give him much credit though, because I'd be pissed if I registered on a site and asked a simple and straight forward technical question, and had a bunch of armchair jockeys come in and ignore my question to make assumptions about my abilities based solely on my post count.

To the OP, if you really do lack the skills as everyone assumes, I still see no problem with you wanting to learn on an accurate rifle. If your rifle were only capable of say 4MOA, how long will you fumble with it before you can safely assume who the culprit is for the inaccuracy. I've seen many people suffer through this with handguns and sub par rifles before, which is why I think that view point is only good for frustration. JMO.


Truth hurts but there are few "good shooters". Most like to think they are, but reality is much different. His post count has little to do with it.. It is based on my observations on many a firearms range over an extended period of time... Everyone likes to throw money at the problem to make them a better shooter... no one whats to put it the work to do it... If you come for rainbows and Sunshine blown up your ass... well, I prefer truth and reality... I don't consider myself a good shooter either... that's why I continually work on the mechanics and practice....
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 7:30:22 PM EST
He asked what the leading mechanical component to obtain accuracy with in a rifle is. At least I don't remember seeing the "Fuck it, you suck at shooting" option in the poll.

That's what's wrong with this site now. Kind of like the guy who asked what 5.56 bullet will be the most stable to 800 meters. Instead of anyone actually telling him what it is, everyone came in telling him he's an idiot because it wouldn't reliably kill a human being at that range.

Lots of people can't shoot, you're right. But do we really need to have people post a 100 round .5MOA 500 yard group before we can answer a simple and straight forward technical question? I guess I've become an old timer in my late 20's. I remember when I joined this site, you got the exact answer to the exact question you asked, and you weren't an idiot for having recreational firearms in addition to your defense weapons.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:21:28 PM EST
I'm not a pro or anything, but I think consistency is the #1 key to accuracy.

Consistent ammo/loads
Consistent shooting positions
etc

Just my $0.02
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 10:18:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By reelserious:
None of the above. The shooter is the most important followed by the bullet.


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