Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/20/2005 12:56:15 PM EDT
What do you consider the better Military weapon system the Marine issue M16A4 with accessories or the Army M4 with accessories.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:08:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 1:09:50 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
I kinda like the 20" rifles over the carbines.
I have 2 of each, and the 16" are fun to shoot, but I just plain don't have problems with my 20" rifles.

I don't know. 20" if I am constantly out and have room to use an ACOG. M4 w/EOTech 552 if I'm clearing houses every day.

Warning: Everything above is my OPINION in a theoretical setting. Worth what you payed for it.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:00:32 PM EDT
I believe that the M4 is a far superior weapon for general issue. In the civilain world, the M4 type weapon makes even more sense, as civilians who solve interpersonal disagreements with rifles tend to do so at very short range.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:03:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I believe that the M4 is a far superior weapon for general issue. In the civilain world, the M4 type weapon makes even more sense, as civilians who solve interpersonal disagreements with rifles tend to do so at very short range.

Do you think that the 20in barrels bullet fragmentation range is wasted because it is not used very often.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:23:29 PM EDT
Being a Marine whenever we see a soldier or someone with an M4 we all drool over it, like it's the greatest thing ever.

I don't think they look at our M16A4s and do the same thing.

That's just how I see it, they'd be easier to carry, faster to acquire targets, and great for urban areas (the M4s). And personally I don't think I've ever seen a shot taken much over 150m anyway in combat.

At what distance does the M4 start to lose it's punch anyway?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:26:42 PM EDT
The M4 is the winner IMO, which is just an LEO opinion, but the M16A4 looks damn cool with optics and a vert grip!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:33:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I believe that the M4 is a far superior weapon for general issue. In the civilain world, the M4 type weapon makes even more sense, as civilians who solve interpersonal disagreements with rifles tend to do so at very short range.

Do you think that the 20in barrels bullet fragmentation range is wasted because it is not used very often.




I do. Time to get real. In the civilian world engagement ranges will be very short (they generally are in the military context these days also). The urban environment dominates these days. That means vehicles and buildings. I'll take the maneuverability of a 16" or less gun any day.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:36:41 PM EDT
M4 MWS, all my Marines who have the A4 want one of the few M4s I have.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:59:09 PM EDT
Door kicking: M4 with associated gadgets...

Open areas: A4 + bipod, 4x or higher power scope....
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:09:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I believe that the M4 is a far superior weapon for general issue. In the civilain world, the M4 type weapon makes even more sense, as civilians who solve interpersonal disagreements with rifles tend to do so at very short range.

Do you think that the 20in barrels bullet fragmentation range is wasted because it is not used very often.




I do. Time to get real. In the civilian world engagement ranges will be very short (they generally are in the military context these days also). The urban environment dominates these days. That means vehicles and buildings. I'll take the maneuverability of a 16" or less gun any day.



I agree with Lumpy. I had a chance this spring to talk at length with several veterans of the Battle of Fallujah. They said the longest shots they got with small arms were 35m or so. Thats pistol range, folks. They didn't need a 4x scope and a 200m fragmentation range. The slight loss of terminal ballistics is completey made up for by the light weight and short length of the carbine.

As a civilian, I believe my defensive needs would be best served by a 10.5 or 11.5 inch barrel. Something short and light. I compromise and end up with a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel, because of the NFA. Realistically speaking, in the unlikely event that I ever take a carbine to a self defense shooting, its going to be inside of 25m.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:12:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Door kicking: M4 with associated gadgets...

Open areas: A4 + bipod, 4x or higher power scope....



It would appear that a mix of reflex sights and magnified optics really enhances a small units performance. The Marines I talked to said that at the beginning of the war they would sometimes encounter groups of people at 1 or 2 hundred meters. The guy with the ACOG would peer through the scope, and would decide whether to, and who to fire on. ALL he would have to say is "take the two on the left" and the guys with iron or reflex sights would roll them up.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:12:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 4:13:01 PM EDT by JaketheSnake]
I don't know, theres something about a full size 20 inch AR that just feels super balanced to me. I like the way they look, feel and shoot. But they are long, not heavy to me but long.

M4 looks cool as well, but I'm talking about the 14.5 inch barrel and older style CAR stock.

From the first time I saw a M4 with ACOG, M203, and KAC silencer I thought to myself THAT is how a M4 should look period!

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:06:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:09:28 PM EDT
M4, hands down, especially with decent ammo.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:25:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 6:25:39 PM EDT by r4nger]
Hmm I'm in no way an expert and in no way totally knownledgable about the AR-15...M4 what have you....that is not yet. That being said IMHO...

The way I see it you have to look at what the individual is using the rifle for before you say OH this is totally better than this. If we are talking military I would have to agree with everyone that the M4 is the gun for todays army...urban comabt. However if we are talking the average joe who shoots at the range than I'm going to have to go with the AR-15(or M16 if we are trying to stick to M4vsM16)...the reason is the AR with its 20 in. barrel is just better for shooting at the range...more accurate. If your looking at it for home defense realistically what do you think the chances of needing it or it being in the right spot when you need are going to be? If I'm trying to defend my home I think I'll stick with a Glock and a pump shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:42:12 PM EDT
Are you asking about this to see what we think which one is "best", or because you want to get one for personal use?

If the latter is the case, why stick to a Government spec rifle? There is MUCH better out there, mostly COMERCIAL design parts...and the AR is indeed a parts gun, so pick what YOU think is the "best", build your own, and there, you have it, the "best" rifle...

My best? Well, since you asked:

Flattop 16" Midlength, Larue 9.0, PRI folding front sight/gas block, VLTOR telestock, Aimpoint/ACOG (undecided!)
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:07:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Are you asking about this to see what we think which one is "best", or because you want to get one for personal use?

If the latter is the case, why stick to a Government spec rifle? There is MUCH better out there, mostly COMERCIAL design parts...and the AR is indeed a parts gun, so pick what YOU think is the "best", build your own, and there, you have it, the "best" rifle...

My best? Well, since you asked:

Flattop 16" Midlength, Larue 9.0, PRI folding front sight/gas block, VLTOR telestock, Aimpoint/ACOG (undecided!)

I have both with all the gadgets and rail systems with the exception of the infr red laser illuminaters. Just wondering what everyone thinks of the two service weapons.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:49:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:13:00 AM EDT
Get Both!


Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:35:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
Get Both!


home.earthlink.net/~peter.nelson/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_2118-2.jpg

Got both mine are completely outfited with all possible accessories.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:56:30 AM EDT
i like the 20 inch. thats why i have the bushmaster 308! might as well knock the piss out of them, and butt stroke the MoFos. i'll leave the room clearing for all you younger folks with the M4 or the AR15 m4 types!
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:28:23 AM EDT
I have all of them but I would hope my son has access to a SOCOM for either scenario.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:29:13 AM EDT
I would go with the M4. The 14.5" barrel makes the gun fell more balanced. Here is a true M4(RO977)
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:39:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Luckyvbar:
I would go with the M4. The 14.5" barrel makes the gun fell more balanced. Here is a true M4(RO977)img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/luckyvbar/100_0216.jpg

I think what you have there is an M4A1 regular M4s are burst only no full auto.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:27:48 AM EDT
I like both. I had the A4 in Iraq and it did very well. I was never issued an M4 but seeing 1-24 Infantry's M4's, man the Army hooks it up.

Max
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 1:17:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
Get Both!


home.earthlink.net/~peter.nelson/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_2118-2.jpg

Got both mine are completely outfited with all possible accessories.



That's a bold statement.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 1:46:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 1:47:26 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By r4nger:
Hmm I'm in no way an expert and in no way totally knownledgable about the AR-15...M4 what have you....that is not yet. That being said IMHO...

The way I see it you have to look at what the individual is using the rifle for before you say OH this is totally better than this. If we are talking military I would have to agree with everyone that the M4 is the gun for todays army...urban comabt. However if we are talking the average joe who shoots at the range than I'm going to have to go with the AR-15(or M16 if we are trying to stick to M4vsM16)...the reason is the AR with its 20 in. barrel is just better for shooting at the range...more accurate. If your looking at it for home defense realistically what do you think the chances of needing it or it being in the right spot when you need are going to be? If I'm trying to defend my home I think I'll stick with a Glock and a pump shotgun.




Um - no.

The 20" barrel doesn't really make the rifle any more inherently accurate than a 16" barrel

(except for a longer sight radius, and less bullet drop at extended ranges)

Not trying to pick on you - just a factual correction.
Top Top