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Posted: 8/1/2009 9:38:34 AM EST
I just purchased a stripped S&W MP15 receiver for $200.00. I was looking at the DPMS lower parts kit (about $50.00)... Any opinions? Good or bad?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:39:12 AM EST
Spend the extra 20 bucks and get a Stag or Rock River.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:39:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 11:44:02 AM EST by smithc6]
Originally Posted By RyanH:
Spend the extra 20 bucks and get a Stag or Rock River.


+1

What pushed you towards that lower? Did you really want a S&W? I know a lower is a lower is a lower, but you could have saved money and got a much better lower than what you got at that price...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:42:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 9:42:51 AM EST by nicholsmf]
You paid $200 for a stripped lower no reason to start looking for reasonable prices now!

RRA and Stag are great kits. DPMS is a good kit too if you happen to get all the pieces with it. I use all 3
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:08:18 AM EST
Anvil Arms LPKs - $65.00
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:12:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:19:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 11:25:43 AM EST by GearHead_1]

Originally Posted By RyanH:
Spend the extra 20 bucks and get a Stag or Rock River.

I mean no offense here. I like Stag rifles just fine, that said, I wouldn't spend an extra penny to get their LPK. Both of the Stag kits I've used in the past year required significantly more "hand fitting" than either the Rock River's or DPMS's that I've used. This may have a lot to do with the period in which I purchased these parts kits. It was right in the middle of the "I can't find a LPK" time frame of a few months ago. I've posted about the experiences I had with these kits and at the end of they day they ended up just fine but took some hammering, polishing and grinding (particularly on the disconnecter) to get there.

If I were handed any one of these kits I would use it and be happy, I just wouldn't spend more money to get the Stag over the others. Find any of these kits as inexpensively as you can find them and get to work.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:21:13 AM EST
yep you paid too much for the lower. you can get Mega lowers for $110.00 . I realy like LMT LPK's, but they are hard to come by . the essental LPK would work amd if you let Bill Springfield smooth it out you will be very happy .
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:25:06 AM EST
I saw S&W lowers last weekend for $100
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:49:24 AM EST
The price paid for the lower is water under the bridge at this point. Don't feel bad about it, live and learn. You have it and it's yours. As far as getting a much better lower regardless of price is simply a matter of opinion. Your lower will work just dandy for years to come.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 11:58:09 AM EST
Wow... I feel retarded! I should have know better. I picked the S&W because I already have 15t... and love it. That being said, I probably got rooked. All be it... I will take the forums advise. I will also ask first later. Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 12:02:07 PM EST
Whether you feel you overpaid for the lower or not, don't scrimp on the LPK. Get a high-quality kit, like a Rock River kit, and you'll be much happier. The post above is the very first I've heard of anything from Stag not being top-notch. Makes me wonder if there was actually something going on other than a problem with Stag parts not being to spec.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:33:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 6:08:54 PM EST by GearHead_1]

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Whether you feel you overpaid for the lower or not, don't scrimp on the LPK. Get a high-quality kit, like a Rock River kit, and you'll be much happier. The post above is the very first I've heard of anything from Stag not being top-notch. Makes me wonder if there was actually something going on other than a problem with Stag parts not being to spec.

Like what? The builder? It's got to be the builder or the parts, right? I don't want to be overly defensive here and I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke up your skirt. I'm not going to tell you how knowledgeable or experienced I am. I'm not going to boast of the unbelievable numbers of rifles I've assembled or the awesome set of tools I own. I'm not going to tell you that you are guaranteed success when using a specific brand LPK and I won't tell you that my dad can beat up your dad.

It might be one of those things that you would have only believed if you had seen it. I wouldn't have commented on this had I not experienced it. I'll simply say that the disconnecter was bowl shaped in one kit (to the point that it would not fit in the trigger rail slot) and the secondary hammer hook on the other looked like a file with striations on it (it was that rough, no joke), it's disconnecter would hang. No upside down springs, no bolt catch/disconnecter spring mix up, just bad parts. These parts were pounded flat and ground/polished smooth, as I've already said, in the end they worked fine.

It's not uncommon on our site to see some automatically assume that the builder is the obvious problem in any given situation. Obviously at times that's the case, sometimes it's just exactly as claimed, no calipers, no micrometers or blue prints required to see the problem. If you have better luck using the search function than I do (I'm just a regular member with no long term back search capabilities) you'll see at least 3 other threads complaining of the same disconnecter problem I'm describing, 1 thread had pictures and several making the same claim. I commented in these threads also.

I've used Stag before with no issues, the two I got this year give me reason to make the comment that I did. I'll stand by that comment, I wouldn't pay more for Stag's LPK than I would for other brands. I didn't trash them, just called it according to what I've recently seen. I'm not trying to offend here, I'm simply saying that at times manufacturers send out junk parts even if the claim is mil-spec. They all do it. There are no Golden Cows and there certainly are others that have similar feelings with respect to seeing more sub-standard parts during the "I can't get parts" months. As far as the part of your post that says "much happier", I ask you much happier than using what? I've used inexpensive High Standard kits at times and been happy with the result. Is there a specific brand you recommend not using so as to be happy? So nuff' said, feel free to wonder away.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:46:53 PM EST
My RRA Match Trigger LPK($188) cost more then my Stripped RRA lower($145)...
Works real fine though...
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:04:16 PM EST
Stag lpk's are not junk. I use them in all my builds, and have had no prob with them.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:13:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Anvil Arms LPKs - $65.00


+2

I've used Jon's lpk's in eight builds, IMHO, for the value, his are best.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:45:50 PM EST
I havent had any problems with DPMS' LPK's. There are a few horror stories on here about them but youll get that with all products. Go with a DPMS or an RRA kit and you wont regret it. I just ordered a DPMS kit off of the EE yesterday, 65.00 shipped.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:56:09 PM EST
I have used CMT, RRA and DPMS all a few times the only problems I have had were with a RRA. I had to smooth out the selector that had a big dent in it. It functioned fine after that. I would go with RRA or CMT. Neither is "better" than the other, just whatever you can find.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:35:55 PM EST
I would recommend going to Bill Springfield's website and buy a LPK with his trigger and hammer work already done. Great tactical trigger work.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:39:07 PM EST
I've used two DPMS kits with out a single problem with each pushing 2k rnds. The only manufacturer mentioned in this thread I'd refuse to use is RRA. They make only a hand full of of AR's compared to DPMS but if you keep an eye out on the trouble shooting section you'll notice that they are the most troublesome maker going. A few years back they had a lower parts breakage problem and their rep here stated he could not tell who made what part by the serial number because they didn't keep track of who's parts they used in what guns and had multible part suppliers. When talking RRA your talking about a company who for years "machined" their M4 feed ramps with a dremel tool. There have been people here complaining about Stag kits as of late but they generally have a good reputation.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:54:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By GearHead_1:

Originally Posted By RyanH:
Spend the extra 20 bucks and get a Stag or Rock River.

I mean no offense here. I like Stag rifles just fine, that said, I wouldn't spend an extra penny to get their LPK. Both of the Stag kits I've used in the past year required significantly more "hand fitting" than either the Rock River's or DPMS's that I've used. This may have a lot to do with the period in which I purchased these parts kits. It was right in the middle of the "I can't find a LPK" time frame of a few months ago. I've posted about the experiences I had with these kits and at the end of they day they ended up just fine but took some hammering, polishing and grinding (particularly on the disconnecter) to get there.

If I were handed any one of these kits I would use it and be happy, I just wouldn't spend more money to get the Stag over the others. Find any of these kits as inexpensively as you can find them and get to work.


You know, I kinda feel the same about the three Stag LPKs I received about two months ago. The two I installed had sloppy selectors. I had to swap and mix and mach lowers, selectors, and detents to find matches that didn't rattle like crazy.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 3:55:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By GearHead_1:

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
he post above is the very first I've heard of anything from Stag not being top-notch. Makes me wonder if there was actually something going on other than a problem with Stag parts not being to spec.

Like what? The builder? It's got to be the builder or the parts, right? I don't want to be overly defensive here and I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke up your skirt. I'm not going to tell you how knowledgeable or experienced I am. I'm not going to boast of the unbelievable numbers of rifles I've assembled or the awesome set of tools I own. I'm not going to tell you that you are guaranteed success when using a specific brand LPK and I won't tell you that my dad can beat up your dad.

It might be one of those things that you would have only believed if you had seen it. I wouldn't have commented on this had I not experienced it. I'll simply say that the disconnecter was bowl shaped in one kit (to the point that it would not fit in the trigger rail slot) and the secondary hammer hook on the other looked like a file with striations on it (it was that rough, no joke), it's disconnecter would hang. No upside down springs, no bolt catch/disconnecter spring mix up, just bad parts. These parts were pounded flat and ground/polished smooth, as I've already said, in the end they worked fine.

It's not uncommon on our site to see some automatically assume that the builder is the obvious problem in any given situation. Obviously at times that's the case, sometimes it's just exactly as claimed, no calipers, no micrometers or blue prints required to see the problem. If you have better luck using the search function than I do (I'm just a regular member with no long term back search capabilities) you'll see at least 3 other threads complaining of the same disconnecter problem I'm describing, 1 thread had pictures and several making the same claim. I commented in these threads also.

I've used Stag before with no issues, the two I got this year give me reason to make the comment that I did. I'll stand by that comment, I wouldn't pay more for Stag's LPK than I would for other brands. I didn't trash them, just called it according to what I've recently seen. I'm not trying to offend here, I'm simply saying that at times manufacturers send out junk parts even if the claim is mil-spec. They all do it. There are no Golden Cows and there certainly are others that have similar feelings with respect to seeing more sub-standard parts during the "I can't get parts" months. As far as the part of your post that says "much happier", I ask you much happier than using what? I've used inexpensive High Standard kits at times and been happy with the result. Is there a specific brand you recommend not using so as to be happy? So nuff' said, feel free to wonder away.
I was actually thinking something on the order of "is there some problem with the lowers you're using?" Or what's more likely, the tolerances on your lowers and the tolerances on your Stag LPKs stacked and gave you fit problems... Since you just said you had problems, I was just as vague with my pondering, but it was not my intention to suggest that you're all thumbs (that's actually my title, thanks ).

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:25:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By HP40:
I've used two DPMS kits with out a single problem with each pushing 2k rnds. The only manufacturer mentioned in this thread I'd refuse to use is RRA. They make only a hand full of of AR's compared to DPMS but if you keep an eye out on the trouble shooting section you'll notice that they are the most troublesome maker going. A few years back they had a lower parts breakage problem and their rep here stated he could not tell who made what part by the serial number because they didn't keep track of who's parts they used in what guns and had multible part suppliers. When talking RRA your talking about a company who for years "machined" their M4 feed ramps with a dremel tool. There have been people here complaining about Stag kits as of late but they generally have a good reputation.



still do!
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:37:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2009 5:38:10 AM EST by GearHead_1]

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
I was actually thinking something on the order of "is there some problem with the lowers you're using?" Or what's more likely, the tolerances on your lowers and the tolerances on your Stag LPKs stacked and gave you fit problems... Since you just said you had problems, I was just as vague with my pondering, but it was not my intention to suggest that you're all thumbs (that's actually my title, thanks ).


Wow, guess I read that one wrong. Must be a little touchy or something, sorry bout' that.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 9:20:28 AM EST
so let me get this striaght, you spend $200 for a stripped lower (abet it is SW) and want to but the cheapest LPK?

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:39:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:41:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
Originally Posted By HP40:
I've used two DPMS kits with out a single problem with each pushing 2k rnds. The only manufacturer mentioned in this thread I'd refuse to use is RRA. They make only a hand full of of AR's compared to DPMS but if you keep an eye out on the trouble shooting section you'll notice that they are the most troublesome maker going. A few years back they had a lower parts breakage problem and their rep here stated he could not tell who made what part by the serial number because they didn't keep track of who's parts they used in what guns and had multible part suppliers. When talking RRA your talking about a company who for years "machined" their M4 feed ramps with a dremel tool. There have been people here complaining about Stag kits as of late but they generally have a good reputation.



still do!


Does either of you have proof of this method? Actual proof that an employee actually used a Dremmel tool? Or is it supposition due to the way some of these mods look? I would certainly like to see any correspondence from RRA, any photographs, etc. that demonstrates that not only did the company add "M4 ramps" after installing the barrel, but that they did it with an inexpensive tool. My personal opinion, from looking at my own rifle? They used some tool to smooth the transition from the inside of the upper to the barrel extension's ramps. But since I don't have any facts to back up any theory on what tool they used, I'm not going to even begin to air what would be pure speculation.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:45:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Anvil Arms LPKs - $65.00


+1000


Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:13:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
Originally Posted By HP40:
I've used two DPMS kits with out a single problem with each pushing 2k rnds. The only manufacturer mentioned in this thread I'd refuse to use is RRA. They make only a hand full of of AR's compared to DPMS but if you keep an eye out on the trouble shooting section you'll notice that they are the most troublesome maker going. A few years back they had a lower parts breakage problem and their rep here stated he could not tell who made what part by the serial number because they didn't keep track of who's parts they used in what guns and had multible part suppliers. When talking RRA your talking about a company who for years "machined" their M4 feed ramps with a dremel tool. There have been people here complaining about Stag kits as of late but they generally have a good reputation.



still do!


Does either of you have proof of this method? Actual proof that an employee actually used a Dremmel tool? Or is it supposition due to the way some of these mods look? I would certainly like to see any correspondence from RRA, any photographs, etc. that demonstrates that not only did the company add "M4 ramps" after installing the barrel, but that they did it with an inexpensive tool. My personal opinion, from looking at my own rifle? They used some tool to smooth the transition from the inside of the upper to the barrel extension's ramps. But since I don't have any facts to back up any theory on what tool they used, I'm not going to even begin to air what would be pure speculation.


NO, to be honest i don't have actual proof. i do have 3 brand new (less than 2 weeks old) RRA uppers on a shelf beside me. there is NO uniformity in the "M4" ramps between the 3 of them. one of them has much deeper ramps and one of them has two different depths. on the third one i'm not sure i'd even call them M4 ramps.

the ramps were CLEARLY put in after the upper was assembled. they are all CLEARLY different. this would lead me to believe that they were put in by hand. when compared to the other uppers with M4 ramps i have on hand to look at (Bushy, Stag, YHM, LMT) these are by far the worst. do they still perform the intended function? i guess so. if these weren't put in with a dremel then what tool would you suggest was used to put them in? i'm not a tool guy, what else is out there that would fit in this tight spot and would make the grooves that we're talking about?

in the absence of ACTUAL proof i'll say "dremel like" M4 ramps.

i would rather not have them in there if this is what they are going to look like. one of the big things that RRA has going for them is Fit and Finish. sure, fit and finish don't make a weapon run any better but let's face it, it helps sell the gun.

i'm not bashing RRA, i have 3 new uppers in the house. i knew about the dremel thing before i ordered them, it didn't bother me enough to not order. just like i knew i would need to restake the gas key when they got here. i was correct and it did need to be restaked. RRA makes an attempt at it but there was nothing touching the screws. no big deal it took me two minutes to fix. i didn't order them for SHTF end of the world kind of stuff. i'm selling one, building another for my step son (his first rifle) and i'm going to put the third one up.


Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:14:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By RyanH:
Spend the extra 20 bucks and get a Stag or Rock River.



listen to this guy
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:19:02 PM EST

BTW i would say spend the money and get a good LPK. i've used many RRA LPK's and they have been problem free.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 12:36:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
I just purchased a stripped S&W MP15 receiver for $200.00. I was looking at the DPMS lower parts kit (about $50.00)... Any opinions? Good or bad?


Don't NY'ers need to buy pre-ban lowers?
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 1:28:42 PM EST
I recently, two or three months ago, purchased 5 Stag LPKs and have used two of them so far, on DTI lowers. I have zero issues or complaints about them. As a matter of fact, I couldn't believe how much smoother the triggers feel compared to the DTI and Bushmaster triggers I have on a couple of other ARs. I would rate the smoothness as on par with the Rock River two stage trigger I have on yet another lower.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 1:56:21 PM EST
Be careful with RRA LPK's of late. Many are coming without certain detents and springs, and some triggers and/or hammers are drilled out of spec / crooked.

I wouldn't put RRA above DPMS right now.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 2:02:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
I just purchased a stripped S&W MP15 receiver for $200.00. I was looking at the DPMS lower parts kit (about $50.00)... Any opinions? Good or bad?


Don't NY'ers need to buy pre-ban lowers?


No. They, like us in CT, can buy preban or postban lowers. On a postban lower the gun has to be AWB compliant - no threaded barrel/flash hider, no collapsible or folding stock and no bayonet lug. A preban lower would allow one to have all of those.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:04:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
I just purchased a stripped S&W MP15 receiver for $200.00. I was looking at the DPMS lower parts kit (about $50.00)... Any opinions? Good or bad?


Don't NY'ers need to buy pre-ban lowers?


I'm LEO...I fortunately can get my upper with a flash suppressor and have a collapsible stock
Some one also mentioned that why would I spend that kind of money on the stripped lower, then get a "cheap" parts kit. I don't want "cheap", I want a good INEXPENSIVE" kit. I think I might go with the Anvil Arms, Stag or RRA. The problem is just that I don't want any of those "sloppy" or ill-fitted parts.

Does anyone have an opinion on CMMG uppers?
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 5:33:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
I just purchased a stripped S&W MP15 receiver for $200.00. I was looking at the DPMS lower parts kit (about $50.00)... Any opinions? Good or bad?


Don't NY'ers need to buy pre-ban lowers?


I'm LEO...I fortunately can get my upper with a flash suppressor and have a collapsible stock
Some one also mentioned that why would I spend that kind of money on the stripped lower, then get a "cheap" parts kit. I don't want "cheap", I want a good INEXPENSIVE" kit. I think I might go with the Anvil Arms, Stag or RRA. The problem is just that I don't want any of those "sloppy" or ill-fitted parts.

Does anyone have an opinion on CMMG uppers?


I own a CMMG lightweight upper. It's served me well.

They don't get the love they did a couple of years ago but they're GTG.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:48:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By OyOfMidworld:
Originally Posted By GearHead_1:

Originally Posted By RyanH:
Spend the extra 20 bucks and get a Stag or Rock River.

I mean no offense here. I like Stag rifles just fine, that said, I wouldn't spend an extra penny to get their LPK. Both of the Stag kits I've used in the past year required significantly more "hand fitting" than either the Rock River's or DPMS's that I've used. This may have a lot to do with the period in which I purchased these parts kits. It was right in the middle of the "I can't find a LPK" time frame of a few months ago. I've posted about the experiences I had with these kits and at the end of they day they ended up just fine but took some hammering, polishing and grinding (particularly on the disconnecter) to get there.

If I were handed any one of these kits I would use it and be happy, I just wouldn't spend more money to get the Stag over the others. Find any of these kits as inexpensively as you can find them and get to work.


You know, I kinda feel the same about the three Stag LPKs I received about two months ago. The two I installed had sloppy selectors. I had to swap and mix and mach lowers, selectors, and detents to find matches that didn't rattle like crazy.


Same here. I did 2 builds with DPMS LPKs and have no complaints about them but my third build I used a Stag LPK and its selector was very loose compared my 2 builds with DPMS LPKs.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 12:11:13 AM EST
I know you'll be happy with CMMG uppers, as many people on this site are (I have three, all excellent fit/finish and problem free).

I bought a few of their LPK's, and they look exactly like the dozen or so DPMS kits I've built with (non-notched hammers, no forge stampings on trigger or hammer). Of the three CMMG LPK's, I've only installed one, and the trigger pull feels like crap. I could very well have gotten a shitty one I guess.

I'll stick with DPMS LPK's for non-notched hammer kits, and stick with RRA and DoubleStar for notched kits. I use non-notched for 22lr dedicated uppers, but other than that, I don't know if it matters in a centerfire AR.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 1:32:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
Originally Posted By HP40:
I've used two DPMS kits with out a single problem with each pushing 2k rnds. The only manufacturer mentioned in this thread I'd refuse to use is RRA. They make only a hand full of of AR's compared to DPMS but if you keep an eye out on the trouble shooting section you'll notice that they are the most troublesome maker going. A few years back they had a lower parts breakage problem and their rep here stated he could not tell who made what part by the serial number because they didn't keep track of who's parts they used in what guns and had multible part suppliers. When talking RRA your talking about a company who for years "machined" their M4 feed ramps with a dremel tool. There have been people here complaining about Stag kits as of late but they generally have a good reputation.



still do!


Does either of you have proof of this method? Actual proof that an employee actually used a Dremmel tool? Or is it supposition due to the way some of these mods look? I would certainly like to see any correspondence from RRA, any photographs, etc. that demonstrates that not only did the company add "M4 ramps" after installing the barrel, but that they did it with an inexpensive tool. My personal opinion, from looking at my own rifle? They used some tool to smooth the transition from the inside of the upper to the barrel extension's ramps. But since I don't have any facts to back up any theory on what tool they used, I'm not going to even begin to air what would be pure speculation.


NO, to be honest i don't have actual proof. i do have 3 brand new (less than 2 weeks old) RRA uppers on a shelf beside me. there is NO uniformity in the "M4" ramps between the 3 of them. one of them has much deeper ramps and one of them has two different depths. on the third one i'm not sure i'd even call them M4 ramps.

the ramps were CLEARLY put in after the upper was assembled. they are all CLEARLY different. this would lead me to believe that they were put in by hand. when compared to the other uppers with M4 ramps i have on hand to look at (Bushy, Stag, YHM, LMT) these are by far the worst. do they still perform the intended function? i guess so. if these weren't put in with a dremel then what tool would you suggest was used to put them in? i'm not a tool guy, what else is out there that would fit in this tight spot and would make the grooves that we're talking about?

in the absence of ACTUAL proof i'll say "dremel like" M4 ramps.

i would rather not have them in there if this is what they are going to look like. one of the big things that RRA has going for them is Fit and Finish. sure, fit and finish don't make a weapon run any better but let's face it, it helps sell the gun.

i'm not bashing RRA, i have 3 new uppers in the house. i knew about the dremel thing before i ordered them, it didn't bother me enough to not order. just like i knew i would need to restake the gas key when they got here. i was correct and it did need to be restaked. RRA makes an attempt at it but there was nothing touching the screws. no big deal it took me two minutes to fix. i didn't order them for SHTF end of the world kind of stuff. i'm selling one, building another for my step son (his first rifle) and i'm going to put the third one up.




Did they come directly from RRA?

Remember, it's not the machine it's the person running it that determines the quality it produces.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:11:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
Originally Posted By HP40:
I've used two DPMS kits with out a single problem with each pushing 2k rnds. The only manufacturer mentioned in this thread I'd refuse to use is RRA. They make only a hand full of of AR's compared to DPMS but if you keep an eye out on the trouble shooting section you'll notice that they are the most troublesome maker going. A few years back they had a lower parts breakage problem and their rep here stated he could not tell who made what part by the serial number because they didn't keep track of who's parts they used in what guns and had multible part suppliers. When talking RRA your talking about a company who for years "machined" their M4 feed ramps with a dremel tool. There have been people here complaining about Stag kits as of late but they generally have a good reputation.



still do!


Does either of you have proof of this method? Actual proof that an employee actually used a Dremmel tool? Or is it supposition due to the way some of these mods look? I would certainly like to see any correspondence from RRA, any photographs, etc. that demonstrates that not only did the company add "M4 ramps" after installing the barrel, but that they did it with an inexpensive tool. My personal opinion, from looking at my own rifle? They used some tool to smooth the transition from the inside of the upper to the barrel extension's ramps. But since I don't have any facts to back up any theory on what tool they used, I'm not going to even begin to air what would be pure speculation.


NO, to be honest i don't have actual proof. i do have 3 brand new (less than 2 weeks old) RRA uppers on a shelf beside me. there is NO uniformity in the "M4" ramps between the 3 of them. one of them has much deeper ramps and one of them has two different depths. on the third one i'm not sure i'd even call them M4 ramps.

the ramps were CLEARLY put in after the upper was assembled. they are all CLEARLY different. this would lead me to believe that they were put in by hand. when compared to the other uppers with M4 ramps i have on hand to look at (Bushy, Stag, YHM, LMT) these are by far the worst. do they still perform the intended function? i guess so. if these weren't put in with a dremel then what tool would you suggest was used to put them in? i'm not a tool guy, what else is out there that would fit in this tight spot and would make the grooves that we're talking about?

in the absence of ACTUAL proof i'll say "dremel like" M4 ramps.

i would rather not have them in there if this is what they are going to look like. one of the big things that RRA has going for them is Fit and Finish. sure, fit and finish don't make a weapon run any better but let's face it, it helps sell the gun.

i'm not bashing RRA, i have 3 new uppers in the house. i knew about the dremel thing before i ordered them, it didn't bother me enough to not order. just like i knew i would need to restake the gas key when they got here. i was correct and it did need to be restaked. RRA makes an attempt at it but there was nothing touching the screws. no big deal it took me two minutes to fix. i didn't order them for SHTF end of the world kind of stuff. i'm selling one, building another for my step son (his first rifle) and i'm going to put the third one up.




Did they come directly from RRA?

Remember, it's not the machine it's the person running it that determines the quality it produces.



yep, DIRECTLY from RRA.



Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:21:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
I just purchased a stripped S&W MP15 receiver for $200.00. I was looking at the DPMS lower parts kit (about $50.00)... Any opinions? Good or bad?


Don't NY'ers need to buy pre-ban lowers?


I'm LEO...I fortunately can get my upper with a flash suppressor and have a collapsible stock
Some one also mentioned that why would I spend that kind of money on the stripped lower, then get a "cheap" parts kit. I don't want "cheap", I want a good INEXPENSIVE" kit. I think I might go with the Anvil Arms, Stag or RRA. The problem is just that I don't want any of those "sloppy" or ill-fitted parts.

Does anyone have an opinion on CMMG uppers?


You're probably better off spending LESS on a stripped lower (get a YHM or Stag for $99) and spending MORE on a better LPK, 2 stage trigger, etc. That's where you'll FEEL the difference. A nice rollmark ain't gonna help you shoot any better...

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:11:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:16:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 3:17:39 AM EST by MSPRet]
I have used several Stag LPK's (and stripped lowers) and they all have been top notch. They also have had some of the best out of the box standard triggers that I have ever felt. I have NEVER had a problem with Stag....<><....:)
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:52:27 AM EST
I was talking to JC from JC weaponry about what LPK he was putting in my CAV lower. Here was his response.

Originally Posted JC:
I either use RRA, DPMS or Del-Ton.
Whoever ships to me first.

They are all essentially the same product form the same sources – TRUST ME, I’ve seen them all, and have met with them all in person at SHOT 08.
(not a single one of those kits is made by the sellers, but rather by mil-spec manufacturing shops around the country that have confidentiality agreements with the sellers.)







Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:44:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I was talking to JC from JC weaponry about what LPK he was putting in my CAV lower. Here was his response.

Originally Posted JC:
I either use RRA, DPMS or Del-Ton.
Whoever ships to me first.

They are all essentially the same product form the same sources – TRUST ME, I’ve seen them all, and have met with them all in person at SHOT 08.
(not a single one of those kits is made by the sellers, but rather by mil-spec manufacturing shops around the country that have confidentiality agreements with the sellers.)










I know many people say the same thing. But if you take a Stag, an RRA, and a DPMS kit and put the parts side by side, they are all different. The finish is different, the edges can be different, the stampings on them can be different, the degree of polish on the exposed metal surfaces can be different. I'm not saying that the same two or three companies don't make all the kits. But that doesn't mean they provide the same level of detail and quality to all the kits.

That would be like saying that a Fiero is is just as good as a Ferrari because they are both owned by the same company. Yes, this is a hypothetical example.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:01:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By RyanH:
Originally Posted By DBLTAPP:
Does anyone have an opinion on CMMG uppers?


I own a CMMG lightweight upper. It's served me well.

They don't get the love they did a couple of years ago but they're GTG.

I've got one of their 14.7 uppers, great piece of equiptment. I run a Sabre BCG an CH and I've never had a problem.

I don't understand the lack of love for them these days either, IMO they make a good product.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:04:17 AM EST
I've used stag and dpms kits. I'd use either again. The only difference I could tell was that the checking on the stag mag release button was deeper.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:11:16 AM EST
hell I have a RR upper and lower and I chose the DPMS over the RR.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:40:24 AM EST
I've used DPMS LPK's in the last 5 or 6 builds that I've done. I have yet to have a problem. I've seen the threads others have posted with issues, but I still haven't seen any. To each their own.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:37:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I was talking to JC from JC weaponry about what LPK he was putting in my CAV lower. Here was his response.

Originally Posted JC:
I either use RRA, DPMS or Del-Ton.
Whoever ships to me first.

They are all essentially the same product form the same sources – TRUST ME, I’ve seen them all, and have met with them all in person at SHOT 08.
(not a single one of those kits is made by the sellers, but rather by mil-spec manufacturing shops around the country that have confidentiality agreements with the sellers.)










I know many people say the same thing. But if you take a Stag, an RRA, and a DPMS kit and put the parts side by side, they are all different. The finish is different, the edges can be different, the stampings on them can be different, the degree of polish on the exposed metal surfaces can be different. I'm not saying that the same two or three companies don't make all the kits. But that doesn't mean they provide the same level of detail and quality to all the kits.

That would be like saying that a Fiero is is just as good as a Ferrari because they are both owned by the same company. Yes, this is a hypothetical example.
That's because different companies like Stag and Rock River get their parts from different manufacturers. Different batches of parts from the same manufacturer (the folks that actually produce the individual parts) can also be different in finish and polish, just due to having a different crew doing certain parts of the process.

When there is a fit issue, you MUST look at whether or not the part AND THE LOWER meet specs. "Tolerance stacking" is where two connected parts' dimensions may be within tolerance but in opposite directions, like a trigger that's at the wide end of acceptable going into a lower whose FCG space is on the narrow end of acceptable. This happens IN EVERY INDUSTRY, especially industries that have high production demands and with parts that are relatively inexpensive. Do YOU want to pay a machinist to mic every single dimension on every single trigger and maybe throw out a bunch of parts that will work for most people because they're not as close as he'd like to the "perfect" dimension?

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