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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/6/2005 12:06:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 12:44:55 AM EDT by Kalahnikid]
I have a Bushy and another on the way and was kicking around the idea of building a true beater gun, one that would be cheap and I could kick around and neglect and spraypaint with out care and not spend a lot of money on. It would be a range only gun.

What are the good/bad/ and ugly experiences with this product?

ETA: Yes I searched and read up on it. Also I want a Dissy kit and JT/Delton dont have them.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 2:44:52 AM EDT
I have experience with 2 Model 1 Sales kits....

On both kits, the gas keys were loose on both carriers. One was loose where after 100 rounds it was noticibly loose. The other was loose out of the box to the point where it rattled. The staking is poor.

One had an AR-15 carrier, the other had an "enhanced carrier" which has a shrouded firing pin area, and a little bit more meat at the rear.

Both LPK's were attrocious. Poor finish, crappy machining. They look pretty bad. After they got hit up with some brake cleaner, and the sludge they came with was removed, you could really see the poor quality of manufacture.

Handguards are the injected type, not the compression molded. So, if what I've heard is true, these will melt with enough rapid fire. They feel cheesy. But they work for most purposes.

Buttstocks were ok. Average quality. Like anything else. A2 stock came with a standard buffer in a package with dates going back to 1969. Must be some old surplus item (which is fine by me, at least its mil-spec). M4 style stock is ok too. No issues there.

Uppers are really nice. One is an A2, with the Cardinal Forge symbol. It's ok. The other has the Cerro Forge keyhole symbol and is a flattop. It is very nice. Well finished, well machined. Very good part.

The barrels are Shaws. They are very well parkerized. Well machined, very clean, very nice. Barrels are superb.

Charging handle is almost same quality as other brands, but the front hook part is indeed slightly shorter than "mil-spec" ones. This means you run the risk of the CH not grabbing onto that ledge of the carrier, and instead dragging on the gas key.

Overall, they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They are after all "kit" guns and as with any kit, they sometimes require some work or tinkering to make right. These rifles function fine and have had no issues feeding or ejecting. They are accurate as well.

You get what you pay for is a rule that applies here. M1S uppers are actually pretty decent. It is their botls, carriers, and LPK's that suck.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 2:45:11 AM EDT
I purchased a M1S kit for my first AR. I got a 16" M4gery with chrome lining. I did go with the A2 rear sight so that I could abuse it a little more. It is built on a Stag lower and other than some breakin the first 150-200 rds it has been 100% with GI mags and any shitty ammo I want to feed it. It loves WOLF. I built it to carry on my tractor and in my JEEP. So most of the finish is knocked off of it now. I personally put over 4000rds through the gun before my little brother bought it from me. To my knowledge the only parts replaced have been the gas rings. When I ordered the parts the rear takedown pin detent was missing. I made one out of a small piece of welding rod no big deal. I built this rifle before I spent a lot of time on this site so I did not know how bad the rep is for thier kits. But, from my experiance I would be most willing to do buisness with them again. YMMV
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:17:06 AM EDT
have a Model M4 upper. Good finish, good shooter, good price. It started as my designated abuse upper, now it has a permanent home on my Colt Sporter.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:28:35 AM EDT
I purchased some 9mm parts from them and had no problems.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 3:32:22 AM EDT
I built a 6.8mm SPC Carbine using their barrel and bolt. It is an accurate shooter, the finish is perfect, and over-all I have been extremely happy with its performance.

I'd buy from them again.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 4:59:46 AM EDT
My experience with my M1 barrel .... FWIW, hit the link ...

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 5:02:06 AM EDT
Have a shorty I use with my M16. It gets abused and I've had NO problems. I think there might be some difference in their products since they left IL and moved to TX.

From what I read, the complaints were from the "old" IL days. I'm quite happy with the service, product and price.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 5:11:24 AM EDT
Why buy a new kit for a beater rifle? Get the parts used off the E n’ E and save a few bucks.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:06:32 AM EDT
Canted FSB on my 20 in kit. Couldn't adjust it out. Barrel nut was so tight it galled and seized in the upper. After I broke a couple of teeth on the nut trying to get it off with my barrel wrench I decided to put an Aimpoint on. If I order another I'll tell them not to assemble the upper. Everything else works OK (4000+ rds through it now).
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:15:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 2:43:50 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]
I've had 3 uppers from M1. All worked OK. One of the bolt carriers was a bit rough at the rear end - it dinged up the buffer a bit until I realized and skimmed over the offending part with a file. The kits seem to offer exceptional value.

And then there's the smell .
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:45:26 AM EDT
I have a M4 like kit from them, I shoot only Wolf in it, I don't clean it much(every 2500 rounds or so), after around 15k the bolt failed, rr bolt still going. I'm getting just what I expected from a $550.00 AR15, there fit and finish is not up to Colts standards, I'm able to hit 8 inch plates with iron sights at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:37:35 AM EDT
I have one of their barrels; it's of decent enough quality. The only complaint I have about it is that they nickle/dime you to death on the barrels, but if you're lookin for a kit, you'll get everything you need. Which isn't such a great thing, since their LPKs are pretty much junk in my experience. YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:43:08 AM EDT
Whats wrong with their lpk? I can easily smooth up rough parts with a file.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:47:02 AM EDT
My 10.5" upper is from Model 1 Sales, and I have been very happy with it.

I had ONE failure to eject about 600 rounds with the completely stock set-up. At that point I added a crane O-ring and a heavy buffer, and it's been flawless so far (with at least another 500-600 rounds through it). Considering how much trouble people can have with the very short barrels, I'm pretty impressed.

The fit, finish, etc are also very nice - so in my one experience with M1S, I have been extremely satisfied.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 11:04:48 AM EDT
search the archives for a thread I started in September of last year. I think it ran through november or so.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 1:42:02 PM EDT
bought my upper from them...no problems.

Considering buying a whole kit from them.

No Expert
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 1:52:53 PM EDT
Check THIS link.

I think it took him 2 or 3 uppers to get it sorted out.

Link Posted: 9/6/2005 2:21:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Check THIS link.

I think it took him 2 or 3 uppers to get it sorted out.


But I want a Dissy!
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 2:37:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 2:41:12 PM EDT by CaptSchofield]
Three kits , a barrel, and a complete upper from when they were both in IL and TX. Excellent serviceand products! I have had a Colt HBAR from 1989 and a Bushmaster M-forgery. The model 1's are just as good and reliable. Below is a group from my Model 1, chrome lined, 16" 6.8 SPC with a 3X9 Leupold on top.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 2:46:43 PM EDT
mine was great except the trigger was creepy and rough as a back road. I got what I paid for.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:57:32 PM EDT
Anyone have pics of their gun?
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 10:01:01 PM EDT
Their "pieces" sure as hell aren't going to win any awards,
But M4 upper performs well...everything spec'ed out just fine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 12:16:48 AM EDT
My Model 1 6.8 spc kit gun looks great and operates great on an Ameetec lower. I've have no problems with it. I would buy from them again

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:21:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Anyone have pics of their gun?

was hoping someone would ask!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:27:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Anyone have pics of their gun?

16" 6.8mm SPC Carbine

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:53:04 AM EDT
Recently assembled their 16" dissy on a Stag lower. The only problems I had were caused by my overly aggresive reloads (My bad) & a brass catcher causing rounds not to clear the chamber (the ol' 'tater in the exhaust pipe!). Next time I'll start out with light bullets (55g Rem PLHP) at the lower-end of the power scale until the rough spots are worked-out. Did the "15 minute trigger job" on it & My '88 20" Colt SPII. (Best thing I ever did to Ol' Spike was to lighten the trigger pull after 8,000+ rounds) The last 300 rds through My new dissy have been flawless! My Son can consistantly Bump-Fire a 30 rd mag in one shot! (Break-in procedure?!?!), so I gave it to Him for a 21st Birthday present. Now I need to get a 24" stainless varmint fluted upper from them to put on Spike for more efficiently introducing ground squrrels to the "Red Mist"!
The Ol' Crew Chief
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:25:30 AM EDT
2 uppers, 1-16" and 1-20", both shoot better than I do and have run 100% to date.

(2200rds through the 16" and 630rds through the 20")

Shipping was fast, service was friendly and helpful. I plan to order from them again.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:59:39 PM EDT
Any more pics?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:30:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 11:30:49 AM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
I was just looking through a new (week or 2 old) Shotgun news and in J&T's ad, they had a dissipator upper. Might want to give them a call about it.

They have it on their site, just not in kit form, I guess.

HERE is the upper.

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