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Posted: 9/19/2004 5:17:26 PM EDT
Sorry if it has been asked. Advantages vs. disadvantages of a 2 stage trigger? I was planning on a RRA or bushmaster? Are they less reliable? Thanks for the expert advise.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:23:02 PM EDT
I'm also very interested in this question. I was thinking of getting a high power competition rifle and then just getting a different upper to throw on it for home defense. Would the two stage trigger be inappropriate for a tactical type rifle?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 5:41:49 PM EDT by VonFatman]
I can only speak from my personal experience.
I have Jewel two-stage triggers on my AR-15 (Colt) and AR-10.
The difference for me was groups. I dialed down the groupings
The Jewel is so smooth, it made a huge difference from the stock
triggers from Colt & Armalite.

I'm sold...but maybe I'm just interested one of those shooters who likes
tight groups?

As far a a tactical gun goes, when I pull back on the trigger I can feel the first stage and know when the gun is ready to pop....now, does it have enough pounds of pull after the first stage is set? I am not an expert. I imagine some would say you need heavy self-def. frigger.

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:41:00 PM EDT
With a longer overall pull length the 2 stage is a TINY TINY bit slower than a single stage trigger. Hammers are easier with a single stage... everything else the 2 stage is better.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:58:17 PM EDT
Two-stage triggers generally allow more accurate long-range shooting when actual shot position really matters. The first stage allows you to get to a position where you know that any more pressure will discharge the weapon, at that point, you can check your final sight position, hold your breath and increase the pressure on the trigger.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:02:13 PM EDT
I like a very light single stage, for hammers. The difference can be noticeable.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:17:52 PM EDT
two stages are generally less reliable... my friends RRA's two stage got all screwy in about 800rds... he's now using a single stage but has an LMT w/ KNS pins on the way... we'll see...

i've read one post of an LMT already getting differnet pull weights after only 400rds...

KAC's seem to have the least amount of problems but i'm sure there are some cases aswell...

i'm using a single stage and i'm ok with it... i would love to get a KAC and probubly will after I keep messing with my single stage... i have a RRA single stage and right now theres no grit and its very snappy... still heavy... but a good trigger...

i'm thinking of getting the KNS pins anyways though... keep everything in my trigger housing constant and reduce wear in my receiver...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:39:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 10:42:08 PM EDT by Another-Bill]

....now, does it have enough pounds of pull after the first stage is set?

The joy of the Jewell is that all of this is so EASY to adjust in the field for different types of shooting. I have a Jewell in my CMP service rifle and a JP single stage in my IPSC rifle and factory in my others. I had an Armalite 2 Stage Match trigger in an AR-10 I once owned and it wasn't too bad, the one I owned had no adjustments but it felt lighter than it's 4 3/4 lb pull weight. The JP is 2 3/4 lbs and there is little pratical adjustments once the Locktite sets in if at all, it isn't bad but it is what it is. The Jewell is SO adjustable, I can set the first stage untill it disapears and feels pretty much like a single stage. My Jewell is set at 4 3/4 lbs for service rifle events, but the first stage is a short 3 lbs and the final is an incredably crisp 1 3/4 lbs. The length of the first stage is even adjustable. I have had no problems at all with either but the JP was a bit of a bitch to adjust and Locktite to find the point when the Colt wasn't doubling. The Jewell was a pice of cake and I am not a gunsmith in any since of the word. Your mileage may vary.

Link Posted: 9/20/2004 2:49:42 AM EDT
I have a Knights Armament M-4 with factory 2 stage trigger. It is fairly light and I'm able to achive a good rate of fire. Also it is very accurate. I also have a JP adjustable single stage in my Olympic commando. It is very light and very fast. In short, 2 stage for accuracy, single stage for firepower.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:08:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 5:09:13 AM EDT by fc7mm]
bad: Theoretically less reliable, though there seem to be so many different designs now that I do not know if that is true of all of them
good: easier to shoot particularly off a bench or prone
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:15:37 AM EDT
I dunno about the reliability thing, my M1 Garand has one. They all did and its one nice trigger for a combat instrument.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:16:46 AM EDT
I have an Armalite 2-stage in my Colt lower, buddies have RRA 2-stages in the RRA lowers. Between the 3 of us, we have attended about 8 carbine/rifle courses. No issues with the 2-stage triggers. All are 100% reliable. I have to disagree with the poster's assertion that they are slower. Actually, with practice, our split times are faster with the 2-stage triggers.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:44:23 PM EDT
Who's got jewel 2 stage triggers for sale and at a decent price? Anyone?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 12:57:25 AM EDT
I have a Bushmaster XM15 E2S Varminter with the Single Trigger & 4Lb trigger pull. The difference between shooting the BM and the Oly with a Stock Trigger is very noticable in my groups. I also recover from each shot quicker. I wondered if this was in part because of the heavier upper so I switched uppers. I still recovered quicker with the lighter trigger. Of all my rifles, the most accurate is my Savage Model 12 FVSS chambered in .223 Rem with the AcuTrigger set at 1.77 Lbs. That's as low as I could go on it. I'm so sold on a light trigger, I want to switch out all my triggers. I had considered buying a Jewell before I purchased this Varminter. I'm kinda glad I didn't now.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:04:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By black_heart:
I have a Bushmaster XM15 E2S Varminter with the Single Trigger & 4Lb trigger pull. The difference between shooting the BM and the Oly with a Stock Trigger is very noticable in my groups.

The Bushy Varminter comes with Bushmasters 2 Stage trigger. Did you swap it out for a single stage?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:15:56 AM EDT
I've got a varminter with the Bushmaster 2 stage trigger. It's got a very short first stage pull, unlike a RRA I tried yesterday, the first stage takeup was too long for my taste. I've got a Colt with a 2 1/4 # JP single stage which is more to my liking.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:38:20 AM EDT
I love my Bushmaster Varminter but I hated the trigger. Now there is Jewell in it and there is a world of difference. If you want to try a Bushmaster 2 stage trigger let me have your address and I will send it to you FREE. No joke, I am not selling anything, It is no use to me.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:44:00 AM EDT
Oh Yea.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:57:19 AM EDT
A lot of good info here, but you first need to experience what a 2-stage trigger feels like. The main reason for having one is for precision supported shooting as in a match. I would also think snipers woud appreciate a good 2 stager. Jewel and Milazzo-Krieger 2 stagers are currently the best you can get. Since they are intended to be used as match triggers, their advantages may not be obvious if you just need to fire quickly at close range. Some responses have said that 2-stage triggers are unreliable or go out of adjustment. Well, some of the less expensive ones might go out of adjustment. But, inherently the 2 stage triggers are a safer trigger. I mean that in the NRA sense of the word - they use MORE sear engagement than single stagers, not less! Therefore, if you want to isolate just one of the qualities of this trigger you would have to say it is a SAFER trigger because of the greater positive sear engagement. Wear is much less likely than a single stage trigger that has been gunsmithed for a crisp (creep free) release. Adjustments in an adjustable 2-stage may change, but it is not because of wear, but because someone did not know how to adjust it in the first place and/or forgot the lock-tite. Finally, all this is b.s. until you go out and use one at the range at 300 yards or more.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:29:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jar3ds:
two stages are generally less reliable... my friends RRA's two stage got all screwy in about 800rds... he's now using a single stage but has an LMT w/ KNS pins on the way... we'll see.

Well this is my trigger he is talking about...and yes it went screwy for a while, tons of different problems...2 nights ago i put my KNS pins in that trigger that i was saving for the LMT...and to my suprise the RRA two stage was back to perfection, after 3 months of hell i got my baby back.

For any one thinking of using a 2 stage I would suggest a set of KNS pins...and Denny is the guy to get them from.

Matt Carper
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