Just built my first AR pistol.  I know the magpul ones are fine to use but what about the Fortis shift short angled grip and ones from various over manufacturers?

I'm pretty sure the fortis one is GTG.
For others check out Fleabay,just put in angled fore grip a it will bring up to many to count.
They have ones from all the major brands like Seekins,Strike Industries and Fortis and many others.
They also have the knock off versions of those brands for under 20 bucks if you don't want to spend the money for the name brands.

I was looking at them on ebay this morning.  I would guess the cheapies don't come with a magic letter.

Ya that's pretty much a given.

Is there an actual "opinion" from the ATF about angled grips?

I'm thinking of throwing the question into the GD sewer and see what floats to the top.

I don't remember where but I think I read that it's a certain angle less than 90 degrees from the rail.

ETA: found it.Its doesn't give an exact angle but here it is.

Attached File


Third paragrapher in the letter.

That's what I wanted.

Thanks.

seems any mounted grip forward of the magazine that is Angled and NOT 90 degrees is GTG by the 3 letter agency

interesting - what if someone had an angled full length grip that attached to the middle of a buffer tube?

Who makes a 87° angled grip

Give me a protractor,bandsaw,dremel tool and a 2x4 and I'll whip you one right up.

I've been wondering if the Fortis Shift forward grip was kosher, not the short one but the longer one that looks like a VFG but is angled slightly and not at 90 degrees. I don't want to send any letters to the ATF and don't want to be a guinea pig either.

I hate the Magpul MLOK AFG so I had to do some dremeling to make an 11 slot MLOK picatinny rail work on my Aero Gen 2 7" rail that only has 2.5 slots so I could use a Magpul AFG2 which is much better.

So if the rule is 90 degrees then technically the BCM shorty would be legal wouldn't it? If you look at them they have a slight angel to them.

In my opinion they should give an angle and a length for a forward grip.
To me the BMC STUBBY is really to short to be used as a forward grip,it's more like a handstop.

One rub with those is BCM markets them as a "VFG" by name, so it's not so crystal clear IMO.

My best-guess metric for it being ok or not on a pistol, based on looking at the designs of all the angled fore grips the ATF has approval letters for, is based on whether the grip's design allows one to completely wrap their whole hand and thumb around and behind the grip.  That grip design, based on the traditional "VFG" style of grip, has no approved letters to my knowledge.  This design would include items like the BCM products or the Fortis Shift:




On the other hand, an angled fore grip is designed for the user to, essentially, still wrap the off-hand around or "cup" the axis of the barrel.  All the approved AFG's have this in common:





Ultimately, this is still a bit of a grey area.  The ATF has approved certain items, but hasn't really issued a definitive statement on the metric they use for the approval outside of the legal definition of a pistol, which does read "a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)".  So to me, having a second "short stock (grip)" designed to the gripped BOTH "at an angle (to the bore)" AND "extending below the line of the bore" is the disqualifier.  

A VFG designed for the full wrap-around type grip shown above would easily fit both of those points, hence they are no-go.  However I guess you could argue that an AFG grips at an angle to the bore, but it might not really extend below the line of the bore because in essence the hand is still wrapping around the barrel, there's just a sort of swell or added girth to the grip compared to just a bare fore-arm.

Makes sense, thanks for the input.  Maybe I just need to SBR mine.

Slightly off topic, but close enough to not warrant a whole other thread.  Do you think those finger grooved magwell wraps would be considered a vertical grip on a pistol AR? I couldn't find any info on it. They DO extend in front of the magwell, on the front. They ARE more or less perpendicular to the bore. Saw one on an AR pistol last weekend, at the local range.

EDIT:   I found the answer. It's OK, according to the ATF.

I mean in their words it specifically says 90 degrees. The bcm stubby isn't 90 but what would the length cut off be? Hand stops and stuff at mostly 90 degrees but super short.

True, but that is just their "interpretation" of vertical fore grip, which is not defined explicitly in the law.  As we all know, the ATF can and has changed their "interpretations" in the past.

In fact it's a bit moot because the law doesn't even mention the term "vertical fore grip" in the definition of a pistol, it just mentions being gripped with one hand on a short stock extending below the line of the bore.  The ATF at some point decided that a second fore grip = designed to be held by two hands:  https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download

"ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. "

I agree that it's not explicit, and it's probably worth a well written but simple letter to the tech branch asking about a product like the BCM grip because it would seem to not meet the ATF's current interpretation of 90 degrees = VFG.  In my honest opinion, I don't really see how the ATF comes to the conclusion that adding a VFG = designed to be held with two hands, but adding a AFG = ...not designed to be held with two hands?  I mean it has the word grip in the name?  Not that I'm complaining but there's not much logical sense in their determination IMO.