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Posted: 10/7/2004 7:53:14 AM EST
So I was at the range yesterday shootin one of my AR's. I was on a budget yesterday and picked up some ULTRAMAX AMMUNITION at 9 bucks for a box of 50. The guy behind the counter assured me that this ammunition is "safe" and reliable to use. So there I was, shooting a bolwing ball at about a hundred yards when it happened.... and explosion/fire/sparks/mis-feed/and cursing the counter boy. One of these so'called safe reliable reloads had split in two and left the front half of the round stuck in the chamber, the back half, jammed between the top of the bolt and the gas tube. What a sight, what a scare. No dammage was done to the gun, but my pride was somewhat tainted by this ammunition. I got home and called ultramax told them what happened. They said they would love to see the round, refunded me for a couple of boxes of ammo and sent me a box to mail it back to them in. I figured before I'd mail it off I'll take a picture to show all of you.

So, here ya go! for some reason the picture seems to want to be about 3 megs nomatter what size I make it, if you cant see it just imagine a 223 shell broken in half and the trauma it must have caused me...sigh
maybe if someone could fix my picture probelem and post it for me that would be great too!



Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:19:08 AM EST
Amazing. I wouldn't send the shell back to them unless you absolutely know for the sure the matter is going to end at that point. They're not going to doing anything about it unless they uncover something serious. Glad to hear no one was hurt.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:20:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 8:21:47 AM EST by u-baddog]
That sucks !
Is it reloaded brass ?

Did you have a pic of the halfs looking down and to the side so we could see the inside of the case?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:34:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 1:28:40 PM EST by El_Roto]
I'm glad you weren't hurt.


Now, repeat after me:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!

Counter Guys DON'T KNOW SHIT!


If you do get those extra boxes of ammo, don't shoot them, whatever you do.

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:42:53 AM EST
Hmm...

I've never had that happen with WOLF

And WOLF is alot cheper than $9/50
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:07:31 AM EST
I would / do use wolf. I don't think I would try reloads. Maybe new brass hand loads, but I don't have a set of brass ones to try reloads.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:11:10 AM EST
That happens to me occasionally with my handloads. Thin case + hot charge = broken case. Doesn't happen often with LC brass (Unless it is on its 10th or 15th reloading) Nothing to worry about. Just use a case extractor and forget about it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:42:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:21:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:25:30 PM EST
pmc and winchester white box is cheaper or right at that price for new ammo and not reloads


Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Hmm...

I've never had that happen with WOLF

And WOLF is alot cheper than $9/50

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:31:23 PM EST
For you folks you can't tell the difference between cheap ammo and inexpensive ammo, I've changed the tricky word in my original post. I hope it helps.

Thank you brouhaha for singling out the culprit of this failure. It's as if it was staring us in the face the whole time...


Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:54:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 1:56:14 PM EST by WIgunnut]
I myself have seen this happen before..but it was with New Remington .308 rounds being fed through my buddies cetme. Had a gunsmith try telling me it was a result of the fluted chamber in the cetme rifles that was cutting casings...I think its more like some manufacturers are either running thinner brass or selling reloads as new...either way it cant be safe.
Also have seen PCA SPECTRUM polymer cased ammo do the same





"Ill Take Mind Over Matter Anytime,...Unless Of Course Matter Is Well Directed Firepower"
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:05:51 PM EST
this company is basicly doing factory reloads? What is the headstamp? Do I remember correctly that Federal makes more than one type of .223 brass with the .223 Eagle boxed ammo haveing less case wall thickness or some such thing?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:10:03 PM EST
Wow Thats is very very strange. Ive shot probably over 1000 rds of Ultramax thru my Bushy and I never had a single problem. Its $30 a box of 150 at Dicks sports. Well if youre tainted then now you can goto ammoman.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:04:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 5:38:13 PM EST by El_Roto]
$30/150 rounds = $200/1K rounds! Why would anyone buy this crap when you can get XM193/Q3131A from Ammoman delivered for the same amount?! I could see someone taking a chance on it if it was 7 cents a round, but please!
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:14:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
$30/150 rounds = $200/1K rounds! Why would anyone buy this crap when you can get XM193/Q3131A from Ammoman delivered! for the same amount?! I could see someone taking a chance on it if it was 7 cents a round, but please!



Honestly I wouldn't even buy it at 7 cents per round. Not worth it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:37:12 PM EST
Don't get me wrong: it wouldn't be a smart chance, but I could see it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:57:27 PM EST
What is this "ammoman" is it a company, or a user here on AR15.com, you could imagine my hesitation from buying ammunition from this same company, and being that i'm a budget shooter i would defenatly be interested in some "cheaper" "safer" rounds. And as to who asked if they were reloads, yes there store bought reloads from ultramax, i'm not sure of headstamp.

I dont think i would buy wolf, this is comming from me the same guy who bought ultramax

... but wolf uses steel casings and that can spell trouble for chambering. I talked to a guy here in town who ruined his class 3 using wolf, the steel doesnt give well if there's some sort of dirt or junk in the way when it loads. A brass case will scratch and 'absorb' for lack of better terms, the grime that it crashes into on the way to the chamber. He was shooting a full auto uzi, as we all know the uzi style gun is slam-fire so when the steel case round went in the chamber it wasnt fully seated due to the dirt or crud or whatever . The steel case wasnt able to sit correctly when the bolt said its time to fire and "whammo" The reciever split right by the barrel, due to the round only being partaly loaded when it fired. The case exploded, reciever blew apart, gun destroyed. He had to get it welded and kind-a ruined the value of his somewhat expensive gun. but it could have been due to him not cleaning it either...............whoops

Now for my take on it... if your shooting a 3000 dollar gun why would you use the cheapest ammo you can find i dont know, I guess you always get what you pay for. Shooting a 600 dollar ar and a 3k class 3 are two different balls of wax, but I dont know. just my thoughts.

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:18:54 PM EST
Ultramax blows up ANOTHER gun. Why do people keep shooting this stuff?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:40:36 PM EST
I've had that happen once with PMP .223 out of a 20" Colt HBAR.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:43:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Ultramax blows up ANOTHER gun. Why do people keep shooting this stuff?



Well no one told me that it was just gold colored dynomite...geeze people live and learn i guess
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:45:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
Well no one told me that it was just gold colored dynomite...geeze people live and learn i guess



Yep. It just keeps showing up in blown up guns..... all too common.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:47:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:55:09 PM EST by El_Roto]

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
What is this "ammoman" is it a company, or a user here on AR15.com



You've been here since 2001 and you haven't heard of Ammoman?

I'm going to bed.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:47:57 PM EST
I would never use Ultramax or American Ammunition or any of the other dodgy brands.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:05:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
What is this "ammoman" is it a company, or a user here on AR15.com



www.ammoman.com
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:41:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:

You've been here since 2001 and you haven't heard of Ammoman?

I'm going to bed.



sorry guy never heard of it. Sounded familiar but the way everyone was talking made it sound like some member that sells ammunition here on the boards. And yea, i've been here since 01 and then some. I used to have a membership back in the day when it was an all black banner with the gold ar15------------------and a CAR across the top...i'd say probably 99 is when i signed up the first time, i went to log on one day and it didnt work....so here I am, new name...same o'll guy.

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 8:52:54 PM EST
I thought of getting some Ultramax, I mean how many bad rounds vs good?
Dosen't everyone experience a bad round after you shoot so many thousands of rounds. No way to determine good bad ratio is there?
I mean if this is the 2nd time this same brand ammo has screwed you, sure try something else.
I'm pretty sure mishaps have occured with all ammo, cheap and good.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:08:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
I'm glad you weren't hurt.

Now, repeat after me:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!

Counter Guys DON'T KNOW SHIT!




hell i work at a range and i tell everyone not to buy reloads. i swear by "you get what you pay for"
you paid 700+ for the gun and you cant afford the ammo??? Also how much is ammo where your at?? i pay 9 bucks for a 50rnd box of winchester FMJ. Never had a problem with it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:11:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By WIgunnut:
I myself have seen this happen before..but it was with New Remington .308 rounds being fed through my buddies cetme. Had a gunsmith try telling me it was a result of the fluted chamber in the cetme rifles that was cutting casings...I think its more like some manufacturers are either running thinner brass or selling reloads as new...either way it cant be safe.
Also have seen PCA SPECTRUM polymer cased ammo do the same



"Ill Take Mind Over Matter Anytime,...Unless Of Course Matter Is Well Directed Firepower"



I tryed the PCA Spec before, 2 boxes got me 3 jams and 6 broken shells. never again.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:38:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By SFR:

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
I'm glad you weren't hurt.

Now, repeat after me:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!

Counter Guys DON'T KNOW SHIT!




hell i work at a range and i tell everyone not to buy reloads. i swear by "you get what you pay for"
you paid 700+ for the gun and you cant afford the ammo???

Also how much is ammo where your at?? i pay 9 bucks for a 50rnd box of winchester FMJ. Never had a problem with it.



there's a difference between budget and "to broke to afford" ammo. If it makes you feel any better i'm placing an order for 219 dollars at AMMOMAN.COM that'll buy me a few days or so at the range. and ammunition seems to be pretty expensive here too! I dont know what makes it so much but great falls is the worst place to buy guns-n-ammo..........not the magazine

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:08:43 PM EST
What was the headstamp on the case and the lot number on the box?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:32:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skintop911:
What was the headstamp on the case and the lot number on the box?



LC 02 and lot number was 047410514
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:02:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:26:19 PM EST
so....when my free ammo comes in what should i do with it then? hmmmmmmm
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:45:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
so....when my free ammo comes in what should i do with it then? hmmmmmmm



Pull the bullets, and send them to me.

Pitch the powder and cases.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:51:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By ggllggll:

I dont think i would buy wolf, this is comming from me the same guy who bought ultramax




I think 9 out of 10 folks here would have taken the Wolf.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:17:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
I'm glad you weren't hurt.


Now, repeat after me:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!





I like Black Hills Remanufactured ammo. It is good stuff.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:27:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
$30/150 rounds = $200/1K rounds! Why would anyone buy this crap when you can get XM193/Q3131A from Ammoman delivered for the same amount?! I could see someone taking a chance on it if it was 7 cents a round, but please!



Thats an excellent point but ya see I liveIN NJ and AMMOMAN cant deliver in NJ. Fortunately His warehouse is 10 mins from my house so I get ALL my ammo from him at a AWESOME price :)
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:06:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeffersonS:

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
I'm glad you weren't hurt.


Now, repeat after me:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!





I like Black Hills Remanufactured ammo. It is good stuff.



Black Hills Reman isn't the same as reloads. Not even close.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:08:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrMurphy:

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
$30/150 rounds = $200/1K rounds! Why would anyone buy this crap when you can get XM193/Q3131A from Ammoman delivered for the same amount?! I could see someone taking a chance on it if it was 7 cents a round, but please!



Thats an excellent point but ya see I liveIN NJ and AMMOMAN cant deliver in NJ. Fortunately His warehouse is 10 mins from my house so I get ALL my ammo from him at a AWESOME price :)


You make me sooooooo JEALOUS!
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:05:21 AM EST
Whats a Black hills reman? Is it like special match ammo or somthing? Handloads?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:35:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By SFR:

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
I'm glad you weren't hurt.

Now, repeat after me:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!

Counter Guys DON'T KNOW SHIT!




hell i work at a range and i tell everyone not to buy reloads. i swear by "you get what you pay for"
you paid 700+ for the gun and you cant afford the ammo??? how


I assume when you say "reloads" you are referring to "remanufactured" ammo which includes Ultramax. True, Ultramax costs pretty much the same as Q3131A, XM193, and SS109 from ammoman.com, and I think it is safe to say that many of the members here swear by these rounds. Seeing you pay $9 for 50 rounds, you obviously prefer a cheaper ammunition than any of those listed above including Ultramax. Also, since you "swear by ""you get what you pay for""" I'm surprised you don't shoot remanufactured ammunition or reccommend it to people at the range because it costs more than what you shoot. Also, many members here buy wolf ammo and it is by far cheaper than surplus. Seams that "you get what you pay for" may not hold true for .223 ammo. ggllggll may have simply gotten a bad batch of Ultramax, which occurs from time to time with most every ammo maker. I have about 300 rounds of Ultramax with headstamp LC 00 on the case and the first 200 went off without a hitch. Possibly the LC 02 cases are different. Anyway, you guys make it hard to want to put the last 300 through my new Colt although I have been pleased with the ammo so far. Seems like a form of "ammo terrorism" to me!
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 3:07:01 PM EST
two words....

dont do it

well...okay that was three.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 3:35:42 PM EST
Should I add Ultramax to the ammunition review thread just for record keeping purposes?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:24:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 4:25:56 AM EST by gilfrd]

Originally Posted By El_Roto:

Reloads are NOT WORTH IT!

I agree with the below statements but the above statement is completely inaccurate.

1. Reloads ARE worth it, why do you think so many people reload?

2. I'll put my reloads against anything you have and my ammo will be more accurate than yours whatever the brand or caliber, guaranteed!

3. Reloaders have much more sex with women than non-reloaders.


Don't put CRAP AMMO in a GOOD WEAPON!

Counter Guys DON'T KNOW SHIT!




Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:22:28 AM EST
Well i'm a 12 ga. realoader........when exactly can i expect to see the benefits of #3?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:47:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Should I add Ultramax to the ammunition review thread just for record keeping purposes?



I for one would be interested to see this if it's not too much trouble. Hopefully only people with personal experience reply to it, rather than from just heresay.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:07:06 AM EST
Well I got my package from UltraMax today. They really held true to thier word. I get one box of 50, 55 gr FMJ "REMANUFACTURED" ammo. I'm not so sure I'll use them; based on my previous experiance....read the first post... I would however like to say that even if the company makes questionable ammunition, there personal assistance is top notch. maybe I'll just take the rounds to work and run em through a 249 just to see what happens.

Thanks for all the great posts!
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:08:47 PM EST
Ive had that same thing happen to me about a year ago with black hills blue box 69grn stuff. Brass was LC 02. Didnt do any damage to the gun...never had any other problems with it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 1:26:30 PM EST
ok...put me infront of a shot gun reloader and i'll go to town, but honestly I dont have a clue when it comes to reloading brass. What is "LC" and what are the numbers that follow?

HELP
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:24:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 5:41:38 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
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