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Posted: 12/16/2009 8:56:46 PM EDT
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.



You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:00:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:00:38 PM EDT
[#2]
how does the buffer tube look where it got locked into position? magpul will fix it for you iwouldnt worry
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:03:42 PM EDT
[#3]
wow...thats kind of troubling if true...
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:06:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Magpul is 100% on standing behind their goods but that does bring into question the strength of that pin.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Magpul is 100% on standing behind their goods but that does bring into question the strength of that pin.


Yeah I have heard good things in the past, but maybe it brings to light a weakness in the design. The pin cracked near the top edge where the metal is the thinnest(you can sort of see it in the pic), maybe just a bad pin?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:11:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.


That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:11:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


The failure was the fact that it fell "4ft butt first onto concrete" No wonder a pin bent that is a lot of force and something will give at the weakest point.

Magpul stuff has always been rugged and will stand up to abuse but a 4ft drop is not normal use.

I hope they try and help but prepare to buy another stock is my suggestion.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:15:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


The failure was the fact that it fell "4ft butt first onto concrete" No wonder a pin bent that is a lot of force and something will give at the weakest point.

Magpul stuff has always been rugged and will stand up to abuse but a 4ft drop is not normal use.

I hope they try and help but prepare to buy another stock is my suggestion.


So I can't drop my rifle from a standing position?

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:16:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


The failure was the fact that it fell "4ft butt first onto concrete" No wonder a pin bent that is a lot of force and something will give at the weakest point.

Magpul stuff has always been rugged and will stand up to abuse but a 4ft drop is not normal use.

I hope they try and help but prepare to buy another stock is my suggestion.


Oh I agree, certainly not normal use for the normal civilian, but maybe normal use for someone in a .mil or LE setting. If magpul decides to replace it, I would be extremely happy. Not expecting that, but it would certainly encourage me to be a return customer.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:20:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


The failure was the fact that it fell "4ft butt first onto concrete" No wonder a pin bent that is a lot of force and something will give at the weakest point.

Magpul stuff has always been rugged and will stand up to abuse but a 4ft drop is not normal use.

I hope they try and help but prepare to buy another stock is my suggestion.


So I can't drop my rifle from a standing position?



I trash the crap out of my guns every week. I don't tend to let them fall 4ft ass first onto concrete. I try and hold onto them.

If I do fall and something breaks then I'll buy a new part not claim that this is a part failure. This is an operator failure.

Bumpers on cars are meant to withstand impacts too but if you think you wont have to replace your bumper you are expecting too much.

Next time I poll vault with my M-4 I'll let you know how it works out


ETA: To the OP re your last post. I agree, let them take a look at it. Field usage can help find flaws in product design and perhaps this they could find useful in their R and D.

Best of luck
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:21:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.


That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.



<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>

Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.

Ok, got it, let's go.

<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>


Ummm, no.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:33:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.


That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.


What difference does that make?  The pin is holding the stock in place in the extended position or the collapsed position.  So you can load, or overload, the pin either way.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:33:24 PM EDT
[#13]
It's a 4 ft. drop.  Kind of a no-brainer.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:43:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


The failure was the fact that it fell "4ft butt first onto concrete" No wonder a pin bent that is a lot of force and something will give at the weakest point.

Magpul stuff has always been rugged and will stand up to abuse but a 4ft drop is not normal use.

I hope they try and help but prepare to buy another stock is my suggestion.


So I can't drop my rifle from a standing position?



I trash the crap out of my guns every week. I don't tend to let them fall 4ft ass first onto concrete. I try and hold onto them.

If I do fall and something breaks then I'll buy a new part not claim that this is a part failure. This is an operator failure.

Bumpers on cars are meant to withstand impacts too but if you think you wont have to replace your bumper you are expecting too much.

Next time I poll vault with my M-4 I'll let you know how it works out


ETA: To the OP re your last post. I agree, let them take a look at it. Field usage can help find flaws in product design and perhaps this they could find useful in their R and D.

Best of luck



AP,

I agree that you should attempt to maintain control of your weapon at all times no matter the situation, however this stock breaking from a simple fall on concrete is totally unsat. Considering the background of the man who owns Magpul I would fall off my chair if he doesn't replace your stock with no questions asked. This gear is designed with the worst case scenario in mind...COMBAT. It certainly shouldn't be failing on some static range op no matter what happens.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:48:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Aside from the pin, does the remainder of the stock appear to be functional?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:49:17 PM EDT
[#16]
All I can say is OMFG!
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:51:34 PM EDT
[#17]
That is the problem with stocks designed around the carbine buffer tube. It doesn't matter how strong the stock body it because all of the force is transferred to that tiny pin which is the weak link in any carbine buffer tube based stock. I broke a VLTOR stock the same way, except the stock body cracked as well. The fact that the CTR stock body survived is a testament to Magpul's products. I replaced my broken VLTOR with a Magpul UBR since it is designed around a completely different system that is much stronger.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:53:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.


That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.


What difference does that make?  The pin is holding the stock in place in the extended position or the collapsed position.  So you can load, or overload, the pin either way.


You're right.  I didn't think that one all the way through.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:54:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I have seen a CTR that cracked at that location in the stock from a drop.  IIRC, Magpul claimed that their stocks pass this test.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:01:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Atleast it did'nt fall off... heh
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:15:43 PM EDT
[#21]
It is a Magpul. You are buying a name not magic.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:20:38 PM EDT
[#22]
At least the weapon was still operable.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:28:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
It's a 4 ft. drop.  Kind of a no-brainer.

I hope you mean a no-brainer that it should hold up.
If a computer can withstand it, my rifle sure as hell better!
Panasonic Toughbook

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 10:34:51 PM EDT
[#24]
After how much is said how the CTR is better than the MOE...looks like that fall wouldnt have incapacitated the MOE.I never liked a secondary outer lock for that reason..more exposed to damage.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 11:27:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
After how much is said how the CTR is better than the MOE...looks like that fall wouldnt have incapacitated the MOE.I never liked a secondary outer lock for that reason..more exposed to damage.


Given that the friction lock has nothing to do with the adjustment mechanism and is in no way connected to it, I think the same thing would have happened to an MOE.

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:07:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
After how much is said how the CTR is better than the MOE...looks like that fall wouldnt have incapacitated the MOE.I never liked a secondary outer lock for that reason..more exposed to damage.


Given that the friction lock has nothing to do with the adjustment mechanism and is in no way connected to it, I think the same thing would have happened to an MOE.



Long time, no see.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:26:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Very interesting thread. Let us know what Magpul does.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 2:11:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Tag for outcome and Magpul's response.  I love my CTRs.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 2:45:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


Dropping your carbine butt first on to a concrete pad doesn't count as a "failure"
Especially since the stock didn't break, the pin bent - hardly a shocker considering what happened.
Listen - everything on a gun can break.
Magpul makes outstanding products, but...metal & plastic are still metal & plastic.
Put enough stress on them in the right places and they will break.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 3:03:04 AM EDT
[#30]
If that pin was solid that wouldn't have happened. That stock should be able to take more abuse that just dropping it. In the real world if you needed to bush door or a head that just won't work especially if your life or the life of others depended on it.. A cheap $30 M4 can take more abuse than that.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 3:21:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.


That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.


Yup.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 3:42:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 8:05:14 AM EDT
[#33]
It appears to me that your CTR stock performed as designed.
The stock took an impact hard enough to break the mechanism,( nothing on planet earth is unbreakable), and still continued to function because of the friction lock.

I knocked a commercial collapser stocked rifle off a shooting bench, about the same four foot drop onto a concrete pad.
The impact broke the stock and bent the extension tube so bad the rifle was rendered inoperable.

I have since replaced all the stocks on my collapser stocked rifles with CTR stocks and Mil-Spec type VLTOR extension tubes.

I hope in a failure situation they work as well as yours did.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 8:20:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I purchased this CTR approximately a 6th months ago, and recently at the range I had my carbine fall approx 4 ft butt first onto concrete. The rifle continued to function, but upon return I realised the stock was jammed into position. I had to dissasemble the stock to get it off of the buffer tube. After disassembling, I found that the position pin had been bent and that caused the stock to jam into position. I emailed magpul a few days ago to see if anything could be done, but haven't heard anything in return.

Not trying to bash magpul at all btw, but I was curious if anyone has had similar failures.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/BuckeyeRifleman/MontanaPartDuex007.jpg?t=1261029519

You can see in the picture the position pin has been bent/broken.


Dropping your carbine butt first on to a concrete pad doesn't count as a "failure"
Especially since the stock didn't break, the pin bent - hardly a shocker considering what happened.
Listen - everything on a gun can break.
Magpul makes outstanding products, but...metal & plastic are still metal & plastic.
Put enough stress on them in the right places and they will break.


Woah there cowboy! No need to get all riled up.

Not saying I was suprised, but the pin bending does indicate something within the system failed, as the stock no longer continued operating properly. Was it a reasonable failure based on the fact it was outside the normal usage? Certainly. But it was indeed a "failure". The pin design(hollow with little metal on the lateral sides) does not bode well for high force impact in the opposite direction. Perhaps magpul will take this into consideration on future designs.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 8:21:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
If you email them you'll wait. If you had called them, you'd have a resolution already.

Pick up the phone. Email is not a good option with most dealers this time of year. Call them.


You can't send a picture over the phone.

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 8:28:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>

Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.

Ok, got it, let's go.

<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>


Ummm, no.

The theory is: you are already fucked. No sense in fucking yourself harder by not taking 1 second to collapse the stock before slamming it, in order to not break it and have a less effective long gun.

If you are actively being shot at you should have transitioned to your sidearm.

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 12:50:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Probably just bad luck/ just right fall.



I mortared the hell out of a guys rra stock with it open one day it collapsed the stock but didn't hurt anything

and it took a hell of a lot more impact than a 4ft drop would cause.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:00:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:05:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Justin, thank you for chiming in with the official word.  Can't wait to try out the UBR, and am glad to hear it's a stronger design.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:27:32 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?

Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.


That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.



<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>

Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.

Ok, got it, let's go.

<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>


Ummm, no.



Um...yes.

Same principle behind locking the bolt back when clearing a double feed.  It relieves tension from the entire mechanism making it easier to clear the double feed.

Collapsing the stock takes NO time at all and can be done while bringing the rifle into position to be mortared.  Its all a matter of training.

Items break, period, end of story.  The CTR design is not weak by any means.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:34:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Well, looks like the CTR performed exactly as designed and this type of damage is no surprise at all.  Most ANY stock will sustain SOME damage from a 4' drop onto concrete.
Since all products have to have a failure point somewhere we designed the CTR/MOE to fail first at the pin.  This way a bent pin will only prevent it from being adjusted but the stock will still remain usable to get you through the fight- better than the stock body breaking in two like in the video linked to earlier.  Higher drops will eventually crush the area around the pin (while still not destroying the stock) and eventually you'll 'blow the top' off finally rendering the stock useless.

Fully collapsing an M4 Carbine stock will increase its drop-strength as the pin has the most support in the receiver extension's first adjustment hole.

The UBR can sustain a higher drop than probably any other carbine stock since we abandoned the Colt-design M4 Carbine receiver extension / locking pin.  A load bearing pin in single shear is rarely a good idea...

BTW  even though this is not a product defect we'll still most likely warranty out that CTR.  Heck, we even once hooked up a soldier who dropped his CTR equipped M4 TWELVE feet off the top of an MRAP.  That stock did not survive...  



You guys are awesome! Seriously, you guys didn't have to warranty it out, I know it was way outside what was considered "normal usage". But thanks for your response and explination, that makes sense. From what it seems, it performed way better than the original M4 stock would have.

I will definately be buying more Magpul products(and stocks) in the future.

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 1:44:13 PM EDT
[#42]
This is Blasphemy.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 5:10:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:23:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
After how much is said how the CTR is better than the MOE...looks like that fall wouldnt have incapacitated the MOE.I never liked a secondary outer lock for that reason..more exposed to damage.


Given that the friction lock has nothing to do with the adjustment mechanism and is in no way connected to it, I think the same thing would have happened to an MOE.



Long time, no see.


It's good to be back.  

Link Posted: 12/18/2009 7:18:29 AM EDT
[#45]
I've mortared one many times without issue.  And I mean many as in over 12.  More like 30 or 40 times that day.  Without it being extended.  Tight chambers suck.  Started with bad dummy rounds, and continued with live rounds, maybe one out of every ten would get stuck hard enough I had to mortar it.  I didn't bother collapsing the stock and it held up fine.  The rubber got chewed up a bit since this was on gravel, but the stock itself held up fine as did the Vltor mil-spec tube.  Hard swings from about 2 feet height, the later ones even harder because I was pissed at that expensive, gas piston, POS rifle that wasn't working for shit.
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 9:23:36 AM EDT
[#46]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Nice.  Wonder how they hold up when you mortar a stuck casing out of the chamber?



Hopefully the UBR I just ordered holds up to a bit more abuse.




That's why you collapse the stock before you mortar it.






<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>



Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.



Ok, got it, let's go.



<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>





Ummm, no.





The only other option is your weapon no longer functions, so, ummm, yes.



 
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 12:55:57 AM EDT
[#47]



<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>

Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.

Ok, got it, let's go.

<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>


Ummm, no.



Ummm, long before you even think of trying to mortar that stuck round, if you are under fire you should have dropped the rifle and be pulling the trigger on your sidearm...

But I guess I am more concerned with stopping the guy shooting at me then I am with what I use to do it. I would rather transition to a sig with 13 rounds and try and get my ass out of trouble then sit there and hope I dont smash the stock and bend the tube which will render it even more useless, all the while someone is still shooting at me. But if your training has you clearing jams under fire while you have a useable firearm sitting idle, then go with what you know...

And FYI, when I collapse the CTR I have on my rifle, the stock itself is tight against the castle nut, so it will put the force against the nut into the receiver before it mashes into the pin.

Link Posted: 12/21/2009 4:34:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:



<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>

Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.

Ok, got it, let's go.

<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>


Ummm, no.



Ummm, long before you even think of trying to mortar that stuck round, if you are under fire you should have dropped the rifle and be pulling the trigger on your sidearm...

But I guess I am more concerned with stopping the guy shooting at me then I am with what I use to do it. I would rather transition to a sig with 13 rounds and try and get my ass out of trouble then sit there and hope I dont smash the stock and bend the tube which will render it even more useless, all the while someone is still shooting at me. But if your training has you clearing jams under fire while you have a useable firearm sitting idle, then go with what you know...

And FYI, when I collapse the CTR I have on my rifle, the stock itself is tight against the castle nut, so it will put the force against the nut into the receiver before it mashes into the pin.



^This^
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 6:09:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:



<ref's whistle>  Time out, time out called on the field. <ref's whistle>

Hold on guys, gimme a second to collaps this stock so I can clear a jam.

Ok, got it, let's go.

<ref's whistle> resume play <ref's whistle>


Ummm, no.



Ummm, long before you even think of trying to mortar that stuck round, if you are under fire you should have dropped the rifle and be pulling the trigger on your sidearm...

But I guess I am more concerned with stopping the guy shooting at me then I am with what I use to do it. I would rather transition to a sig with 13 rounds and try and get my ass out of trouble then sit there and hope I dont smash the stock and bend the tube which will render it even more useless, all the while someone is still shooting at me. But if your training has you clearing jams under fire while you have a useable firearm sitting idle, then go with what you know...

And FYI, when I collapse the CTR I have on my rifle, the stock itself is tight against the castle nut, so it will put the force against the nut into the receiver before it mashes into the pin.



Great.  So now you are bending your pin and cracking the stock at the opening.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 7:32:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Just in case semeone actually reads this deep into a thread, I made my comments based upon a competition environment.  I like many others here don't carry my AR in a warzone where transitioning to a sidearm is a valid course of action.
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